I have about the same specs as u

The ram is probably the problem.
it was in my case.

Run a memory check, these mainboards with the nforce chipset are verry sensitive to ram errors

Try to borrow a brand ram from a friend or go to the store and make a deal to try out more expensive ram

i got up from 89 euro to 190 euro but things run flawless evers since.
i'm trying to find out what memory program was used to test my ram
if i find out ill post it

Since you have the latest drivers to your card, check the temperature. When you are in one of the games that freezes, just before you'd estimate it would freeze, close the game out as quickly as possible and check the temperature. If you don't know how to do it, then I'll tell you how. Right-click your desktop, then go to properties. Then go to settings, then go to advanced. Then click the tab, Geforce 4 ti-4200. There should be a little extention on the left handside of the tab, if not, click the little green arrow on the left hand side. The last selection or near to last one should give temps readings. It says "Temperature Settings". If those temperatures seem high, perhaps you need better cooling?

Steve,

129 for the Processor seems a little high and 102 for the mobo does too. My AMD runs at 100F and that is overclocked. But, I have the 1700+ in that particular machine. Maybe someone here can tell us what temps your processor and mobo should be running at for your processor.

It does sound like you have a faulty sensor somewhere. I have one in my mobo that does the same thing, but I have no idea what sensor it could be. I'm monitoring 3 sensors with Motherboard Monitor correctly and I know what those are. But the 4th, I have no idea and it is the one that is haywire.

Anyway, you may want to do the "desk fan" test I was telling you about to see if that brings your temps down and keeps your games running. It's worth a shot.

Far as changing one setting in BIOS, I wish it was always that easy too. It took me 3 months of reinstalling everything, replacing RAM, tweaking settings, etc before I found the one option in BIOS causing the problem. Even though changing a setting worked, I know it isn't the computer because a competing graphics card worked ok in it. It was just my GEForce based card that has problems.

Oh, forget getting help from the developers. They don't care. Once you've paid for the product and they've got their money, you're generally on your own. Typical programmer mentality is "it works on my system so there can't be anything wrong with my programming; Got to be the hardware". Most programmers don't like fixing programs. They would rather create new ones. Trust me, I know. I used to be a programmer and that is the mentality amongst most of them.

Oh, and they aren't that way with just PC users either. They do the same thing with XBox and PS2. Sell, Sell, Sell, but don't support. Typical for the computer field in the last 7 or 8 years.

If you've clean installed XP, then your problem has got to be hardware related. Did you tell me you tried replacing the RAM already? It may be worth a try. What kind of RAM do you have?

-------Then again I'd rather be an ignorant fool with a working PC than an IT expert with one that doesn't.

I hear you, brother. Problem is, I was one of those ignorant fools at one time with a PC that wasn't working. So, I decided to fix it myself, and BAM, I'm suddenly a technician for a living. Trust me when I tell you I'm considering switching careers. I've been in it for 15 years now and tired of the constant hassle. Hey, if you think it's bad putting up with the hassle of trying to fix your computer at home, just imagine doing it every day all day for other people. I primarily do this stepping people doing it over the phone as most of my customers are scatttered around the southeast. It generally takes me half an hour to step someone through doing something over phone that would take me 5 minutes if I was on-site.

By the way, the government can't be out to get you because they are too busy trying to get me!

Thanks Todd,

I looked around in Aida32 and it said I had AMD (256mb PC2700 DDR SDRAM) I've got two sticks of those in the first two DIMMs. I haven't changed RAM yet. I have a geforce 4 mx 440 64 mb card and a RADEON 9600 PRO 128mb card (currently installed) for AGP. My mobo box said it was 8x capable, but I don't know how to change that.

I better look around my house for my fan, I know I have one I just don't know where it is...

I sent in my BIOS info with some program called BIOS agent but haven't gotten a response yet. I guess if they don't have the one I'm looking for they just won't tell me. EEK. Maybe my computer is just infested with gremlins. Or gnomes. Yes, gnomes.

