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  Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature? 
 
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varun rao Feb 21, 2005, 07:18am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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well to be honest I'm glad AMD arent manufactrinf their own chipsets. This gives 3rd party chipset manufacturers to get creative and really flex their muscle. With Intel u have very little choice and more oten than not their boards ALWAYS carry a compromise.

810E no AGP
825/815 : WTF RD RAM!!!
845: Ok this chipset I actually liked, but it had SDRAM to start with and the DDR's had no AGP!!
865: An overall CRAP board
915:Could have been a great board, BUT... no AGP, only one IDE connector
925: came immidiately after the 915 and offers a couple of nice improvements... those who bought the 915 m YOU SCREWED!

Another characteristic shortcoming of Intel boards is the fact that everyt time they release a board, within a couple of months, some technology (board related) becomes mainstream and ur left in the dark.... ITs as if they always knew the trend but leach the market by saturating with outdated tech then force customers to get another board well within ,what one would consider its useful life-span.

The same applies to private companies that are allowed to use Intel chipsets in their computers, such as say DELL,COMPAQ etc. Intel basically offers these looters so much flexibility that they can pick the board clean, get it manufactured at cut-throat rates in substd manufacturing centres then sell it at the same price as the OEM intel board. Too many holes in the Intel strategy that allow customers to be taken for a royal ride.
The reason why AMD boards (the oler ones atleast) faced so many compatibility issues was cause of teh monopoly Intel had established because of which 90% of compnent manufacturers produced products that were tested with Intel machines. Its not setting a manufacturing standard, its the IT MAFIA.
Apart from the BIG flop SLI boards I thought most modern AMD boards run well without problems.The blame for the SLI failure should be placed squarely on Nvidia who jumped the gun and released chipsets to enable the same.


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Bill Zack Feb 21, 2005, 07:45am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I've been using AMD chips since the K5-233 was issued. I've had the K6-2, K6-3, Duron, Thunderbird, Athlon, AthlonXP, AthlonXP-M and now Sempron. I've yet to try the AMD64, though I am salivating over one at my handy-dandy computer place. The owner knows I really want that rig and, I swear, she puts in on the counter when she sees my van roll in (LOL).

I have yet to have one problem with any of these chips. I've built several for customers and have several of my own (5 in the house at last count - Lots of kids!). The only criticism that I have had with AMD are the heat issues, but I've managed to get around that by buying quality heat solutions instead of using the boxed fans that come with the CPU's. I've never burned one up, never had one give up the ghost and even had one survive a lightning strike which burned off the leads of the memory and welded a few pieces of the mobo. Just took the chip out, stuck it in another board and went on my merry way. Been running 2 years now with no crashes, no nothing.

I did have an Intell P4 once. It was in a laptop and it actually burned up on me. It was a Compaq laptop and it was hotter than anything I have EVER used. In 2 months, it fried itself and I excercised the store warranty at Circuit City. I switched to an Athlon 1700+ and have had it going on 3 years now. A little warm, but not "egg frying" hot like the P4 was/is.

On the cost front, the price per clock cycle ratio, AMD beats Intel. For innovation, where Intel used to have the lead, AMD has decidely taken over. Even back in the P233 days, the AMD chip, if cooled properly, ran well. In fact, one of my clients still uses her K5-233 to digitize her embroidery and pass the data to her embroidery machines. Again, I had to oversize the heat sink and fan to overcome the heat problem, but the CPU responded well and lasted a long time. I've yet to have an Intel chip last as long as that puppy has.

No thank you...I'll stay with AMD. I'll still put them in my clients machines and recommend them every chance I get. I've not had issues with mobo's. So what if you have to update the bios every so often? I still do that less than I patch Windows.

Just my thoughts...

Bill

mothow Feb 21, 2005, 07:53am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 07:57am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Bill i find it hard to believe a P4m burned up on you.Im sorry but the laptop doesnt put out enough power to burn up a P4 and the P4 will shut down before it burns up.If it just died ok.But no way it burned out.Also the P4 478( not talking the prescott here) socket runs way cooler than the amd athlon.And start saying ah your just an intel fan boy because im not i acutally like AMD very much but you should give credit were credit is due.

ASRock Z97 Extreme 4 / i7 4790K / Corsair H80i / 4x4GB Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer DDR3 1600 / 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black / 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe SSD / 2x Evga GTX 670 FTW 2GB in SLI / Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty / Corsair HX1000w
VOYAGER Feb 21, 2005, 09:27am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 09:28am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?

