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  Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage? 
 
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SuPeR Xp Feb 15, 2004, 06:48am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Umm, speaking about OS's, this one particular OS coming out from Micro$oft is a ?!?! See for yourself.

http://www.lowendmac.com/rumormill/02/0708.html

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Corvus Raven Feb 15, 2004, 03:02pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
That dosen't surprise me one bit.

There are several telcoms already owned by MS. And other companies that have nothing to do with computers.
But strange.. based on that article they aren't named "MS __insert_original_name_ here__".


--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
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SuPeR Xp Feb 20, 2004, 01:54am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?

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Corvus Raven Feb 20, 2004, 02:21am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Popping up all over the place .. :)

--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
Enermax 500W p/s (ok.
chris brown Apr 19, 2004, 12:59pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> 64bit or not 64bit? now or later?
I have a very outdated K6-2 500MHz (5 years old) and am looking to update my cpu sometime soon.

I am considering the Athlon 64 as it seems to offer the most future proof solution out there. Would you agree? I mostly use my pc for dv editing/2d and 3d graphics work and gaming and so i would like a good performer too. I have a few other questions too:

1. Athlon 64 or XP?
I am on a budget and cannot afford an athlon 64-FX. Does the plain 64 perform well enough under 32bit apps to justify itself over an athlon XP? Secondly will the 64bit capability make it the future proof solution i am after or would i be best of sticking with a high end 32bit which has driver support for all my old hardware and peripherals?

2. When to buy.
I have heard there are to be some developments in terms of PCI-X and BTX in the near future. How long off are they and what sort of benifits will they provide? Enough to justifty the wait? I am also concerned that there will be future editions of amds processor (fx53?) which on release may make the fx51 more affordable? I could just be getting 53's and 51's mixed up though!

3. Drivers
Will the 64bit driver issue sort itself out with time or will i end up spending more money on new '64bit' hardware and peripherals than the 64bit OS itself?

I don't want to waste my money on a athlon 64 if it isn't going to be folowed by a reliable and robust OS with good driver support for existing hardware and software. (am i asking too much of such a new technology?)

Any help would be much appreciated as i have been meaning to upgrade my pc for some time and now all these 64bit developments have got me a bit confused and have made for some difficult decisions.THANKS!


Lastly what will pci-x be used for (graphics cards, harddrives or just similar deviced to current pci cards - if so what is the need for such speed increases as no modem or firewire card can be so fast! surely)? Anyone know a website which explains btx because i just don't have a clue. cheers. sorry this is so long and has son many questions.

James Marlin Apr 19, 2004, 11:06pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I'll try to answer you questions the best I can, it'll be easier for me though not to answer them in the order you asked. Also remember that these are merely my opinions, not written in stone.

I'm a dyed in the wool AMD man and in fact I've just recently built a new system using the new Athlon XP mobile 2500+ (nice little chip for $110 CND, great overclocker), most likely my last system till I build an Athlon 64 system.

Why am I waiting? Many if not most of the current PC standards, are reaching their performance limits. In fact a modern CPU is all most like a extremely fast sprinter wearing hip waders. It's performance isn't limited by it's capabilities, but more by all the bottle necks that hamper it's performance.

Here's a few links explaining what these new technologies are/will be capable of

http://www.hardwareaccelerated.com/content/technology/pciexpress/index.php (PCI Express)

http://www.intel.com/update/contents/dt10031.htm (BTX Form factor)

http://www.lsilogic.com/technologies/industry_standards/sata_a...ology.html (SATA)

http://tech-report.com/reviews/2003q3/athlon64/index.x?pg=1 (Athlon 64)

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:kYs_CUg7DSoJ:http://www.co...p;ie=UTF-8 (DDR2)

Some like SATA are here but need to mature a bit. Others like the Athlon 64 are still waiting for the standards/software to catch up. But once all these new standards come together, and mature a bit, the performance gains will be astounding. Not only will they have better performance capabilities, but many legacy solutions no longer needed like IRQ's, FSB's, etc. will be eliminated, producing even more over all performance and stability.
It'll all most be the hardware equivalent of going from DOS to Windows XP. IMHO it'll be amazing. And as for your comment about who would need all the speed of PCI Express. When there was talk of extremely large HD's, 5-10 years ago, many people said, who needs that much room? Now a 20gig is considered tiny and many people consider 80-100gig drives to be the norm. Your old 500mhz CPU might of been fine in it's time, but once you get a faster computer, it's adequate speed will turn into a snails pace very quickly. A few years after PCI Express's roll out, most will be wondering how we got along without it.

