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/ Forums / Online product activation, positively evil or good...
 

  Evil, evil, evil! :) 
 
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Wizard Prang Nov 15, 2004, 05:21pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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I have several problems with the current method of hardware product activation.

1) The "locking" of the OS to a hardware configuration means that if you should upgrade your hardware you will run afoul of the activation system - and for the HWA veterans that can be a major annoyance.

2) The current hardware activation scheme could be used to deactivate the OS. With MS getting increasingly aggressive in its search for upgrade dollars, what is to stop them deciding that it is time for you to upgrade in the future and locking you out of your own data?

3) I object on principle to any activation scheme that subjects me to the ordeal of having to ask permission to use the OS that I have already paid for.

4) The business versions of Windows do not have product activation - so why should I have to put up with it?

5) While the current system allows activations, it does not allow deactivations. When moving the OS from one machine to another I should be able to deactivate a registration prior to reactivating it on a new machine or after the upgrade.

6) I object to any system that puts MS in control of my machine without liability for the consequences.

To quote Steve Gibson, "It's MY computer"

Prang


Who is... oh, never mind :)
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Adam J Nov 15, 2004, 05:29pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
I couldn't agree with you more and it's nice to know another avid Shacker! I was thinking of getting XP Pro on my computer and giving my girlfriend the Home Edition version I have. Seems like it'd probably be too much of a pain to do. Macrohard can burn in hell.

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Sander Sassen Nov 16, 2004, 02:42am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
5) While the current system allows activations, it does not allow deactivations. When moving the OS from one machine to another I should be able to deactivate a registration prior to reactivating it on a new machine or after the upgrade.

Good point, I wholeheartedly agree with that, and I must say your other points are valid as well, just not a concern to everybody. For example, if your car engine fails, do you fix it yourself, or take it to a garage?

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John Cooper Nov 16, 2004, 03:19am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
Well i do agree and disagree.

I have used the same XP license key since i bought it in 2001. I have upgraded my system 17 times since i bought it in various ways.
Such as 3 motherboards, 3 CPU's, RAM, HDD and i have had no problems activating my system. Yes i have had to phone them rather than do it over the internet and it took no more than 5 minutes.
What you need to remember is when you bought XP if you took time to read the EULA, you would have seen that what you bought is a one computer licence. Thats why there's no deactivation. You are only allowed to use that copy of XP on one machine and one machine only. Once that machine dies......... so does you licence....... crappy deal but it is Microsoft, what do you expect. However there are ways around this. Microsoft only refuse activation if you try to activate the same licence on very different systems in a very short sapce of time. I believe that if the HDD, CPU and Motherboard change at the same time they class that as a new machine and refuse to activate. However if you do gradually upgrades like i did i guess its not a problem. I changed MB and CPU, then a bit later a new disk, a bit extra ram..... etc etc. Rather than do it all in one go. Some people will say but thats a pain. I know that and you know that, but if you changed everything in one go it would basically be a new machine rather than an upgraded machine so microsoft screw you over with there wonderful EULA...................

In the words of Bill Gates to the People of the World........" Its like shooting fish in a barrel "

JC

Wizard Prang Nov 16, 2004, 02:43pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
Sander,

>> if your car engine fails, do you fix it yourself, or take it to a garage? <<

Depends. There is some work I can do myself, some I take it in for. Given that my car is 12 years old with 203,000 miles on it, if it needs engine work it's probably done :)


John,

>> Yes i have had to phone them rather than do it over the internet and it took no more than 5 minutes. <<

The point is not one of convenience it is one of control. If MS refuse to activate you, what then? You cannot use a product that you paid for, and cannot get your money back.


>> What you need to remember is when you bought XP if you took time to read the EULA, you would have seen that what you bought is a one computer licence. Thats why there's no deactivation. You are only allowed to use that copy of XP on one machine and one machine only. Once that machine dies......... so does you licence <<

There are lies, damned lies, statistics... and licensing agreements. This is a hold-over from the mainfraime days when an OS was customized for specific hardware and could not run on another machine. These days OSs are almost commodities. A consumer OS is just like any other piece of commerical software - you may install it on any one machine. If you paid for it, MS should not have the right to tell you which machine you can install it on.


>> Some people will say but thats a pain. I know that and you know that, but if you changed everything in one go it would basically be a new machine rather than an upgraded machine so microsoft screw you over with there wonderful EULA <<

No, I would screw them over with Linux. :)

Prang

Who is... oh, never mind :)
James Marlin Nov 16, 2004, 03:09pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
On a side note. The EULA was Billy-boys major contribution to the computer world. Before it you bought the program, the source code, and the right to alter it, move it, do whatever you needed.
When Bill introduced the first MS-DOS, which was simple another version of DOS, (DR.DOS I believe), and then massaged it to work on the IBM micro computer (the original PC). He introduced the concept of the EULA. It's how he made all his billions, that and forcing software down OEM's throats

In a nut shell it means you don't own any of the program, and all you purchase is the right to use it as out lined in the EULA. The funny thing is that a few contract law lawyers, are of the opinion that it's not really that enforceable, because it's a forced contact, but that's up for debate.

