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  Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks 
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fraser reid Feb 01, 2005, 03:18am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Well , like I said the entire process of Authenticating and updating my HL2 over ISDN has taken way over 6 hours (I reckon all servers are in the US cos all my friends in Germany , Netherlands , Belgium and Britain all have the same lag problems.....

It is great if you have no problems with steam ! Are all you guys from the US ???

And also as we all know it is illegal to use software on more than 1 PC at a time and with Steam you could do this also.....

simply install PC's with HL2 in "Offline mode" and internet needed again until you want to play CS......and Valve need also not know

so this form of "protection" only partially works !

they should forget internet authentification and , if at all needed , do it per phone....

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Steve Brain Feb 01, 2005, 05:22am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
My son purchased HL2 and it worked after a very long download. Then for some reason it would not work at all. He is very computer literate and knows what to do in most computer situations. However, valve, steam and co really screwed his system. It took him about a week of hair pulling to eventually get the thing working again. I would not have such an unstable monstrosity on my PC. I think the company are arrogant, and too much up its own arse.
I know that they have lost many sales because of their short sighted, greedy, insolent business practices. When they go bankrupt, I will at least have the satisfaction of saying serves you right, you brought it on yourselves.

Suspended User Feb 01, 2005, 05:30am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
I have personally had no problems with steam, it as been fast for me. I live in NZ on a 2mbit connection and updating is fine. But I hate how they are is a silly idea

Andrew Allinson Feb 01, 2005, 07:26am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Yep, it sucks. I have a low spec pc for internet use and a higher spec one for games and secure storage. How annoying it is to have to set my virginal gaming pc up for internet connection just to play a demo. I enjoyed the demo, but OMG what a faff steam is. Upshot is I won't be buying the game. Rock on UT2004.

Clearly steam is the thin end of the wedge. If you buy it you're contributing to the likely prospect of all major titles going this way. We get the gaming industry we deserve, people.

Now I want to return my gaming pc back to it's clean running self, but I'm a little concerned to hear of ppl having problems uninstalling steam.

A7N8Xdlx rev2 bios1007,XP2800Barton,190 x 12.5 = 2375Mhz,MSIFX5600XT 256MB, Eng 355MHz/Mem 549Mhz, 2 x 256Mb Hynix PC3200, mem read 2754 MB/s,write 1115MB/s .MFLOPS =614, MIPS=468, PI=4500,KPPS= 5572, 3D MARK 01 =10,674,'03= 2,241. Seagate120Gb SATA
Avalon Akira Feb 01, 2005, 11:05am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Valve updated the steam! Your account actually owns the CD-keys.

-=Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question -----> YES is the answer!=-
Rild Silverlok Feb 01, 2005, 11:13am EST Report Abuse
>> managing piracy , and the all seeing eye
This bit :

"...But I hate how they are is a silly idea "

from Stein's post set me to thinking about a 'feature' of steam of which most people are unaware .

Steam collects user data as one of it's normal routine functions and reports this back to Valve .
for example they recently released some of the harvested data concerning which video card steam users are predominately using to run HL2 ( I think it is one of the ATI 9800 flavors ) .

And while collecting such seemingly innocuous data seems harmless , why should Valves"anti-piracy" steam distribution allow them ( force you ) to let them collect data and use habits from your machine ? How does that help them reduce piracy ? Furthermore it forces one to run ( constantly unless you take steps to shut it off ) software that in this data gathering aspect puts it in the same exact category as spyware ( wouldn't it be hillarious if ad-aware stared classifying steam as the spyware it is ) .

Obviously the situation begs of us: if this is the beginning what will be FORCED to endure simply to "purchase" AND USE products in the future ( I mean it's ever so nice to realize that you are paying valve to spy on you ) ? Certainly their marketing machinery will benefit from the 'all seeing eye' included in Steam but yet again consumers must think twice before bending over to pick up the soap if steam is in the room .