As all this new capability comes on line and the system bottle necks disappear, the ability to take advantage of what a Athlon 64 can truly deliver will become more of a reality. And the need for 64bit processing will become less a luxury, and more of a necessity.

Does that mean there's no need to get a Athlon 64 now? Not necessarily. The one advantage of the Athlon 64's design is that if it was simply only a 32bit CPU it would still be a great performer. Easily going head to head with the P4's, and beating them when you consider the "bang for the buck" portion of the equation. The built in "future proof" 64bit capability is basically gravy.

The Athlon 64 is AMD's current performance CPU, while the XP has reached it's limitation. It's now becoming AMD's new "budget" CPU to replace the Duron.

The Athlon 64FX versions are simply the "best of the best". Is the performance gained by having one worth the extra expense, not really. FX's like the Intel EE's, are more for the people who love to be on the cutting edge, and are less concerned with the expense needed to get there. But on the other hand comparing the XP to the 64, it's simply a matter of need, and life span. The longer you want to keep a system for, the higher specification/capability you should consider buying.

And by the way, I wouldn't hope for the FX CPU's to drop in price. AMD is releasing them as a small production run, limited edition CPU. IMHO most if not all of the older FX models should be gone by the time the next one is available.

So to wrap this up, if you currently need the abilities of a Athlon 64, then go for it. All most all current hardware will work fine with it. The only area currently lacking being 64bit software (OS/Apps). But it's not that big a deal, it's more that some early adopters are simply a little frustrated, that some of the extra capabilities of the 64 are currently being wasted.

So what do I think you should do? Consider, what you need the system to do, and what you can afford.
I think, considering your current system speed, anything you get will floor you as it is.
I know what I speak of, I went from a AMD K6-2+ 500@550 to a Athlon XP 1600+ 2 1/2 years ago and it was a great performance increase (going from 98SE to XP didn't hurt either).

Lastly, all the new technologies are still a while away. At least a year or two, maybe longer for them to reach a nice mature state. Considering that, I wouldn't suggest waiting, either go cheap, and then replace when they come out. Or buy to meet your current needs and a bit beyond, and don't sweat what's coming down the line. It's more for us hardware junkies to get all excited about then anything any way.

Either way you go IMHO I think you'll be happy.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Apr 20, 2004, 11:30pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
it would be funny if AMD released one more AMD XP Processor that is actually 64/32bit and doesnt produce as much heat as the AMD XP 3200+(run as cool as a P4 at 2.4 GHZ(533). AMD Would name this processor the AMD XP 3400+, the XP 3400+ (2.4 GHZ 400 FSB Set as 200 in bios) would have more Cache(L1=128 L1.5=256 L2=512) SSE, SSE 2,this Processor will underclock to only 3200+ speed(to get system to boot for first time), plus the Chipsets that support the XP64BIT processor is the KT880 and Nforce 2-64(SPP2 & MCP-T2). The motherboards equipped with these chipsets allow for higher FSB(Up to 800, 400 in bios) and Multiplier rates are like up to 40, Oh and There is HyperTransport, PCI Express(X16 supports AGP 8X and PCI X16 vid cards)(X4supports regular PCI Cards). Oh this is all fictional but it would be cool to see this AMD Processor and Motherboards created.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
chris brown Apr 21, 2004, 11:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
When can we expect to see PCI-X in mobos for desktops? I hear it's just made it into the server market so would the end of 04 be a sensible estimate for A64 mobos?