Today's Agenda: Get Motherboard Monitor, find my fan, buy a gremlin trap and put it on top of my cpu tower. Its gonna be a busy day, again.

TTYL theres a gov agent at my front door in a mailman uniform.

The gov agents gone

I'm just glad I'm getting help from someone who's in the industry. THANK YOU TODD!!! It would cost me $100 every time I brought the PC back to the guy who built it, and all he would do is clean install windows and say 'Have fun!' Of course that didn't solve anything so he said 'Well bring it back and I'll have another look at it' I never brought it back to him. That was four weeks ago.

NO CUSTOMER SERVICE is like the accepted standard these days. One game, Mafia, got game of the year from like 50 sites and the developers don't even have tech support. If you've got an issue, post it in a forum on their site, wait six weeks, and then get a response that says "UPDATE YOUR DRIVERS YOU MORON!!!". Theres like 100 responses to people like that...sad...

And if thats bad try RETURNING something to a store!!! Or ask a question about something to microsoft. "Thats not our problem, sir" or "We don't know, sir. $35 dollars please."

Wow. You're a programmer! Know i'm getting the help I need. Seems like every career involves stress these days tho. I always wanted to get into something like horses or the like. All ya gotta do is keep the horse happy. (but that involves feeding, clipping, brushing, mucking, paying large gobs of cash to a vet, and living off ramen noodles so the horse can have a nice blanket)

Thanks again.

Steve,

------My mobo box said it was 8x capable, but I don't know how to change that.

Most computer BIOS's allow you to change that. Check yours, I bet it does. Try slowing it down to 4X, 2X or even off. You can also control it from your display properties for the video adapter. Right click somewhere on the desktop, click properties, then settings, then advanced. You should have an nvida tab or tab for your graphics card. Somewhere in that tab you can lower that setting plus some others. Just change one setting at a time, try the game, then try another setting, etc until you hit the magic spot.

Hey, something else I haven't thought about until now is audio. Some Direct 3D games don't like audio acceleration. You can lower the settings on that too until you find the highest setting it will work at. You can do this from dxdiag. Click Start, Run, key in dxdiag and then OK it. Go to the sound tab and on the bottom left, you'll see hardware sound acceleration level. Bump it as low as it will go for the first test of your game. If your game works ok, then you know it has something to do with that. Then, you can bump it up one each try until you find out what the highest setting is that works. Oh, btw, the tests included with dxdiag are generally worthless. They usually say everything is ok.

Can you tell by now we are using a "shotgun" to solve this problem? I'm hoping it isn't a memory problem, but if it comes down to it, you may have to consider purchasing new RAM. We'll use that as a last resort. Your symptoms are a little different than most others. Most other people I talk to generally get some kind of error message pop up on the screen about "sending data to Microsoft"... Your's just bumps you back to the desk top.


--------Maybe my computer is just infested with gremlins. Or gnomes. Yes, gnomes.

I'd rather have gnomes than orcs or goblins.

----------It would cost me $100 every time I brought the PC back to the guy who built it, and all he would do is clean install windows and say 'Have fun!'

Typical. Most system builders are that way. Most have only been in the field since the Windows 95 days and don't really understand exactly how a PC works, nor do they understand using the command prompt. Believe it or not, there are still some advanced features you can do from the command prompt that you can't do from Windows. Many of these guys think that reinstalling is the answer to everything. That's because it's the easy way out. While reinstalling has its merit, I consider it a last resort. In my line of work, supporting thousands of PCs, hundreds of servers (both Unix and Windows), and several flavors of OS in the medical field, reinstalling usually doesn't fly with the Dr. The only time we reinstall is when a hard drive goes bad or the OS won't boot into safe mode. In the case of Unix, everything is different, but still the same concept.