AMD 3000-400fsb
BFG 6800
GA-7NNXP 1.5 gigs of PC 3200
2 WD 74 gig Raptors Raid O Win XP Gaming array
2 WD 250 gig Raid O Storage
1 WD 30 gig server 2003
Swiftech MCX462-V
Audigy 2, Creative 6:1
All stuffed into a Cheiftech dx-01wd
Amalfi Marini Feb 21, 2005, 09:38am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 09:50am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?

Sander Sassen Feb 21, 2005, 09:45am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Paragraphs people, the [enter] key is there for a reason, if you take the time to type that all up you'd better hit [enter] every now and then, makes for a much better and easier read.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Amalfi Marini Feb 21, 2005, 09:55am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Yeah, you should add "the EDIT button is here for something". Useful :-D

Reid Bridges Feb 21, 2005, 10:12am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I have to agree with Sander, being in the computer business I build or supervise the building of a lot of custom computers. The techs me included love to get an order for an Intel sytem especially If its an Intel motherboard. It almost always insures a trouble free build.On the other hand If its a new board designed for an AMD CPU we pick straws to see who the unlucky fellow is to build the system. Case in point we went through 2 Asus A8n-SLI boards before we gave up and bought a Gigabyte SLI. Worst experience I have had lately with a motherboard. And the Gigabyte was no walk in the part either at least it keep working as we struggled with drivers and moveing parts from one slot to another. I have read many forums and it seems the hardcore has come to accept this as normal. I dont agree that hardware should be released to the public to work out the so called bugs. If you pay $200.00 for a motherboard it should work out of the box. Sound cards should not lock up the motherboard nor should 2 thirds of the memory modules designed for the system not work. Also If there are required power supplies it should be clearly noted on the information about the board and on the box. I have watched P/S manufactures ramp up to build compatable power supplies for the new SLI boards. How can you release a product requiring a part not in production yet. Yes there were a few 24 pin power supplies out there but who knew they needed one? First I was told by Asus I could use the 20 pin with no problems as long as they met the requirements, when problems accrued they changed their tune and said no you have to have a 24 pin. Also some say a dual rail wont work, others say its best to use a dual rail. The MSI requires a 24 pin with a -5 volt pin or you can barely hear the onboard sound. The first DFI had a mod to enable SLI but no bridge and then Nvidia changed the chips. All the boards seem to have problems with certain hard drives. Is this expected by the hardcore AMD people? Well I have to say I am by no means an Intel banner waver but I also dont expect these kind of problems either.

Wayne Bradford Feb 21, 2005, 10:28am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 10:43am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I was a Intel fanboy until I built this rig I'm running now.
I have a A64 3200 @ 2.5 gigs on a Epox board which in all ways is better than any Intel I have ever had.
I had a msi neo 2 board that had issues but the epox is spot on!
This is the best performing rig I have built. It is even much faster than my 3.4EE
Prescott @4.2 gigs. And runs much cooler.
Intel was doing it right for several years but now have some real heat issues.
Amd on the other hand has Intel by the balls when it comes to memory bandwidth. The "on board memory controller' seams to make loads of difference.

I did like the Intel 850 chipset and rambus. At the time it was fast and stable(at least for me).
The 865 pe chipset was kick ass also.
And then came that cooker Prescott, Intel has paid the price for that one.

Alex-E-C-396 Feb 21, 2005, 10:35am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 10:36am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Currently I have an Athlon 2700XP that failed, due to heat, less than a montha after I bought it, AMD replaced it when I mailed it to them. AMD has overheating problems!!! I have an Athlon 900 that is about three or four years old but it failed last week. I have had sveral AMD and pentium computers over the years, the AthlonXP 2700 was the only processor to fail on me over the last ten years. I still have a Pentium II 450mhz up and running with 128MB of ram. Now i need to get a new Athlon 2400+ to replace the 900, this way I can still use the same motherboard. The Pentium II is about six (I think) years old maybe seven. AMD just needs to solve the heatsink problem. They should offer a liquid cooled alternative heatsink as a purchase package so the warranty is not voided.

Now with the advent of ther socket 754 and 939 pin chips along with the hypertransport technology and the OPTERON they will definatly add a serious amount of XEON crushing power to there already strong arsenal. Now if AMD would just sign a contract or partneship agreement with a leading manufacturer of chipsets they could develop and release an AMD designed, tested, and certified chipset that would take care of all the AMD beleived standards and it would leave all the overclocking chipsets up to the third party designers. This would also improve the relabilty of the AMD cpus'.

What do all of you think if AMD did this with the design of a chipset?