What about DDR2 and dual channel support for the A64? Any news from AMD on that as to me that would be the icing on the cake for the A64.

I hope it won't be too long as I really want (need!) a new pc and this definitely seems a bad time to be buying! especially an amd based system.

chris brown Apr 21, 2004, 01:56pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 21, 2004, 01:59pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
In my above posts i meant PCI Express not PCI-X (they are different things right?)

Will dual channel support/ddr2 be added in the socket 939 release of the A64? Late summer??

Anyway any rough estimate of a release date would be good. Thanks in advance.

SuPeR Xp Apr 21, 2004, 07:55pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 21, 2004, 07:57pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I don't think AMD is moving to DDR2 just yet. It costs too much money, and only works good with high memory speeds like 600MHz and up. Plus, when there is finaly market demand, then they will start using DDR2 or even DDR3 and just skip DDR2.

DDR2
Only works good with high Ram speed. (600MHz+)
Get extremely HOT and dosn't out perform DDR1 in lower Ram speeds.
Is expensive to produce

DDR3
Works amazing with low and high Ram speeds.
Out-performs DDR2
Runs cooler than DDR1 & DDR2
Cheaper to produce than DDR2.

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
James Marlin Apr 23, 2004, 06:40pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
I've heard that Intel plans to release a PCI Express chip-set some time this summer. That means that P4 users should see a MB by early to late fall, and I've heard that it should be a BTX MB as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if an A64 PCI Express chip-set came out around the same time as well, or soon after.
The problem is that early adopters often get to beta test/trouble shoot new technology, and pay more for the right to do it (ain't life grand?). Plus your initial selection is quite limited to boot.

So IMHO I'd say mid 2005 should be the best time to start considering a PCI Express MB. Prices should be a bit more reasonable, most of the "bugs" in the chip-sets/MBs should be dealt with as well, and more manufactures should be on board, making for more chip-sets/MBs to choose from.

Another thing, there's a 50/50 chance that I'm right on this, but there's a good chance that all this new technology (at least for the first year or two) will only be available as high end parts (read expensive), so you'll quite likely be looking at a $500 bill for a PCI Express graphics card, maybe more.

As I said early, with the speed you currently have, you could build a extremely cheap system (XP 2500+ or the CPU I currently have), and it would, IMHO any way, simply blow you away. On the other hand a A64/PCI Express system won't be cheap, but man-o-man, it won't just blow you away IMHO, but it'll blow you through your wall, like the "lame #ss" G5 is supposed to.

I guess it's up to you, wait or buy now.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
SuPeR Xp Apr 23, 2004, 07:15pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Intel is trying to drive the BTX form factor into our throats. They claim that, BTX will solve there CPU heat issues.
But I don't think it will take off as fast as they like it to take off. The world is not ready to give up ATX. And if AMD don't move to BTX, then nobody will. AMD has shown the way in technology for many years.
Plus BTX will be very expensive.

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
James Marlin Apr 23, 2004, 07:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 23, 2004, 07:47pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Hey Airman, AMD has released a new processor family that runs much cooler then the 3200+.

Just like how near the end of the K6-2's life they released the mobile K6-2+ and K6-3+ which ran super cool, and over clocked with ease.
AMD has now released the XP mobile family. I just built a system around (check out my profile for more info) the Athlon XP M 2500+ (Barton core). It's supposed to run on a 133FSB at 1.86ghz and 45w at 1.45 volt (default settings) no idea on temps.
Mine is currently running at 40C with a Aeroflow heat-sink, this is with a OC to 2.34ghz on a 166FSB, 1.55 volt totally stable. Sandra states a sweet 3400+ PR for my current OC.
It's not all cream because video isn't stable on a 200FSB for some reason, either memory, MB chip-set, or PSU, can't say.
This CPU is unlocked (mine won't go lower the 9.5 for some reason) and many people are stating 2.6, 2.7 and even 2.8ghz OCs for this chip. I decided to go lower so I get the performance, but can still have a cool and quite system.

