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  Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit. 
 
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SuPeR Xp Jan 11, 2005, 09:39pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 12:41pm EST

Replies: 83 - Views: 28679
Everybody this is 2 quotes I found on the internet.
I didn't write them.
Quote:

The EMT64 chips are still 32 bit
chips. Intel will not have any 64 bit consumer chips until next year.
EMT64 (Extended Memory Technology 64) chips allow a P4 chip to
use the same registers that a 64 bit chip accesses, so that they can use
more than the 4GB that a non-EMT64 P4 can access. As a side advantage of
this, the chip can "execute" the x86 code, but it does so through emulation
using a 32 bit thunking layer. It does not run the 64 bit OS as a 64 bit
OS, but as a thunked OS. This is slow and clumsy at best. The point I am
trying to make is that the EMT64 bit chips *ARE NOT* 64 bit chips. They are
able to use certain functions of the x86 extensions that allow it to access
the same registers, but that is all. It is *NOT* a 64 bit chip, not will it
ever be. Intel has announced that it *WILL* produce 64 bit chips next year.
I want those who are considering buying a 64 bit computer to understand that
while the EMT64 can emulate execution of the code, it is *NOT* a 64 bit
chip. Never was, never will be.

Quote:

Intel produces no consumer 64 bit chips.
The Prescott "J" model with the EMT64 designator is a Pentium 4 chip. Like
all other P4 chips, it is 32 bit. The EMT64 stands for Extended Memory
Technology, and allows the processor to use the x64 core coding to address
more than 4GB of RAM. It will emulate running the 64 bit code in Windows Xp
x64, but will run it in 32 bit mode only.




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SuPeR Xp Jan 11, 2005, 09:46pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 12:43pm EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Intel® Extended Memory 64 Technology.
http://developer.intel.com/technology/64bitextensions/faq.htm

Now if this is so, then true difference lies between the AMD 64 & Intel's EMT64.
AMD's 64-Bit will run in 64-Bit mode where as Intel's will run in 32 bit mode only.
Anybody have anymore proof of this?

I'm looking on both the AMD & Intel Websites.

I'll post back soon.

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Michael A. Jan 12, 2005, 12:45am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Intel is either:

1) Dragging their heels.
2) Hiding something big.

Michael A.
Website: http://itnode.net
varun rao Jan 12, 2005, 02:34am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 02:44am EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
didnt Toms hardware demand an apology from the intel guys for misleading consumers in this regard?

And I think Intel are working on a market strategy. See its no use having 64 bit processors right now cause the OS is still not completely ready. Intel is going to wait until 64bit tech becomes an 'easy' option . Right now its too code-specific and all software require mods to be able to operate in 64 bit mode..... So the real market for 64 bit procssors would be in workstation and/or servers purely cause their owners can afford to have software modified for use in 64 bit environment.
But the downside to all of this is the fact that AMD would have become a household name for 64 bit CPUs by the time Intel release their processors... in which case the roles would be reversed and AMD would now have the major market-share...... I think this is what AMD is working towards.

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Sean B Jan 12, 2005, 02:45am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 02:48am EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Super, do you understand what 64bit extension is?

Neither AMD64 technology nor EM64T technology is an entirely pure 64bit architecture... however, Intel's extension of 64bit is slightly more abundant when it comes to operands and registers.

The only problem is developers probably won't ever make use of them, like they disregarded SSE until the Athlon had it.

Both processors make a valiant attempt to interpret 64bit extended code, yet neither of them have a pure 64bit architecture.

I expressed that EM64T is better than AMDx64, and such is still the case. But the fact of the matter is, both architectures are pure deceit and won't merit true 64bit performance.

They are an attempt to extend the x86 architecture, without changing it.

Like SSE, MMX, and 3DNow, the 64bit extension is just another set of instructions that the processor can take advantage of.


After doing some programming (yes, I went out and bought a 3000+ and a Xeon with EM64T), I was able to find out that AMDx64 is compatible with EM64T, and vice versa.... UNLESS the additional operands that EM64T has available to it are used. I was able to crash the Athlon 64 consistently when such operands were used.

However, the code I compiled on the Athlon worked perfectly on the Xeon.

Sean B Jan 12, 2005, 02:51am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Oh... and furthermore, this just proves Microsoft is still in bed with everyone... so despite what you might believe, they haven't slipped a ring on AMD's finger:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/feb04/02-17Exten...logyPR.asp

SuPeR Xp Jan 12, 2005, 04:13am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 12:48pm EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Sean B, I know that AMD64 & EM64T technology is not pure 64bit architecture. It's an extension to the original 32-Bit technology. And frankly, this is the way to go. Who wants to move into full stream 64-Bit anyways. I don't want to through away all my 32-Bit software just yet.

Plus, the Itanium 2 does not run 32-Bit App's efficiently. I went reading crazy on the AMD & Intel Websites and came up with this.

AMD (Legacy & Compatibility Modes)
(AMD's register sheet)

- General Purpose Registers
8 @ 32-Bit
16 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- 128-Bit XMM Registers
8 @ 128-Bit
16 @ 128-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- 64-Bit MMX Registers
8 @ 64-Bit
8 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- X87 Registers
8 @ 80-Bit
8 @ 80-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Instruction Pointer
1 @ 32-Bit
1 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Flags
1 @ 32-Bit
1 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Stack
16-Bit or 32-Bit
64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Intel (Legacy & Compatibility Modes)
(Intel's register sheet)

- General Purpose Registers
8 @ 32-Bit
16 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Instruction Pointer
1 @ 32-Bit
1 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Flags
1 @ 32-Bit
1 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- FP Registers
8 @ 80-Bit
8 @ 80-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Multi-Media Registers
8 @ 64-Bit
8 @ 64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Streaming SIMD Registers
8 @ 128-Bit
16 @ 128-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

- Stack Width
16-Bit or 32-Bit
64-Bit (64-Bit Mode)

Can you see the difference?
There is "NO" difference in the Extended 64-Bit architecture for both AMD & Intel. And the Itanium 2 architecture has nothing to do with Intel's EMT64. Which proves what I've been saying for a wile now, that Intel basicly copied the AMD 64 technology with little differences.


