Hardware enthusiasts are extremely useful to the advance of the hardware (and software BTW). A site called Hardware Analysis should give them even more respect than others. But even if you don't like and respect them, please at least respect the truth - which you are not doing here: obviously most of your stories are full invented, I know many hardware enthusiasts, you will find very little, or even not a single one, as stupid and dishonest as you are painting them.

I already replied to the same scorn to average people by some less-than-average arrogant ones, in "Failures invented by incompetent IT staff" (http://zdnet.com.com/5208-1105-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=7...;start=-38) and the discussion thqt follows.

My conclusion: if there is one person stupid and dishonest in this story, it is its author.

Paris, Mon 20 Oct 2003 20:27:55 +0200

Il ne me semble pas qu'il faille se fâcher - chacun devrait pouvoir s'exprimer librement - bien que l'article soit un peu too much.

It's called irony, we're just as much enthusiasts as our readers.

i agree with u merlin i think we should casterate the bastard, im an enthusiast and i dont do weekly upgrades, I dont Go out and buy the newest product out on market currently, its tempting but i wait until its tried and true not to mention i build my own systems and build customers systems and i havent heard any complaints. excluding them messing up their own system by installing Bad software which is AOL 8.0

i really dont think u are Sander because u wrote that garbage

I have to admit that I chuckled when I read some of these situations. But there are a couple of times when the line between what you called "irony" and the truth were blurred. Taking this from a techie point of view, we all have stories of the ID10T error and how this user did this and that user did that, but this article seemed to be aimed at the enthusiast him/herself. This passage is what really had me thinking....

"They have to deal with awkward reasons for exchanging hardware such as perfectly fine, working videocards, unlike defective products which can be sent back to the manufacturer. As a result, they have stacks of opened boxes with products that have been used for a couple of hours each"

Being able to say that I have been both in the retail arenas as well as the "enthusiasts" arena, i must say that the "enthusiasts" arena is the retailers wet dream. Think of it, give up a 200 dollar sound card for a plug on a well known hardware site, one positive review later and a link to your online ordering system and wham, 200 dollars recouped. Of course one has to be aware of the "quality" of site that you are (and this might have changed since ive been out of the buisness) "lending" the hardware to. Or even yet, if a hardware site has half a noggin, they might hold a "raffle" or god forbid "drawing" to show appreciation to the readers. But most of the time they give it back to the retailers who in turn put it on sale as a used item (most likely sell it as cost)

It was pretty good until you hit that thread, then you kind of lost me. In my view the editor should have taken care of that.......

YES, there ARE real people who return things like that (My neighbor works at bestbuy) on a regular basis for stupid reasons. I see nothing insulting in that article, and the flames are retard based at best. How often do you people do stupid things like try to run the PC with the power cable unplugged, or dont quite sit that stick of RAM into the slot? Seat those HDD cables correctly? Connect that CPU heatsync fan's cable to the slot? The fact that all of you do that means that you don't have the right to flame someone for giving some information. And, if you dont buy and return, good for you, than this is NOT aimed at you.


Tim

The above is my personal opinion, Å/\/Đ | ĐØŅ7 Ĝ|\/3 /-\ $|-|17 @bØU7 \/\/|-|/-\7 ¥ØU |-|/-\\/3 7Ø $/-\¥, $Ø ĐЯØP |7. 1337, 73|-| |_/-\/\/ĜU/-\Ĝ3 ؃ |Đ|Ø7$

wow that bottom text came out really weired... whatever.

Sander Sassen, irony is just one of several ways to LIE, and to hide lies behind alleged humor. Irony is used by honest persons only when it doesn't help any ambiguity; in your case it just helped LYING.

I am unfortunately not surprised, in 2003, to see the CEO of a publishing company be an advocate of lying; I am however sadled because I was hoping better from Hardware Analysis.

