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  Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft 
 
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Wildwood Oct 08, 2003, 09:10am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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As I said in the thread regarding this topic, the staged theft is very plausable.

However, intimating that the opportunity to commit a crime is an excuse for the commission of the crime doesn't hold water.
But the fact that the opportunity is there, and therefore likely to happen, is a valid statement. For this reason the individuals who allowed the system to be invaded in this manner. As well as the one who allowed the code to be on an accessable system. Should both be held accountable.
But that's for Valve to decide.

The bittom line in this for me is that I'll be trying to make Halo fill the void until HL-2 is released. And I'm getting tired of waiting.



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Sander Sassen Oct 08, 2003, 12:46pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
Just let me add another comment. Even if this was a unfortunate breach of security one does wonder why they bring on the whole media circus and notify major news networks such CNN of their screwup. The only reason I can think of is that they're out to convince the general public they now have a legitimate excuse for delaying HalfLife 2 by no less than four months, which is utter nonsense in my opinion.

The game would probably not be launched before or after the holiday season anyway, and this simply buys them time. Regardless of the fact that a code leak will only mean recoding specific sections that are cheat sensitive and make sure any exploits are broken once the full game hits the market, this is a few weeks work at most. It is all a little convenient to my liking, and I think the Vivendi stockholders agree as their stock price has dropped considerably now that their next major cashcow has been delayed again.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Koen Kwak Oct 08, 2003, 01:21pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
Good point you got here Sander. Although I feel that the outcome is the same if this had not happened, everyone will play Half-life 2 no matter how long they will have to wait for it. Recent news on Half-Life 2 made the public warm for it's release and a "minor" setback like this won't make people forget about the game / screenshots / movies and stuff.

About cyberterrorism I got only 1 thing to say: If it doesn't belong to you then don't mess with it. Even excuses like "what if the door is open, can't I just check if there is someone home" are in my opinion wrong.

chas P Oct 08, 2003, 02:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
i hear that vivendi is in financial straits, and is looking to sell off some assets. The media circus is interesting since this kind of security breach is damaging to the overall image of the company.

i think it sounds more like a publicity stun than anything else. M$ will buy them out eventually anyways

Andres Oct 09, 2003, 07:55am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
What wonders me is how ATI will take this delay... They really seem to count on Valve to sell many of their new flagships. What use is a 600$ card if you have no game that uses it correctly? With STALKER due early next year and HL2 delayed, there is nothing that needs that kind of power before X-mas. That means a big sale down the drain for ATI. I can see lawsuits on the horizon.

(I myself planned to buy the 9800XT as a bundle with the new HL, but i won't accept a paper that says i can get the game as soon as it's out)

(Config in my Bio)
Doug Hazen Oct 10, 2003, 02:46am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
There's no motive for Valve to stage a theft. Saying they are looking for a scapegoat for the release date is BS. Look at Daikatana. People waited almost 5 years for that piece of crap (don't look at me!).

The other option is that an individual within the company either set it up, for whatever reason, or simply put it under public access, and let the word out.

Or, it simply was incompetence and piracy.

But teh questio remains, how do you steal over a gig? What was this, a T3 to T3 direct connect? Hardly. I can see 100 megs, maybe...


But then again....if it's a staged theft, how come the files have allegedly beem found on various servers?

And now Valve makes an anouncement....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/33260.html

Sigh...(again) wouldn't the smart thing to do be to release the game as early as possible?


Sander Sassen Oct 10, 2003, 03:11am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
Oh, the motive is there alright, the game was first to be introduced with the launch of ATi's 9800XT, that launch basically fell into the water at the last minute (http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1664/) which cost ATi a lot of money. ATi will start losing even more money when the game isn't bundled with the 9800XT and 9600XT during the holiday season and they might have a clause in their 6 million dollar agreement with ATi that says 'if the game isn't completed around Christmas we'll sue your pants off'.

