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  Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage? 
 
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EDF oaqWJDFHHILASW Feb 09, 2004, 09:39am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Ha ha! Ho ho! Yee Pe Yey!!! Yadida

95% of what Sanders mentioned is possibly true, he was onto it before anyone did. But one thing i'd like to mention is that the FX-51 3400+ is the fastest and best performing processor in terms of performance.

One/two downside as mentioned by Sanders about the complex and powerful creation of the 64Bit AMD cpu is its capabilities not being required by nothing out which is in demand. Other downside to it is the monster price i can buy a Mid-range Complete System with that and be happy playing lan with friends at my house.

From my point of view everything thats been said in that article is a whole load of Reality Check.


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1 Feb 09, 2004, 09:58am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
....or wallet :-)

Mike Dupris Feb 09, 2004, 11:00am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> WAITING ON INTEL
Come on. We all know that Microsoft has a duty to Intel to hold off mass marketing and launch of 64-BIT AMD and 64-BIT Windows. Intel is as large and as powerful as Microsoft so of course Microsoft will not upset their chief partner.

It's too bad. This would have put AMD back in the front --something the company has not seen since beating Intel to the 1.0GHz mark. Just as consumers are getting used to seeing the odd HP with an AMD logo, we could have seen a public handshake between AMD and Microsoft. That is too bad for AMD.

But like every business day, things get killed you know. Perhaps we are not being told about heating issues with the processor or the 1000s of revisions to the OS --got to remember the new version of IE that comes canned with 2003 Server already has a service pack to address security issues. Maybe saving face is more important right now since consumers will scrutinize every purchase and pinch every penny more often these days.

Lawrence Heffernan Feb 09, 2004, 01:44pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I have it installed, on my second drive... it does run winamp, so I can listen to music on it. No ATi radeon drivers (proper ones) yet, also, my SpeedStream DSL 3060 will probably never have AMD64bit drivers

James Marlin Feb 09, 2004, 02:51pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I think the biggest factor in all this is being missed.

OEM support.
The AMD 64's are a great concept and great processor, but as with many things the "enthusiasts" market isn't really large enough to create any major market shifts, on it's own any way.

Until big OEM's like HP, Dell, start putting 64's into the hands of the "average joe" IMHO your going to see "foot dragging" all around. The OEM's are the ones with the market presence to really light a fire under both Microsoft's, and the hardware manufacturer's butts.

It's too bad, but I'm still going to get a AMD 64 eventually, with or with out 64bit OS support.
In some ways AMD would of been better off waiting another year (but then Intel would have had a monster lead), when all the new must have hardware (like BTX, PCI express, etc.) was available.
That's what I'm waiting for before my next "big" upgrade.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 09, 2004, 04:26pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
i dont really see any purpose if there isnt a release on 64 Bit OS that works on a PC.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
James Marlin Feb 09, 2004, 04:47pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
It's still a great performing cpu on a 32bit OS Airman, and ranks up there with Intel's cpu's IMHO. The lack of a 64bit OS doesn't change that in any way.

The lack of a 64bit OS simply means that certain capabilities of the cpu are not being fully utilized. So of course a 64bit OS would "unlock" more performance, but lack of one doesn't hamper overall cpu performance, using current generation software.

64bit support is more a "future proof" feature for the home market at this point in the game, because IMHO 32bit still has some head room before we'll "have" to move to 64bit.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
Doug Roberson Feb 09, 2004, 06:27pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I'm running Mandrake 64bit and XP64 on an AMD 64 3200+ and as an enthusiasit loving every minute of it. Things will obviously impove software wize, over time
. Why fret about it?

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 09, 2004, 07:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
personally im sticking with the system i have, it plays the latest games without a hitch, altho i wish i could play the games that ran on Windows ME and below but dont run on NT(2000/XP)

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 09, 2004, 07:39pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
personally the current Prescott processors are not worth it on the Intel deal, the Northwoods out perform it.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Sabriel MoonStar Feb 09, 2004, 07:53pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
64 bit desktop computing is not a mirage, get a Power Macintosh G5 and you're all set *^-^*

sent2null Feb 09, 2004, 08:18pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Even in 32bit mode, it's the best performance x86 has to offer today...
1) The Athlon 64 bit chips(Athlon64 and Opteron) are currently the highiest performing (on average) x86 based processors, a cursory review of any of the major hardware review sites will show them dominating or leading most benchmarks over the best Intel has to offer. (Anandtech, Tomshardware, SharkeyExtreme, HardOCP...etc.) This, inspite of the fact that it is running in 32bit mode with the 32bit OS's that it is usually tested on.

2) You can run it at 64bit if you use currently available OS's (Linux variants like the previously mentioned Mandrake) that have 64bit support today.