Paris, Tue 21 Oct 2003 07:31:20 +0200

I am in the hardware retail business and I have to say I agree with Sanders on people returning hardware when it doesn't work in their systems. I have had quite a few people try that in my store. That's why I only take back parts that I can RMA back to my distributor. Most hardware, therefore, cannot be returned, once opened, and the customer has to RMA it directly to the manufacturer. I've gotten some angry customers because of that policy, but I think it has helped me keep the bad people from coming back into my store.

I'm sure Merlin is truly proud that he has people such as Brandon Reed backing him up. People whose eloquence and dowright undebatable arguments such as "What a Fn(ktard" resonate with pure intelligence and thorough rationale.

At any rate, humor is humor, Merlin. If I tell you that the chicken wanted to cross the road to get to the other side, it doesn't mean I lied. It means I told a joke. Whether you find it funny or not is another matter entirely.

It sounds to me like you're taking that article a bit too personally. People don't take such articles this personally unless there's something of themselves they see reflected in the aforementioned writings. I imagine you feel personally attacked -- maybe at a subconcious level -- because you have committed one or more of the mistakes mentioned in the article.

While I understand that retailers have to protect themselves against unscrupulous customers, were I to buy a defective part in your shop, I would return it to you. If you said "Sorry, you'll have to send that back to the manufacturer," I would ask you nicely one more time. If you still didn't take it back, I'd be on the phone to American Express, who would credit my account, and result in a charge back of the purchase price (q.v. Fair Credit Billing Act) plus a hefty fee to you, the merchan (This assumes you ran a local storefront--rules for mail order are slightly different, but in all practicality a chargeback is obtainable when warranted, even if the credit card company isn't required by law to intervene.)

I would advise this course of action to anyone dealing with a recalcitrant retailer. And I'd steer far clear of any storefront retailer who does not accept credit cards--this is indicative of either cheapness (unwillingness to accept that merchant fees are a cost of doing business) or a lack of confidence in the retailer's wares (and thus, a fear of chargebacks).

That said, I have purchased thousands of dollars worth of hardware from my favorite local retailer, and have had to return only one thing over the years--a DOA power supply. And that was handled courteously and quickly, as should be any customer return of defective product.

I have worked Dell tech support for a couple years. I am myself what most people consider a computer enthusist. I don't agree with really anything you had to say about us as a community. I understand there are people out there that may do what you say. However, I also know that there are so many of us out there that have to help all the other less computer savy people out there. I personally have returned hardware because it didn't work in my system. But I think that the manufacturer has a responsibility to make sure it is compatible. (I returned a motherboard because the AGP slot was rated to work at 1x-2x but it would not work with my AGP card Voodoo3 3000, yet it worked fine with any other AGP card) Basically this article took any interest and any validity to your site and threw it out.

Hope you decide to change your ways as this site won't last too long or be worth much with those ideas. I hope Dell and Apple both read this article as this should successfully remove their sponsorship of your site.

Maybe if this article had been in the form of a comic strip, those of you who appear to have taken the article as a serious piece may well have got the point.....

Anyone who can't see the humour in this piece really should get out more often...



Andy

Enthusiasts are a retailers nightmare. I have worked in a retail computer store. The retailer/wholesaler's wet dreams are the guys who work on computers in the feild professionally. They don't have time to order stuff of the internet. they have a client in need RFN and need to fix it RFN. So they need a part RFN. These guys are in out of your establishment atleast once a day every day spending money.They are always in a rush so its get in get their stuff ring em up offer an advice you have to their question and next please. Enthusiasts are freaking nightmare. They come in peruse your wares ask endless mind numbing questions of "which do you think is better Gainwards geforce 4 ti 4600 or Msi's geforce 4 ti 4600?" after they get done pumping you for info they might actually buy something. If they do ask to see something and what the price is they then tell you they can buy it from online vender x for x number of dollars. We had one customer, he's dead now, that would something use it for 6 months then bring it back. now in 6 months you don't the same thing anymore so he would try to get "an upgrade" to what he had. My experiance with the enthusiast community is they are a waste of time. You won't make a dollar off of them and they suck up alot of time.

"You won't make a dollar off of them and they suck up alot of time."