Add to that the fact the investors, but certainly Vivendi's stockholders, are getting sick and tired of all the delays and would like a nice bonus prior to the end of fiscal year 2003. Valve needed an excuse why they couldn't get the game out of the door on time. They couldn't find one internally, no excuse would satisfy the stockholders as they've been promising left and right that it would be done in time. The only option they had left is some outside influence 'supposedly' setting them back by a few months, and thus the suggestion that Valve had a hand in the leak isn't that far fetched.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
chas P Oct 10, 2003, 09:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
Noticed they havent sued you guys for this piece of libel :D

makes your claims more credible :S

Wildwood Oct 11, 2003, 02:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
OK, now I'm just waiting for DOOM3. Or maybe the source code for that will slip out the door too. I now have no reason at all for a video card upgrade. Saves me more money to spend on Christmas presents anyway. Corporate games or not, the ATI deal does throw a new wrench into things. Maybe ATI will end up with the rights to HL-2 and make it work. That Radeon 9600XT/HL-2 bundle was gonna be a sweet deal. Guess that's out now.
Cyber terrorism is a very possible threat. Anyone who runs a server connected to the internet knows that no matter how secure your network is, it's still only as secure as it's users. All it takes is one bean counter with poor taste and downloading skills to bring in a trojan/virus/whatever. And BAM! You've been hacked. Any REAL hacker worth anything can script a trojan that won't immediately be recognized by your anti-virus/trojan software. So don't act like it can be prevented easily, or in all circumstances.
A game of CS anyone?


Koen Kwak Oct 13, 2003, 04:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
The story continues:

Playable version of Half-Life 2 stolen

"When hackers broke into the computing system of Valve Software, they stole more than just the source code to Half-Life 2. They also stole enough game maps and other components to put together a playable build of the game. Today, five days after the first leak, they have released that build."

Source CNN: http://money.cnn.com/2003/10/07/commentary/game_over/column_ga.../index.htm

Is this still part of the planned media attention in some of your eyes or does this news change your opinion totally and made you reconsider and figure out that you were wrong? I for one don't know what to believe, the stories about a "planned" release of sourcecode all sounded like it was indeed something valve came up with to get the deadline of the release into 2004 and not the end of 2003.

A playable version however changes my view on this, why would Valve ever do something like this. To get an ever bigger excuse for a late release? It doesn't sound logical anylonger.

Opinions please

Doug Hazen Oct 14, 2003, 12:56am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
First off, playable does not mean the "full version". I also want to stress that many hacking groups would enjoy taking credit for such a feat, even if they hadn't actually done it...and simply released snapshots of an early build.

And what of the actual release this build? I know earlier I mentioned that files have appeared on some servers...but I haven't seen any proof that A) Those files even contain the proper data, and aren't fakes. B) That they are a final build and not a beta. I haven't seen it. Have you? Has anyone?

BTW, I don't like this Chris Morris very much. And I also don't like the the guy who said:

"My focus would be on doing the thing that's going to make the game great: Focus on finishing it. ... The risk is they find out who did it and [the hacker is] a resident of Russia. Then there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Ultimately, we're in the business of making games, not chasing hackers."

It's ignorant stance for two reasons. The first is that, if you don't firmly address stolen copies of your product you're just going to be sealing your own fate economically. Saying, "just make games" doesn't work when you have no revenue.

Secondly, taking on such an opinion in those cases is like giving a free pass to fraud. It's like saying "don't investigate!" i.e: you might find out companies often create the illusion of stolen product ---- for whatever reasons.

Wildwood Oct 15, 2003, 06:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
Well the code is all over the net. Along with unfinished playable maps. And even sites dedicated to line commands for running it. I'm not going to post a link to the code. But I will post links to instruction sites:

http://www.skullknight.com/uploads/files/

http://207.6.175.83/hl2faq.php

That's plenty to wet the appetite.


Corvus Raven Jan 17, 2004, 02:28pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Cyber terrorism, Valve and Microsoft
I think it is stupid to have placed the code within reach of the outside.
Sounds more like an unsecured windoze machine. I can't see a *nix machine lacking so much.

So I would have to agree that it is just an excuse.. becuase Valve didn't try very hard to prevent such an event.

--------------------------
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AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
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