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SuPeR Xp Jan 12, 2005, 04:14am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
I know Microsoft is still in bed with everyone. This is why they are called Micro$oft, not Mocrosoft.


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SuPeR Xp Jan 12, 2005, 04:24am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 12, 2005, 12:50pm EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
I don’t need to prove anything right now. The Athlon 64 architecture speaks for itself.

So since this is clarified 100% about both AMD 64 & EMT64 using the same extension technologies with little differences, & thanks to AMD for designing such a thing, the performance lies within there individual & original architecture.
In this case, it looked to me that the AMD Athlon 64's come on top with a new & efficient CPU design.

AMD has the new Hyper Transport Technology, where as Intel uses its age old Net Burst Architecture.
AMD wont be suffering form I/O bottlenecks were as Intel already does, which is a proven fact I may add.

Sean B, if you can't realize this than it’s obviously & strictly your own opinion.


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xpend FX Jan 14, 2005, 07:24pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
as you speak, netburst is an age old architecture, therefore, intel will change it for sure and it would be enough more than the amd camp would handle, its like what happened with intel, amd hitted them hard, don't you think intel would hit amd hard when they introduce theirs???

SuPeR Xp Jan 14, 2005, 09:21pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Probably, but Intel right now is in a tight spot. They will be lucky to release anything new in as early as 2008.

AMD is also working on a new architecture, with a new HTT links called something like Limited Link Interface which will probably support a 128-Bit wide data path & run 4 x the CPU core frequency.

This info is from a tech support in a forum. I'll look for the link.

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Jim Patel Jan 20, 2005, 05:42pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
can u hury up and find the link superxp?

And wats up with the rumers that Intel is coming out with 64 bit proscesor and wats up with AMD 128 bit?

SuPeR Xp Jan 20, 2005, 08:37pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
I can't find the link. The Moderator probably deleted it, because of the massive flaming that was going on.

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Sean B Jan 20, 2005, 09:05pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
What I would like to know is what hypertransport accomplishes.

Sure, you have a 1Ghz full duplex link from the processor to the southbridge... but where does it go from there?

It doesn't help in controller to component bandwidth, because you still have a southbridge.

The only thing it really does is eliminates some slight latency between the northbridge and southbridge, and doesn't really solve any bottlenecks, because there aren't any.


The concept isn't any better than just having a northbridge.

Until the processor accomplishes integrating an AGP or PCI Express controller to link directly to the graphics card and other peripherals and an IDE/SATA/SCSI controller to directly link to drives, it isn't going to improve anything.



If you could explain that to me, I'd be happy to read it. Because frankly, I don't understand what it accomplishes.

Adam J Jan 20, 2005, 09:49pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
It's pretty much so AMD can say "Now with HT technology." A normal Joe Shmoe will say "hey, that's just like Intel.........so now AMD has it and I can buy from them!"

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Sean B Jan 20, 2005, 09:53pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 20, 2005, 09:54pm EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Well, the point I'm trying to bring up is that AMD advocates use it as something to brag about.

I'm trying to argue that it's not a selling point, nor is it anything to brag about... because it virtually does nothing for performance.

SuPeR Xp Jan 21, 2005, 01:24am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
Sean B,
Hyper Transport helps reduce I/O bottlenecks. It's a point to point link running in DDR to give it 2000MHz. It's nothing like a FSB at all.
Actually, it's not even a Bus at all.

You being a programmer should realize this.
I/O Bottlenecks plague the P4 architecture. Even the P3 was designed better than the P4.

I'll do some Info HTT searching & get back with more info.

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Sean B Jan 21, 2005, 10:54am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
That's the thing, Super... there's no I/O bottlenecks......

The northbridge already took care of AGP, and now it takes care of PCI Express.

There still are buses, because the hypertransport only connects to the southbridge, and from there everything is running at the same speed.

Hypertransport doesn't give you a direct 1Ghz full duplex link between the processor and the video card, as it still has to pass through the PCIe I/O, which operates at much slower frequencies.



Via outlines their chipsets, showing you how everything is connected. There's only a 1Ghz hypertransport bus between the processor and the northbridge(for Nvidia it would be the southbridge).

From there, it looks like a typical system: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/k8-series/k8t890/

Will Olson II Jan 21, 2005, 11:10am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 21, 2005, 11:16am EST

 
>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_...25012A.pdf

theres a big artical on HT technology I dnt even know if anyone will take the time to read it but from what I read it should help answer some of your questions.

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Sean B Jan 21, 2005, 02:56pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
I've read that...

Most of what they talk about is just hot air.. nothing really tangible, nor will it ever come to realization on current platforms.


That's what I'm trying to debate.... because I/O bottlenecks can't possibly exist until components outgrow the bus. Currently, the only thing that has are graphics cards... and that problem was solved with AGP, and now with the addition of PCIe, the problem won't become apparent for another 8 years.

We technically had another year or two before AGP 8x was fully milked dry, so these stupid developers are addressing things before they become a problem, and ignoring the problems we already have... it's just pathetic.

SuPeR Xp Jan 21, 2005, 05:05pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Intels EMT64 is not 64-Bit.
I'll have to look into it further, because its performance is very evident in systems today. Especially in the Opterons.
Why would AMD make this up? I have a way in finding INFO, I'll post back soon.

Take Care,

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