Alexander E. Calvo
alex-e-c@sbcglobal.net
varun rao Feb 21, 2005, 10:42am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
actually we arent talking about the CPU's themselves. The issue here is compatibility and reasons why the Intel hs fewer issues in that area when compared to the AMD.
Like I said it takes time for people to get off their path forced via pure inertia and take a good look at the competition and its possiblities. The world was very slow to take notice of the AMD to start with but now the pace has picked up and more manufacturers are coming out with AMD specific hardware. Its improving all the time. So honestly I dont think its a problem that AMD do not make their own boards.

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Badassie Feb 21, 2005, 11:18am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I can understand why someone would think such a thing about AMD chipsets. The poor performing but stable Intel chipset/processor appears to be a better system all around. I think the information presented here is not a true or fair assumption. My reason for saying this is that I repair computers daily. I produce AMD systems exclusively but I work on Intel systems equally. Meaning, I have the same problems with Intel Systems as I do AMD. It's always a driver or software fix. As far as Hardware, I always get the usual headaches. Driver issues, software conflicts. What's worseare the people that were used small hard drives during the Windows Me and Windows 98 era still delete DLL files nd don't know how to manage or how to delete files properly.

I don't see all or that many problems with the chipsets and I don't have to flash the bios on many boards. Every system including Intel that I have built or worked on has required some type of update. Microsoft even scans the system and offers updates for Windows to take care of many of the
issues. The latest technology always has bugs. Intel or AMD. That's why I never purchase the latest. I give the manufacturers a chance and Microsoft a chance to work the bugs out. My system may be outdated technologically, but I can still do video editing, burn DVD's and add any component on the market with my current system. This has enableed me to watch patiently. Once the bugs have worked themselves out I will then upgrade. And it will be an AMD 64 chipset either 754 or 939. The systemt will have to outperform my current system by at least 40%. Which none of them currently Intel or AMD do.. I based this solely on my computer's ability to do work. I compare it to every system that comes to my workbench. My system is modest but performance wise I have had up to Pentium 4 3.2Ghz in my office and it was not faster than my
Barton 2500+. It did not out perform my current system (listed below) by any order of magnitude.


Albatron KX400 8 VX Pro motherboard (And this is just a back up.) I had a couple caps leak just last weak
and I used this to replace my KX 400 8X board still under warranty.

Barton XP 2500+ processor over clocked to 1.97 Mhz. Will go higher but that's fine for now.
80mm fan on the processor
ATI 9600 Pro bios updated to 9700 Pro Still Awesome and excellent in Video Editing and Capturing.
Wireless LAN Card
Soundblaster 5.1 Sound Card
Direct burn to DVD capture card
512 MB OC Systems PC 2700 Memory
Western Digital WD 1600
NEC 3500a 16X Dual Layer +- Burner
Chieftec Dragon Case Sky Blue

As I said a modest system and I haven't seen a single game that would not run on this system or application.

When I build a system even below $500 I make sure it will run those same games. I have not had a single
system that any of my customers could not run the games or their choice. And I do test every component and I don't use components that don't meet the challenge. Maybe more manufactures should do this.
On the subject that another responded to. It does seem that Intel gives us products that have been
tested, yes and oudtated the moment you purchase it. Less than 3 to 6 months after you have purchased an Intel Machine it is obsolete. On the other Hand AMD does seem to present a fresher outlook by allowing 3rd parties to do their thing. I like that and I am forever devoted to AMD. I am an AMD Exclusive builder and I always will be. Intel processors are expensive and much slower in performance compared to AMD. In the Past 5 years I have built only 1 Intel computer. I don't have any reqrets. And my customers are fully satisfied too.

Rild Silverlok Feb 21, 2005, 11:31am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> formula 1, grandma moses behind teh wheel
It is interesting to note that no one is mentioning which OS they are using when 'evaluating' a chipset/cpu compatability and functionality.

Windows has been known in the past to have some rather , er, interesting methods of choosing drivers for non-intel equipment . Interesting to the point of stubbornly re-loading 'incorrect' drivers and continuously 'misrepresenting' certain pieces of hardware with the result being lower or less stable than possible configurations .

It could be argued reasonably that the third party orgy nature of the AMD systems leaves loop holes wherein the WinOS ( scatagorically speaking) does not or cannot identify "collage" integrations with enough sophistication to provide the best possible driver implimentation ( IN Win's defense in some cases hardware snafu's may actually make it impossible , but those are actually pretty rare ) . And also that possibly it falls to the cpu and mobo manufacturers to compensate with bios revisions and tweaks . Not to say that ALL integration problems on non intel systems are due to this ( certainly mixing and matching tech-animals has it's caveats ) , but certainly a number of issues can find thier roots with OS management of system resources .