-------NO CUSTOMER SERVICE is like the accepted standard these days.
DING DING DING DING DING....you just summed up the typical modern business. You won the prize. Unfortunately, this isn't limited to computers. I recently built a house and since the contractor has gotten his money, I have a hard time getting him to come out and fix leaks, gutters, my porch, etc. Same thing with my washer and dryer. Same thing with eating at a restaurant. It just seems no one cares any more. It's all about getting money now. "Who cares if we keep the customer long term?" That seems to be par in modern business now. Sad.

--------Or ask a question about something to microsoft. "Thats not our problem, sir" or "We don't know, sir. $35 dollars please."

Don't complain, they charge businesses 250/hr!

---------Wow. You're a programmer!

I USED to be a programmer. I got bored with it. It wasn't a challenge. It was too simple. (This was in the days of RPG, Cobol, Pascal, Fortran) Now, I'm a Network Engineer, Computer Consultant, PC Technician, Security Specialist, Windows Server Administrator, Unix Adminstrator, Exchange Administrator, SQL Administrator, and a myriad of other things. Now, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. Everything is so much of a challenge, it is a hassle. Most others in my line of work also have multiple job functions. Problem is, most companies don't want to pay us anywhere near what our productivity level is compared with other job careers. Programmers get paid better than we do and work half the hours with much less stress.

---------I always wanted to get into something like horses or the like. All ya gotta do is keep the horse happy. (but that involves feeding, clipping, brushing, mucking, paying large gobs of cash to a vet, and living off ramen noodles so the horse can have a nice blanket)

I've helped raise horses before. You forgot some things though... Getting up at 5 am and shoveling what a horse leaves behind!

Glad to be helping you. I know how lonely it is when you are trying to solve a tough PC problem and no one seems to have any suggestions. The key to solving any PC problem is never give up. Just keep trying things until you find it. I've learned in life that if you look for something long enough, you'll usually find it.

Guys,
Got a question and please don't get mad.

If you had this problem and needed to find a possible solution, would you want to go thru 25 pages of replies to find the answer.

Maybe someone may want to post a new discussion listing all possible solutions to this on-going very popular problem.

Jay

Thanks Todd

I had to lower my Sound Accel from full to basic so I could hear the voices in Mafia. The other games that crashed (all of them) worked on full tho. I'll try no accel.

I never knew about lowering the agp settings from the desktop! Instead of one Radeon tab it had about eight. I'll play with the settings and get back with you on that.

Gnomes are scary.

I KNEW THAT COMPUTER GUY WHO BUILT MY PC DIDN'T CARE IF I WAS HAPPY!!!

Woah. You have to put up with annoying people like me who's PC problems don't seem to go away? THATS STRESS!!! And then you're taking EXTRA time to help me? THANK YOU!!!


I talked to esupport.com today. They want me to pay $70 for a Flash Bios disk. The guy I talked to said something about my APCI (APSI? I already forgot) version was 1.0 and the disk had 2.0. I really don't trust companies so I said "uhhhhh $70? Bye!" That disk would be my second to last resort and new RAM is my last...but its AMD RAM...I would think it would be at least medium-high quality RAM but the guy who built my PC was probably goin for maximum profit instead of quality so who knows? (he probably scavenged the ram out of some elses machine...)

HORSES SAY NAY!!!! I've always wanted a horse but my parents wouldn't have it.....money wasn't a problem and we had eleven acres with a big field.....I always went horseback riding at graves mountain and kelly's ford in virginia whenever I could.

Thanks again, man! Those advanced display settings may be the holy grail, I'll work on that now. Mobo Monitor confused me so I just kinda uninstalled it. I never found my fan either! (those gnomes....they stole my fan....)

IF ANYONE HAS A HORSE FOR A STRAIGHT UP TRADE HERES A PC THAT SORTA WORKS. (sorta emphasized._

Todd,

Now its getting wierd. Just wierd. I messed around in the display advanced settings for a while. I set it as low as it would go and still work with direct3d, then lowered all my performance tabs to performance (thats low, right?) From there it crashed pretty bad: the pc restarted on me. So I made sure sound was at basic in dxdiag which it was. (i tried no sound accel too with no luck)

From there I moved each notch up and tested. Before I started it was at full. Everything crashed. But the wierd part is at full with every setting turned fully up, antisoptric filtering at 16x and antialiasing at 4x it didn't crash AS MUCH. Still crashes, tho. At one notch down from full graphic accel seemed the best but games still crash. Constantly. (with every setting maxed out games run fine with no visible impact on fps or anything. Wow. This would be a great gaming machine if it worked....)