The EULA wasn't all bad, because of it the "open source" community started up. It simply took the previous "understanding" that existed before the EULA came on the scene it ratified it, so that programs published under the GPL (General Public License), are more like the older ones, where you actually own the program. In the long run if Linux can mature enough to go main stream, the EULA may also be Microsoft's and Billy-boy's undoing.

Only time will tell on that one.

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Wizard Prang Nov 17, 2004, 02:07pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 17, 2004, 02:15pm EST

 
>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
Here's a little historical essay that is well worth reading.

http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html

Prang

Who is... oh, never mind :)
badkitty109 Nov 22, 2004, 05:24pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
"Microsoft only refuse activation if you try to activate the same licence on very different systems in a very
short sapce of time. I believe that if the HDD, CPU and Motherboard change at the same time they class
that as a new machine and refuse to activate."

Actually they are not that strict, I rebuilt my machine and the only part that I carried over into the new one was the floppy drive. I called Microsoft, explained what I had done and that I had removed WinXP from the previous machine and they happily gave me an activation key. I told the guy that I like to tinker with my computer and that I would likely want to do this again and he said it was no problem and told me to "tinker away". Because activation is keyed to your hardware they can make sure that each key is used on only one machine even if it's a different machine than the one it started on. So, from my experience, MS is fine with rebuilding and reinstalling. As long as XP is installed on only one machine, your user license will continue at least until they stop supporting it.

bossa ritchie Nov 22, 2004, 05:39pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
And you wonder why people buy copied software, mines may be a copy but it does everything the original does and I dont need to put up with the crappy activation nonsense, maybe the best bet would be to get a cracked copy of XP, you still have an original and you will be using the original CD-KEY.

Josh Nov 22, 2004, 06:03pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
I agree with everything you said, Wizard, and #5 hits the nail on the head. I couldn't of said it better myself. I was actually thinking about that same thing earlier today.

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varun rao Feb 03, 2005, 03:29pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :)
its extremely sad when a basic computing-environment requirement such as an OS has to be verified ..... True piracy is robbing them off a couple of Ferraris :D .... but C'mon... this is the state of IT today..

It has come to the unfortunate situation where hardware has become increasingly affordable and within reach of the common man... and once somebody has poured their savings into a belter system what do they find out??.. the bloody software required to use the machine is gonna cost him a good percentage of the amount spent on hardware. This will never add up in anyones minds since software is never has never and probably will never be a component whose usefullness can be accurately determined....
Its not exactly tangible .. from OS point of view its the basic requirement to run a PC , this should be covered in the processor/mobo cost, atleast a stripped version... how many people are going to buy a system then NOT use an OS... hmmm no one!!??. Its like buying a car then paying though your nose to keep it running.. its ridiculous.
As far as add-on software is concerned, how long does the fascination last??.... any software is a novelity for only so-long, then comes a new improved version to grab your attention again, BUT guess what the upgrade aint free!! what were you thinking... u gotta cough up money all over again BOOOOooooo.
And what happens once you finish a game??.... how many people repeatedly play their games over and over again??.. its bloody unreasonable to pay so much for something you'll use for a month max... yes I understand the 'developers' and PUBLISHERS need their mansions constantly expanded and caviar served for breakfast lunch and dinner.. so lets be 'FAIR' and pay em the cash.. but not that much.. what makes sense is to pay for both software and games as a service.Iff they are going to insist on online activation and all that other crap then it automatically becomes a service. Either charge by the month (or similar periods which would work great for games) and charge everytime used (for occasionally used yet grotesquely overpriced software).... either do this or flush the whole activation idea.... give the owner FULL ownership of the software or charge as service and hold onto all the copyright-jargon.
It works this way only in the software industry. No where else do u buy half a product, Once you pay for it its yours.. u can do what you want with it.The only industries that enforce rdiculous agreements are those in the service industry... Its time they took notice of this fact and quit whining about piracy, cause for most people there is no other way out.

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Rude Boy Jun 28, 2005, 06:43am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Evil, evil, evil! :) - It's rerdiculous to require Internet service to activate a product that d
The problem is that the computer industry has such a short memory that we forget that the Internet has only been widely available for a few short years and already they are relying on it to activate software products that have absolutely nothing to do with being on-line. Besides angering customers who bought the software legally, it does not solve the problem because you have to phone up for an activation number in the event that a server connection isn't available. These measures can be cracked just like CD keys and are a waste of time for both the consumer and the company producing it. Yes, piracy does cost software giants revenues but they are definitely getting paid at the end of the day when legit companies buy licences by the 100's/1,000's/1,000,000's. How greedy do you want to get? Why do you think Bill Gates is richer than most countries are?

It's the same crap that the music recording industry is trying to feed us. If they sold songs for ten cents a pop over the net, I would buy 100 songs a week for life, and the record companies would make more money than they ever had before. Instead, they want to sell me 20 songs, 15 of which are crap, and charge me $20.00 for a disk that will wear out so I have to buy another one. Instead of evolving, they cling to this setup by dragging Napster, Kaaza and some unfortunate file sharers to court. It's despicable.

If I could buy WinXP for $20.00 on-line instead of $450 for the CD, I would, but I'm forced to pay as much or more as say Hewlett Packard, Coca-Cola, and GM even though I'm using it for personal reasons and not profiting from it.


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