3) AMD is doing great despite the hamstringing that MS and the OEM's(also hamstringing themselves actually) are trying to do, this should indicate just how superior Athlon technology and in general the high IPC , short pipeline dual 32bit/64bit design methodology is to Intel's p4 or Itanium architecture. They have been putting the screws to Intel's low IPC/ long pipeline designs since Athlon XP came out IMO especially when performance is correlated to price. This is what Intel rightly deserves for building an architecture not on it's superior IPC abilities but rather on it's ability to cojole costumers with the "more mhz is better illusion". As a computer engineer I'd quit before pushing a design that I know will not scale performance in the long run just because that design can scale clock speed faster than my competitors current architecture. The idea smells suspiciously like a marketing decision rather than a technical one as I doubt the designers at Intel are that dumb. In fact, almost as admission of their Itanium architecture mistake Intel now states they will design (or have designed) chips along a similar methodology as AMD. suprise , suprise. See here: http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21464 and here: http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21462

To anyone contemplating a move to 64bit, go NOW with Athlon64/Opteron ...you'll get industry leading x86 performance in general if using 32bit OS's and can enjoy a significant performance boost if you use current 64bit OS's or wait for MS to finally get their bug ridden mess to the stores.

It's not anything near the doom and gloom scenario that the author seemed to imply in his writeup.

Regards,

Sent2null
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 09, 2004, 08:30pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
yak im hurling my innards all over the place i truly dislike Mac. Give Me Linux/Windows or give me death.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Corvus Raven Feb 09, 2004, 09:18pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Isn't Linux already 64 bit o/s?

Why bother with M$, if they are dragging their feet? I don't see a reason to bother with M$ when their cheif partner (Intel) is AMD's chief compeditor.

AMD should get on the Open bandwagon with Linux. Now THAT would be an interesting move.
Say ..isn't IBM trying that route?

IBM has always been an expensive alternative PC. I prefer the 'clones' and what a war it has been. The clones are now brand names that surpass IBM on some routes. So much for their propietary machines.

Humm

IBM and Linux.
AMD 64 bit proc.. and Linux?
AMD & IBM ?

Think that might change a few things? I do. to some extent.. at least.

--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
Enermax 500W p/s (ok.
James Marlin Feb 09, 2004, 09:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Don't have much knowledge where Linux is concerned, but isn't it more of "techie" OS.
I'd try it just for the hey of it, but my comp is mostly for gaming, and as far as I know, Linux still has a way to go where gaming is concerned.
Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 09, 2004, 09:43pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
ur right on that like 98% of the games are for Windows, in other words u have to wait for patches just to make them work with linux.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Corvus Raven Feb 09, 2004, 09:57pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
There are more available every day.

But true.. there is still some way to go yet.

Some games (UT2003 for example) has it on the retail CD.

If you think about it.. There would be more games available if it were like the way it is with console games. They come out for PS2, Game Cube, and Xbox. .. for PC's there is (mostly) just Windoze. So there is no reason to put out for crossplatform as there is with consoles. In time that may change.

Gentoo is one distro that seems to be designed towards the gamer.

--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
Enermax 500W p/s (ok.
Chris M Feb 10, 2004, 12:56am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Linux is slowly gaining attention with the "average user" now that IBM has begun pushing it. I don't think it will be long before Linux ports of games are commonplace. Even now there is WineX which will emulate a Windoze environment. If you check the list at http://www.transgaming.com you can see what games work well. As far as Intel and M$, I am going to laugh when Intel gets screwed over for their crappy design. Just that comment about them copying the AMD architecture made me crack up. Oh BTW, have there been any benchmarks with 64-bit Linux and the Athlon 64?

--
It is said that when it comes to life, those who feel see it as a tragedy. Those who think see it as a comedy.
J R Feb 10, 2004, 01:56am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I think this article is unreasonably harsh. The benchmark numbers show that AMD's FX-51 is significantly faster than anything else out there, period. Even the new Intel Prescott P4s can't best it at 32-bit applications. Sanders' calling 64-bit computing a mirage is terribly shortsighted. Although there isn't much software available now, most pundits agree that 64-bit processing is such a huge paradigm shift that we can't really begin to imagine what it will allow. Added to this is the fact that AMD's chips, while not cheap, are not ridiculously expensive. Basically AMD is giving us exactly the type of innovation we need: 64-bit, backward compatible computing that is more than capable of today's demands and is virtually futureproof (think of how long it will take to go from 64- to 128-bit computing).
It's true that it's a bit of chicken-and-egg with OS and software support for 64-bit applications. But all someone needs to do is to show what can be done with it. Witness the takeoff of HDTV sets even when there is hardly any HDTV programming available (relative to non-HD programming). Heck, HD DVDs haven't even hit the market yet. But the sets are still flying off the shelves. Once people walk into Circuit City and see a Pioneer plasma that's so clear it looks as if you're staring through a window, there's no turning back. And that huge installed HDTV base will serve as impetus for more HD programming. The same will happen for 64-bit computing. Stop being so pessimistic.

Sander Sassen Feb 10, 2004, 06:18am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I think some of you missed the point, I'm saying 64-bit Windows XP is a mirage, and thus a 64-bit Windows desktop is not a viable solution today. I'm not implying anything else.

Kind regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
EDF oaqWJDFHHILASW Feb 10, 2004, 06:27am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Point understood.


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