I am a moderate enthusiast and sure I won't give you any piece of money I spend in hardware.
I'm just a customer and I've found to many retailers like you.

Jorge Prieto Jr (Tue 21 Oct 06:38 EDT) is doing like supporters of thieves and liars, who can't imagine someone is not doing as they do, so they are always implying everyone is also lying or stealing; just as the article author did when implying every hardware enthusiast would be a thief.

Jorge Prieto Jr writes: « I agree with Sanders on people returning hardware when it doesn't work in their systems », thus implicitly amalgamating any customer with a thief as soon as he has to return something. This is just supporting the article malevolent insinuations, without even hiding behind laugh or humor or irony. This helps more the dishonest retailers than all the honest people in retail, customers, readers.

As some pointed, the article author showed himself reckless at the best, but Sander Sassen and Jorge Prieto Jr, by supporting him deliberately, and trying to ridicule the ones defending honesty against lies, showed still much worse. This doesn't bode well for Hardware Analysis.

Paris, Tue 21 Oct 2003 18:42:55 +0200

Michel, it is easy to criticize but harder to make people laugh.

to do both takes some skill. (well done sander)

(yes, i laughed - quite liked the ultimate over volt - remind me to get someone to give that one a go).

and if "obviously most of your stories are full invented" for god's sake don't read the 175 (and rapidly rising) replies to this thread :

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/7513/

oh, all right, i dare you...wonder what all those people did with their fragged hardware ?

you must work behind the retail counter of a computer store to have developed such a high opinion of enthusiasts.

i don't and i know i'm a pain in the proverbial whenever i walk into any shop. i don't consider it my mission to make their life easy, heh, heh.
then again, i wasn't offended by the article, either.

what is obvious is that there are people on both sides of the counter who lack a certain integrity...albeit possessing an excess of false indignation.

nuance, Michel, nuance.

liars and thieves indeed ! heh, heh.

Tsk, tsk.

Sarcasm and irony are difficult tools for any writer. By using them here, Sanders seems to have made his message unclear to the reader. Is he criticizing the hardware enthusiast for daring to open his computer case, or is he criticizing the retailer for assuming that customers are buffoons? Or maybe, Sanders is trying to get both sides to reconsider their perspectives?

As an enthusiast myself, I will always argue with any retailer who doesn't take a return from me. I've had to RMA at least 10 different computer parts over the last 6 years. 6 times out of ten, the retailer has tried to argue his way out of it and I have had to call the manufacturer to get a warranty replacement. Unfortunately, those are the retail stores that tend to go out of business after 5 years. The other 4 places I continue to do business with and tell my friends about.

Some of you need to step down from their high horse and look at this article in the way it is intended. It is meant for amusement, satire so you will, written with a hint of sarcasm and spiced up with a little irony, but above all meant to be humoristic. No more, no less.

Kind regards,

the funny thing is the Vid Card i had which was ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, Tried everything to get it to work under AGP 8x, well would lock up under everything, so after so many months of having the board i did RMA and only spent 10 bux on the whole thing lol, ATi tested and found my board to be defective so they sent me a new one, which is working great, i know what im doing as of that, oh by the way overclocking is the cheapest way of getting more processor lol. ive got mine at moment up to 2.6 ghz from 2.4ghz but im seeing how far i can push it before it is too much hehe. Thats my choice of blowing it up but u know what, those 2.4 chips are getting cheap by the nanosecond lol. The one part is i dont do weekly upgrades and not to mention, having the Case Open like that messes up Airflow in the system so in other words Temperatures of the processor and Motherboard go upward. Not to mention when first buy new Hardware Dont overclock it once uve got it put together and its running, because like a Vechicle or a shoe it has a break in time to get adjusted to things, in other words its a precaution to prevent damaging the components u just got. I build systems but one thing, Peeps who isntall AOL 8.0 are asking for trouble, because there are many more problems that AOL 8.0 has versus 7.0, and not to mention if u have a scanner from HP download the Patch From HP or AOL(Dont know which company has the patch but i know they have one)

Heh, I think that this might be the most popular article for you ever, Sander!