You know the really funny thing about this CPU, the site I got it from lists if for $145CND and the 3200+ for $300CND. I got mine from them during a "March Madness" sale for $120CND. Why would I, or any one else for that matter, spend another $180 for an obviously inferior CPU?

As for the rest, well we can all dream, but I doubt AMD would rework the K-7 core to add those extra capabilities, not worth it from their view point IMHO.

Athlon XP M 2500+ (12x200FSB=2.4 ghz, PR 3500+), Soltek SL-75RN2-L, 1gig 3200DDR Ram, ATI X800GTO, NEC MultiSync FE991sb, Creative Audigy OEM, Logitech 5.1 speakers, 40gig HD booting XP, 200gig@50%games, Lite-On DVD burner, LG 52x32x52x
SuPeR Xp Apr 24, 2004, 12:03am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ @ 2.650GHz
Normal Temp. 32C, Full Load 38C to 42C
Asus A7N8X-Deluxe (Vcore 1.95v)
KingMAX Dual Channel DDR400 512MB x 2
212MHz FSB (DDR 424MHz), Multi 12.5x
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
Volcano Extreme 12 w/Arctic Silver 5 (thermal paste)
Etc.
Etc.

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
Stephen Grinwis May 31, 2004, 12:22am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
i think you guys need to realise that the prescott core is only a stepping stone for a more advanced architechure offering a lot of performance scaleability... just wait for the larger bused cores.. they kick the sorry A64's ass while AMD's engineers are still trying to figure out how to get clock speeds up to the 3 ghz mark. hyperthreading, and helper threading will eventually be able to improve resource usage by around 30%... and combine that with intel's much higher clock rate, and the tendancy of todays users to run multiple applications, and Intel will retake the market in two years...

Corvus Raven May 31, 2004, 01:13am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: May 31, 2004, 01:16am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
The CLK speed to quickly fill bottle necks.. And pipes.

yeah.. wee..

That doesn't mean that the processes are completed/resolved any quicker. Otherwise Intel would be way ahead on benches against the underachive'n speeds of AMD.

--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
Enermax 500W p/s (ok.
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 May 31, 2004, 01:20am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
super XP i got a look at the BTX design, only difference is the position of the CPU, and maybe ram, but anyways the back panel connectors are still the same and it will fit the ATX case cause the mounting holes are the same.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 May 31, 2004, 01:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
well super my AMD XP 3200+ temps i think are stable cause im able to play UT2k4 without lag and also i am using the latest Nvidia drivers and ATI drivers and games run smooth, i noticed that my 3D mark score is low but i leave the program on defaults and i dont make any adjustment to settings in that program, or the vid card itself excluding Verticle Sync for both D3D and Open GL.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
SuPeR Xp Nov 05, 2004, 04:10am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 05, 2004, 03:13pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
Were did everybody GO!

Intel spreeding rumors again.

Intel claims edge over AMD on dual core chips
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19478

Little do they know that AMD will ROCK the Dual Core Industry!
Mind you, AMD is the first again to stear the industry.


-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
Corvus Raven Nov 05, 2004, 02:41pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Microsoft’s 64-bit Windows XP, a mirage?
May! Wow.. while back fo rsomeone to make a presence felt.

I have to re-read everything to refreash my memory on what was going on. :)

I think in some respects that M 4will have to let Intel go.. unless Intel can get their production lines in gear and turn out cheaper (yeah.. right) and better (yeah right) performing 64bit CPUs. Otherwise M$ will have little choice but to rethink their standing with Intel. I don't see M$ being one not ot make money on something. AMD has the something they can make money on -- 64 bit tech.

--------------------------
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe PCB 2.00 w/ BIOS 1005 (cause? Dunno.. ATM)
AMD XP 2800+ @ 0.0 GHz 0MHz FSB (overheating for no appearent reason)
(2) - Corsair XMS512-3500C2 (5-2-2-2T) @ 0MHz
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro @0
Enermax 500W p/s (ok.

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