One cannot take all the disassembled pieces and try smashing them back together to call it a live chicken , Steam is no different . Valve's total intent has to be considered by looking at the software construction and implimentation as a whole . Either Valve has some SEVERE management challenges or they have adopted ( through their obvious action with the implimentation of Steam ) a stance that , without a doubt, places the customer / consumer / gamer in an adversarial role . Valve is treating the customer like the enemy ( and consequently arbitrarily extending their preceived jurisdiction ) .

Which leads me to Valve's stated reason for the Steam "necessity", that of course being piracy .

Realistically one cannot ever stop piracy . It's just not going to happen , well , that is , unless we revert to a totally draconian method of control akin to Nazi Facism (which would have to be more far reaching that just the game industry ( yes I said industry , it obviously stopped being about leisure and fun some time ago )) .

So much like the war on Betamax , vcr's , dat ( for music ) , cdr, dvd-r, file sharing , etc, etc, the methods of penalizing every one ( you know, the rain falling on the just and the unjust alike... ) to deter the bad apples is bound to ultimate failure . Not to mention ( until now ) that forcing everyone to run the invasive data gathering steam client just to play a game you PURCHASED is a tactic most terrorist mentalities would recognize and approve of ( and of course ultimately only penalizes the honest people ).

So let's consider piracy as something that cannot be eliminated by force ( which is what the steam concept is attempting to do ) , then , if it cannot be expatriated can it be incorporated? Now this is what we call a management issue .

If piracy is going to exist can we find some way to derive some form of profit from it ? If one's thinking only extends as far as the initial sale of cd's then the answer is no , but piracy does generate a great deal of product exposure . Those marketing egg heads have a term for this .It is called market penetration . Many, many products expend huge sums of money to get market penetration ( often running at a loss to (hopefully) hit a "critical mass" (as an aside: watch infinium labs if you want to watch a company that is going to utterly fail to hit critical mass ) .
Surely piracy is going to increase the number of people being exposed to any game . And quite possibly for every tenth pirated copy a genuine sale will be generated by an honest person whom got the purchase impulse from pirate exposure . But that is not the place to dig for profit from piracy .
Pc games ( as opposed to consoles and music ) have the unique oportunity to harvest user creativety and ingenuity through mods and total convertions . The more people exposed to the game the greater the potential for the generation of the next CS ( the whole Infinite monkeys/Shakespear syndrome dealio ).

Harnessing the assest of the mod community is the kind of thing that kept Doom , Quake and ESPECIALLY HL afloat for years. Another great example is Eidos and the Tomb Raider franchise . Except Eidos actively shunned the mod community and look where that franchise is now ( i.e. producing crappy game after crappy game which are forgotten faster than they can fall into the bargain bin ) .

All of which seems to indicate that as an industry, keeping a healthy vibrant franchise alive is the real cash cow , and in the long run the money to be made from keeping a franchise up and stable (lets call it security ) for a decade or more dwarfs the 'potential' loss from piracy .

Now Don't get me wrong I DO NOT advocate piracy in any way shape or form , I am simply looking at the situation from a management perspective , looking at the potential of turning a detriment into an asset for long term sucsess as opposed to erroding an existing asset ( existing fan/customer base ) in a short term attempt to generate profit .

It is interesting that people have mentioned UT04 in this thread . The unreal games themselves ( the single players ones that is ) have been , how shall I say , uninspiring , but you will probably never see better management of market penetration in the perpetuation of the Unreal franchise . Serioulsy , the make something unreal contst is sheer genius , and the number of quality (and fun) mods and convertions for Unreal are simply staggering . Does piracy extended market penetration help drive this ? Hard to say for certain but if I were to bet a dollar against a doughnut I would say that it is very likely that people owning pirate copies of UT04 are making content for the unreal engine , and what better thing can one imagine than a pirate working for you for free to ensure the longevity of your franchise. Certainly there are paying customers out there that are chomping at constantly chomping at the bit for new content , If you can't expatriate incorporate .