Something also happened thats never happened before: an error message! Game.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. Please send error report to microsoft. I did, but the screen that tells you what the problem was never came up. EEK. The computer also froze up once, something its never done. Could this be the loop bug? I've heard of it but thats as far as my limited, no, NONEXISTANT knowledge goes.

Hmmmm, well, every time I think I fixed it then the next thing I know is I'm looking at the desktop...very frustrating...

I've still gotta find that fan!

AND I KNOW THE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE COMPANIES KNOW ABOUT THIS PROBLEM. Of course they...we've been there before.

I'm just glad I've got an expert helping me through all this...THANKS MAN.

Whats next on the list? Hmmm...maybe I should just haul this PC back to con artist who built it...but wait then I would just get another PC with the same specs somewhere and repeat this whole process....

I wish there was some way I could help you in return!

To ben and max,

I have brand name ram and the temperature on my video card is more than below tolerance (its cool as a cucumber) but for some reasons I still freeze up after 5 to 20 minutes of gameplay. Ive been working at this problem for a month now. I am going to switch video cards with a friend ( he has a radeon 9800 pro 128 mb and see if I still have teh same problem. If it fixes it...then that'll mean I'll just have to get a new video card. However if that doesnt fix it, i'm still looking for a fix to my problems. Any help would be apprecited. Thanks.

but did u run a test program on the ram??

J. Mercado,

Yes, I would be happy to go through 25 pages of forums to find a solution, especially after I've spent weeks trying to solve my problem and speaking with so called experts who think there is only one solution to every problem. In fact, I currently don't have this problem any more and neither do my customers thanks to forums like this where ideas are freely tossed around. I go to web sites like AMD, VIA, Nvidia, and Microsoft searching through hundreds of pages of "lists of possible solutions" with no answer. Then, try contacting them email or by voice. Forget it, they aren't helpful. I find more answers to technical problems in 25 pages on a forum than I do with 100 pages in a knowledge base.

Oh, also, the response time on forums is much quicker than an email. Additionally, I follow this forum and several others each and every day in case someone else has a new idea or fix. One other forum I'm really fond of here is another forum regarding cooling AMD processors. An employee of AMD has sent in his ideas regarding cooling, and I challenge anyone to find the information he talks about here on the AMD web site. Another forum is overclocking. Again, you won't find very much at all on how to do it on AMD, Intel, or any mother board manufacturers web site.

So, the answer is "yes", I'll happily read all 25 pages if it will help me to fix a problem that has been nagging me for weeks.

My 2 cents.

-------Woah. You have to put up with annoying people like me who's PC problems don't seem to go away? THATS STRESS!!! And then you're taking EXTRA time to help me? THANK YOU!!!

You aren't annoying. The annoying ones are the ones who expect me to say a magic word to fix their computer. You are patient and willing to learn.

--------I talked to esupport.com today. They want me to pay $70 for a Flash Bios disk

For the mobo BIOS or the card BIOS? Either way, you can download a flash utility from either one for free.

--------The guy I talked to said something about my APCI (APSI? I already forgot) version was 1.0 and the disk had 2.0.

ACPI - It stands for Advanced Configuration and Power Interface. It controls how much power is given to ACPI compliant devices. It also controls the power saving features of your PC. It is highly unlikely this has anything to do with your problem. However, the word "power" jogged something in my memory. It's possible your PC's power supply isn't large enough. How many watts is it rated for? What brand is it?

--------I messed around in the display advanced settings for a while. I set it as low as it would go and still work with direct3d, then lowered all my performance tabs to performance (thats low, right?)