Generally I have found intel / intel systems to set-up and be implimented very smoothly under win os's , and that Amd / whomever sytems often need tweaking . Even so , when given the choice , I will choose AMD systems 32 out of 35 times.

I guess the little bios and drivers tweaks are not as annoying as Intel's draconian "proprietary" marketing strageties , and at the bottom line after all is said and done Amd systems simply offer more bang for your buck .

Eric Siron Feb 21, 2005, 11:39am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 11:41am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
AMD owners are usually ahead of the flock, and cause a lot of their own problems by pushing their systems to the limits. I can easily get my aging 1800+ rig at home to out-perform the Dell P4s we have here at work.
Intel configurations are stable as long as you're willing to disable virtually everything. Spend a little time on Google looking for applications that don't work when HyperThreading is enabled, for instance. Sure, that may be a problem with 'older' applications, but the entire reason we're still on the x86 platform at all is for backward-compatibility.
My big problem with Intel is that they always try to dictate to their consumers what technology they'll use, i.e. RIMMS and separate 32-bit and 64-bit product lines. AMD is far more likely to go the route of open standards and letting the consumer decide, as in DDR, HyperTransport, 32/64-bit processors, etc.
As for the so-called compatibility issues with AMD rigs, I haven't seen anything that gets more than a 'so what' since VIA fixed their initial Athlon chipset problems. That was several years ago guys, it's time to move on. If AMD can still get grief for those things, then Intel should still be getting grief for the Pentium floating-point flaw that was worse than all AMD compatibility problems throughout their history combined.
I'm also glad that AMD isn't quietly trying to push mainboard manufacturers completely out of the way like Intel appears to be doing. I like having choices when it comes to technology.

VOYAGER Feb 21, 2005, 12:01pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Boy Sanders you shore know how to stir it up!

AMD 3000-400fsb
BFG 6800
GA-7NNXP 1.5 gigs of PC 3200
2 WD 74 gig Raptors Raid O Win XP Gaming array
2 WD 250 gig Raid O Storage
1 WD 30 gig server 2003
Swiftech MCX462-V
Audigy 2, Creative 6:1
All stuffed into a Cheiftech dx-01wd
Sander Sassen Feb 21, 2005, 12:05pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Looks like it, most of the people that reply just missed the point I'm making though. I'm not saying all AMD chipsets are quirky, or AMD is, but give a few examples of recent AMD chipsets that are. That I'm making a valid point and not some one off flame is indicated by the various threads in our forums from readers having problems with recent PCIe socket-939 chipset, the Nforce 4 SLI being a prime example.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
varun rao Feb 21, 2005, 12:09pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
He does this every week actually :D

Eric ur bang on about the utility value of 3rd party chipsets. This has always been a feature of AMD boards. And I have ato say that this is due to the fact that AMD gave people like Nvidia the opportunity to tinker around and produce key-compnent specific hardware.. imagine AGP-CPU specific boards..... that pretty much covers the main use of PC's today.
Despite all their problems, the earlier AMD chipsets offered so much ahead of their time.. that was something to appreciate.

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VOYAGER Feb 21, 2005, 01:50pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 02:03pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?

AMD 3000-400fsb
BFG 6800
GA-7NNXP 1.5 gigs of PC 3200
2 WD 74 gig Raptors Raid O Win XP Gaming array
2 WD 250 gig Raid O Storage
1 WD 30 gig server 2003
Swiftech MCX462-V
Audigy 2, Creative 6:1
All stuffed into a Cheiftech dx-01wd
Duncan MacGregor Feb 21, 2005, 01:55pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: INTEL and AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
'Quirky' is a kind term for some INTEL Pentium chipsets.
The VX, and TX chipsets would not handle more than 64mb of SDRAM. LX chipsets also had limits.
see
http://www.techweb.com/winmag/fixes/txchips.htm

This 'feature' was present in these boards at a time much later than competitive chipsets would work happily with 256mb.

Dell had a designed-in problem for those who thought ATX powersuppy wiring was
standard. see http://www.upgrade123.com/html/article.php?sid=117
and
http://www.hardwareguys.com/dellwarn.html

But these are 'designed-in' limitations and boobytraps.
Frequent updates to firmware are much easier to take.

Dunc

Will Olson II Feb 21, 2005, 01:57pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Its just a title guys.... just a title... read the artical and dont over analize things that dont mean all that much.

MSI K7N2 DELTA ILSR
AthlonXP 2800+(barton)
eVGA nVIDIA 6800GS 256MB
Crucial 1.5GB DDR in Dual Channel

Eric Labelle Feb 21, 2005, 02:08pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 21, 2005, 02:19pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?


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