.. O.k. I'll kick the soap box aside and get down off it with this , Steam : It'll cure what ail's ya ( only IF you are not actually sick , think that severe anal cramping is normal after product ingestion, and believe that a greasy discharge from the pores is a sign of health)

Avalon Akira Feb 01, 2005, 11:35am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Valve just want to know how many PC out there can actually run HL2. That was their marketing tools. Your CPU and your Video card are not your credit card numbers or your looks!

-=Sex is not the answer. Sex is the question -----> YES is the answer!=-
Steven Reid Feb 01, 2005, 11:39am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
I had no probs getting it to work, but I hate it. Valve should be ashamed of themselves. There are already internet hacks and cracks that get round steam, there is a pirate steam client that kets you download everything on steam half lie 2, day of defeat etc, so it waqs a waste of valves time.,

Rild Silverlok Feb 01, 2005, 11:43am EST Report Abuse
>> value
avalon akira ,

Market information of any content has SIGNIFIGANT intrisict value . It is worth something . Quite a lot of something actually . What is valve offering the consumer in return ?

And are you advocating market research , intrisictly valueable research , in a forced environment ?

Rild Silverlok Feb 01, 2005, 05:11pm EST Report Abuse
>> mirror mirror on the wall....
(p.s. my last post seems to have aquired an over abundance of the letter 't' , but I am thinking of running for vice president and I hear adding extra letters to the end of words is a good place to start :)

Here are some interesting bits of information direct from the steam official server 'support' section:
(*wh )

For the question : "I get the Error: 'This game is currently unavailable' when connecting through Steam"

-edit- Breaks up page layout!

There are thirteen numbered "probable causes" and six ( or seven ) un-numbered "probable causes", including but not limited to some rather invovled steam file shifting /sorting erasing procedures

In one of the unnumbered probable causes nested about 3/4 of the way down the page is this :
"Finally, this error can happen when the Steam Network is experiencing problems or downtime."
except it is not really "finally" because a number of other issues are listed after it .

The first couple of official Steam recommended "fixes" involve firewalls , here is what steam has to say :

"1. You have a firewall blocking ports - you need to remove all existing permissions and let the firewall re-learn them,... they must be removed and re-learned, especially after a Steam update.

2. You have zonealarm (or some other firewall) installed under SP2 firewall. You can only run one firewall at a time and you MUST remove all existing permissions before you disable a firewall.

ZoneAlarm has historically caused the most problems with Steam of any program. If you have any connection problems and you run ZA, uninstall it and run only the XP SP2 firewall.

Even a "good" ZA install can cause odd lag, again, if you have connection problems of any kind, uninstall it and use the XP firewall. If you are running Win2k, you still need to prove that ZA is or is not the problem. Sometimes uninstalling and re-installing will fix it (for a while)."

WOW , re-learn all permission everytime steam updates, well that's so convenient...

"UNINSTALL ZA , ...AND RUN ONLY XP SP2 FIREWALL "... trust MS to protect your machine from the net and you will get what you deserve

" you still need to prove that ZA is or is not the problem "
WOW , again , to play valve's game (if there is a problem )I HAVE TO PROVE what the problem is ????, since when did buying a game make me a technical trouble shooter for the game company , and I simply love this line:" Sometimes uninstalling and re-installing will fix it (for a while)" , what does "for a while" mean, exactly ? .

right, so valve is telling people to disable (and uninstall) one of the best firewall products on the market , hhmmm, think this will open a few boxes up to hackers ?

#12 is pretty ridiculous ...
"You may have a disk problem of some kind, try uninstalling and then re-installing Steam on a different physical disk."
...considering that it is listed WELL BEFORE the warning that the steam servers might be having problems. It would blow chunks to uninstall and re-install only to find out it was a server side error ( maybe Valve was hoping to delay people with all that wasted re-install time) . Plus I am sure everyone has a "different physical disc" readily available.

Here is Valve/steam generating another wonderful security risk :

"Bypass your router especially if it's a wireless router and plug directly into your modem."
"Linksys Routers have a known problem with the current firmware, you need to run an older firmware version or you'll have connection problems"

wonderful .