Not really. Performance settings allow your games to run faster at the expense of quality. It's more or less a preference rather than a low vs high thing.

-------From there I moved each notch up and tested. Before I started it was at full. Everything crashed. But the wierd part is at full with every setting turned fully up, antisoptric filtering at 16x and antialiasing at 4x it didn't crash AS MUCH.

We're getting somewhere now. When you cut back on many of these settings, you are offloading the work to the processor and RAM. Since it crashes more often, I would say your problem is processor, RAM or mobo related.

----------Something also happened thats never happened before: an error message! Game.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. Please send error report to microsoft. I did, but the screen that tells you what the problem was never came up. EEK. The computer also froze up once, something its never done. Could this be the loop bug? I've heard of it but thats as far as my limited, no, NONEXISTANT knowledge goes.

That message may be a clue. It will be in the event viewer. Please post that message here.

The loop bug gives you the blue screen of death. I had that one too but got it fixed with a driver update.

I would still like to try the fan idea and see if that lowers your temperature. I think that's a little high. An AMD tech that posts here stated that any AMD processor that gets over 140F is going to have problems. Yours isn't far from that, so I'm wondering if that temp is spiking over 140 when you play the games. Usually, an overheated processor will cause reboots, blue screens, or freezes. I'm leaning toward RAM being your problem, but considering once you take RAM out of its package, companies generally won't take it back. I would hate for you to waste the money. Do you have a friend with an AMD system comparable to yours you could borrow RAM from?

------I wish there was some way I could help you in return!

There is. Once you've got your problem solved, just be willing to help another poor soul fix this problem on their machine. I've taken you through just about everything you need to know to find the problem. Before it's all over with, you'll be a pro!

Its time to start a new thread on this topic. No?

w00t, 500th responder is me! I always get those.

Todd,

I thought I could get a BIOS utility without paying for it, but the only thing is I looked on Shuttle's website and the only downloads are text documents reviewing their BIOS's. I was like, "WHAT!!!" I'll look again, but are there any sights that will have just a list of BIOS flash utilities for an AK-39n mobo? I've looked and usually find something similar but I don't download it because it doesn't match this number: 6A6LYH2AC-00. I'm really afraid of downloading the wrong one, but if I find one that I'm sure will work I'll go for it.

Oh it was for the mobo bios. The guy said, "Oh you're problem is definately related to the ACPI." then he explained it in about two short sentances. Thats when I said, "$70? Bye!"

ACPI: I'm glad I didn't trust those people. But my power box is 350W. Brand name? I don't know. But considering what the guy is like who built the PC its probably some generic thing. The RADEON 9600 gets all its power from the AGP slot. The PC guy said 350W was top of the line. (That was only five weeks ago. Now I know 450W boxes had been out before that and I didn't know about them....)

Not the loop bug! Good. Thats a big relief. The error message is:"The description for event ID (0) in source ( ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=flag to retrieve this description; see help and support for details. The following information is part of the event: 7."

Or: "The description for event ID (0) in source ( ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. You may be able to use the /AUXSOURCE=flag to retrieve this description; see help and support for details. The following information is part of the event: 6."

Those occur simultaneously in the log. Game.exe or any other such error wasn't there. But when I did see the game.exe error message these two messages were in the log. They occur now every time a game crashes. Thats gotta be a major clue, if only the error message was a little more specific. "I'm sorry, user. We don't know what happened. Please try your game again."

I'm goin to look for my fan one last time and if I don't find one I'll buy one.

I remeber something from a forum a long time ago that said something about a patch for VIA mobo's that have AMD processors. Something about a patch for the AGP, too. My mobo's built by shuttle but has a VIA chipset. I think the chipset is KT400. If I get the patch will it screw anything up? I'll get it if you recommend it. I'm probably not being specific enough. I have looked on viaarena.com but never found anything.

As soon as this problem gets solved I'll return the favor and post a link to this page in every forum I run across that says something about this issue.

THANKS, THANKS, THANKS, Todd

I'm sure that your posts are helping alot of people who are reading these.

Oh, missed something.

All my friends who have PC's just use them for word processing and internet now. I'm the last PC gamer holdout. They all got frustrated with buying games then spending a week to get them to work before they could play. None of their systems are on the same level as mine... They were part of the growing migration of frustrated gamers who have gone to the next generation consoles.

I could try going back to PC store where I got this machine (been there about four times since I bought it, every time asking for help and getting none. Reinstalling windows is the ultimate cure-all remedy, at least thats what they say) and trade in the RAM. But, of course, if he even exchanged the RAM I would probably just get two more sticks of AMD ram...eek. If nothing else works I'll get better RAM. Now I know to get PC2700 ram. I even learned I have 184 pin RAM. I'm learning YAY! I've seen some at circuit city for anywhere from $30 to $70 for a 256mb stick. Is the most expensive the best?

Thanks again.

Steve,

I know what those error messages are but they really shouldn't have anything to do with this problem. However, it seems obvious that they are since they happen every time a game crashes. These messages are generally only put into the event viewer whenever you are a remote computer that doesn't have the priveleges to view messages remotely. It may be that you don't have permissions to write the real error to the error log and get that one instead. Have you checked to make sure that the id you are logging on with has administrative priveleges and not restricted? I don't understand why your computer thinks you are a remote unless you are logged in as guest or some other program you have installed is locking your priveleges. Programs that I've seen do this are security and firewall programs such as Norton Commander or ZoneAlarm. You wouldn't happen to have either of these programs would you?

----- I've seen some at circuit city for anywhere from $30 to $70 for a 256mb stick. Is the most expensive the best?

Circuit city is generally 30% more than their competitors. Office Depot is cheaper, and Best Buy is cheapest. But, I prefer to order over the net. But, it's harder to get them to take it back if it doesn't work. Sigh.

Oh, and when it comes to RAM, most expensive doesn't always mean better. If you do order RAM, go out to AMD's web site. They have a listing of tested RAM for your mobo. You'll have to look for it, but it's there. If you can't find it, get me the model number and brand on your mobo and I'll get the link for you.

ACPI could possibly be the problem, but very unlikely. I'll look up your BIOS for you if you'll let me know what mobo brand and model it is. I'll also need the current version number of your current BIOS. You'll see it pop on the screen when your PC boots. Sometimes, you can even find it in the PC setup screen.

Thanks, Todd

I do have a firewall: Defender Pro Version 1.0. Zone Alarm screwed up my computer so I got rid of it (random restarts, true vector errors). I'll go into msconfig and uncheck the firewall. If it still thinks I'm remote I'll uninstall it temporarily.

I have a AK-39N mobo built by shuttle. The BIOS date is 10/17/02. Other numbers I don't understand but you might: (hopefully one of these is what you're looking for)

BIOS ID: 10/17/2002-AK39-6A6LYH2AC-00
OEM SIGN ON: (AK39S014) VIA KT400+VT8235
BIOS TYPE: Phoenix-Award BIOS v6.00PG
SUPER I/O: ITE 8705/SiS 950 rev 2 found at port 2Eh
CHIPSET: VIA 82C3189 rev 0
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Version: 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1

I got those from BiosAgent from esupport.com.

I found my fan! The gnomes had moved it into the deepest darkest part of the unfinished side of my basement. I put it on the highest setting and shot it directly at my PC. This was probably retarded but I also wrapped up some ice packs in some paper towels and put them on top of the tower. Even put two or three on the side. I let that sit for about ten minutes to let the cool air cycle through the PC a few times and tried a game. No luck. Still crashed with that same darn error message. Aida32 STILL said the mobo was steady at 109F and the processor goes anywhere from 59F to 204F! Its supposed to shutdown at 174F I think...so maybe the sensor is screwed up, Aida is screwed up, or both.

I'll try uninstalling defender pro now and play a game and then check the event viewer.

Thanks for everything I've got a feeling we might be getting close now...