Suspended User Feb 01, 2005, 06:00pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Actually all you have to do is open the ports for steam if you have a linksys router, and the most current firmware works which was released last August. So you don't even have to do that. Anyone who has the problem with a linksys router just has to open the ports. The port numbers are on the steam website which is actually the only useful information they have available. Anyway I dunno this madness that steam created really is unfortunate. They have taken the logic and effectivness and the most effiecent means of software distrubution, installation and use and ruined it forever.
I feel sorry for the younger people that never got to see what it was like in the dawn of online gaming, when it was easy and fun and hassle free. I suggest that anyone that has any custom content in any steam games to copy the custom content onto disc because everytime steam screws up you run the risk of losing it all and having to reinstall. It is a mindless senseless and tedious thing to do over and over. Thats about all steam has accomplished in my eyes. Auto updates my ass ! Do you think that a person who games doesn't have the basic knowledge to go find the updates they need to play the game like we used to in the old days ! If we have to deal with all this garbage just to have auto updates I would gladly trade.

Curtis Flanagan Feb 02, 2005, 03:15am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
hah steam suck, i downloaded hl2
thats what they get for banning my account without reason

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Bernardo Roldan Feb 03, 2005, 12:15am EST Report Abuse
>> My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
What I like about steam is it allows me to look for friends online and it makes it easier to look for servers online. But that's when I'm at home. Which is only during the 2 week holidays of xmas and another 3 weeks during summer.

I live in a dorm in my University campus. I can't play HL2 due to the campus internet firewall. There was another way to work around it, which was to crack it. Perhaps the main reason why steam is a prerequisite to play HL2 was for anti-piracy. But it seems that the pirated ( w/ cracks ) seem to be more user friendly than the real one. Especially during single-player or LAN gaming modes. Well the main reason why I bought HL2 was for the CS source. I've been a CS player since v1.3 and I still like the game.

I used to be able to bypass the firewall and play CS 1.5 through But it doesn't work with steam. So more or less I'm left to playing with my friends through the network via the cracked version. I guess the only bummer there is there won't be any updates available for us as needs to go through steam.

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Ryan BiteMe Feb 04, 2005, 12:50pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
What steam did do was keep a copy of the final game (Not the hacked Anon version) from reaching P2P networks before it was released like with Halo2. Granted it is totally worthless now and can be easily found with a work around on any P2P, the purpose of steam has been served and helped boost their initial sales.

I agree with the majority of the users that steam sucks, but after the first leak they (Valve) just had to cover their a$$e$ and try to make a profit after 5 years of development. Remember Madden games only takes 10 months to make so it is easy to get a retun on your investment. PC games do not sell as much but cost the same to the user.

Just my $0.02

If all this fails just always remember:
"Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man"
SuPeR Xp Feb 06, 2005, 10:33pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
Valve is in Trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

More interesting, perhaps, are the legal agreements that surround a purchase of Half-Life 2. One is that no mention of Steam is on the HL2 box or in the End User License Agreement, yet it is required to play.

Read it Here.

Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
Digital Bullets Feb 06, 2005, 10:39pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
LMAO!!!! wow Valve is in some deep doo doo.

SuPeR Xp Feb 06, 2005, 10:46pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
You Have That Right.

That is good for them. Next time they should think twise about coming out with a Awesome Game but buggy too.

Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
Digital Bullets Feb 06, 2005, 10:52pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
so what can happen? will they send out new games with new boxes that say Steam and thats it?

SuPeR Xp Feb 07, 2005, 10:19am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
I don't know really, but I do know that Valve admit that there is a problem with the game HL-2. It's buggy for some reason, and I feel it may be because they had to do quick mod's to the game when the Souce Code was stolen from them so that it can be released fast.

Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
ross mckechnie Feb 09, 2005, 09:40am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: My opinion about Steam? It simply sucks
steam would rule if it had no bugs

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