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  Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature? 
 
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PCGEEK Mar 05, 2005, 12:00pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 05, 2005, 12:00pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?

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Boscy _____ Mar 05, 2005, 12:26pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 05, 2005, 12:29pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Well spoken PCGEEK, if you newbs need someone to listen too, listen to PCGEEK, not this other tool. Sorry if I offended anyone earliler, in my little immature name-calling outburst,but it p**ses me off when people like Richardxx talk about things they obviously no little to nothing about. Unlike Richardxx, PCGEEK supplies his statements with facts, that are irrefutable, and are spoken true.

OCGW Mar 05, 2005, 12:54pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Yep, PCGEEK has a "good" understanding, & gives it "straight"

OCGW

PEACE

Anthony Green Mar 05, 2005, 07:46pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Its good to see someone who actually knows his stuff way to PCGEEK!!!!!
obviously a person worthy of being in this forum who gives good advise and tells it how it actually is and not how he wishes it was.

Digitalfixx Mar 05, 2005, 08:42pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Wow! You guys are like the energizer bunny. Please...don't say that duracell kicks ass on energizer :-) It's all a little silly when you think about it (if anyone thinks about it). One thing that is absolutely for sure, competition makes this argument possible and if everyone who took one side or the other thinks there should be only one of these cpu lines on the market, that is where the game ends and innovation becaomes stagnation. So, just be glad that there are companies (plural) who really do desire to create the best and fastest products in order to gain your business. One without the other would kill rapid progress for the consumer.

Adam J Mar 05, 2005, 09:01pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
The only reasons I don't buy AMD anymore is because of their chipsets. I've always had at least one bug or problem with all AMD machines I've built. I rather pay a little extra to have care-free stable performance then spend months trying to tweak thes**t out of something. Ali made a good chipset for AMD back in the day but I still don't think they're up to par. VIA may perform better in some instances but face it, they are downright unstable and terrible. I remember back in the day with those 4-in-1 drivers. What a joke. It'd ruin everything and you'd have to reformat how many times. Not worth the trouble, I say.

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PCGEEK Mar 05, 2005, 09:29pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
never had a problem here.

Don Eby Mar 05, 2005, 10:14pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I only know enough to get by but, 1 AMD is cheaper for what you get. 2. I have built no less than five amd systems. And the only problem I have had was caused by a sis video card. I have over clocked every one of them to varying degrees. They all have been stable. I started buying them for the price. I do not buy the latest and greatest dont have the money to waste for bragging rights. The system I use is a 1700+ overclocked to 2.04 gig. with only a copper heat sink. And according to the benchmarks I used sandra 2004 it beats the heck out of a intel even as a 2600+.

OCGW Mar 07, 2005, 09:39pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I still say a mobo manufacturers implemntation of a chip is more important than the chip it self

IMHO

OCGW

PEACE

Porkchop Mar 09, 2005, 05:13pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Sander is exactly right I have done the math for yrs Hope Amd steps Up to the plate

Rudy Hartmann Mar 12, 2005, 07:57am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 12, 2005, 08:09am EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Well...Let me just say there is some truth to this argument. But you have to have context. I prefer running AMD machines. I run mostly AMD/Nvidia stuff at home and at the office. Now if I was going to go with conservative settings, the AMD would run just fine in almost all cases. The Intel stuff always seems to be more conservative too. I can tweek the AMD stuff far more than Intel stuff. And thats where I sometimes get in trouble. Intel stuff just doesn't seem to be as much fun either. I have an Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe and it's a nice passtime at home to fiddle with it. I wouldn't dare do that stuff with my servers at the office. I might do it a little bit to the desktop machines at the office. But I digress. The context here is all Windows. Windows XP on all these platforms has its strengths and weaknesses. My big complaint on AMD/Nvidia is Linux though. All the hoops that I have to jump through to get Mandrake, Suse or Redhat frustrates me.

BG de Groot Mar 12, 2005, 04:18pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 12, 2005, 04:19pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Rudy, that's it in a nutshell: AMD systems are more fun!!!
Intel systems are locked down on all sides(exc.FSB) and easier to run because every bit of software and software updates are made for/on Intels. But they are no fun. And I like to play F1 now and than and boy my A64/939/1Gb/A8N-SLI is freaking fast.

David Gorton Mar 26, 2005, 01:12am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I think to some point Sander is correct though last I checked AMD worked closely with chipset manufactures to make sure they made the chipsets correctly. I have been using AMD chips since the 700mhz thunderbird and I haven't had many problems with them until I got this NForce4 board anyway. For the record many of the problems that the A8N-SLI is having are repeatable on other NForce4 boards. Infact I read one review that stated the A8N was the most stable of all the boards in the roundup. So whom ever said ASUS sucks explain what problems that board has that others don't also! Still I hear of some issues with Nforce3 also but for the most part the AMD boards are everybit the equal to Intel stability wise and feature wise well the NForce4 chipset gives more than what Intel has at least until NVidia releases it for Intel. However right now at least these NForce4 boards are very picky as to what you can use with them hardware wise. Some would say yeah that is to be expected you should always use high quality components but for example look at the NCQ drives. NCQ is a great feature that was claimed to work but many people couldn't get those top of the line Maxtor HD's to work properly. Most SATA to IDE converters will also not work on the NVidia SATA ports properly. But hey given all that and still if you want to break the 3DMark05 record you aren't going to do it on an Intel system you need SLI. To whom ever said again that ASUS is junk the top 3 out of 4 scores were using the A8N-SLI board to break that record so I guess you take the good with the bad.
I also don't necessary think AMD is focusing however on the high end gaming market. Many cheap systems you find at Best Buy or CompUSA are AMD systems from HP, Compaq, EMachine or who ever. Dell is the only company that will not deal with AMD and not for stability but because they felt AMD can't meet there demand(actually they are probably not being totally truthful, they have a sweet deal with Intel that I'm sure they want to keep as AMD couldn't make up for a loss of that Intel deal). It isn't a secret also that many more software manufactures code for Intel not AMD and this includes drivers so perhaps Intel is in the long run the more stable system. Given that it isn't stable enough to justify the extra cost and overall less performance. In the end though both of these processors are designed off of inferior technology but this is a WinTel world so at least we can take the Tel out of Win and go AMD. :)


Frank Di Gioia Jun 19, 2005, 03:29pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
well after reading all this interesting hosh posh of information, i will finally add my own 2 cents too it . after all i probably dont know as much about the situation as most of these self proclaimed experts do. first off your instability comes with incompatibilty, its kinda like those people that want the top of the line system but then go out and buy oem generic 30 day warranty ram, and then whine about all the instability and blame it on everything but there own damn fault. First off asus is not a very good example for motherboards , i wont touch anything but gigabyte , abit, or msi. owned an asus board nforce2 once stupidest thing id ever seen, socket a but didnt have the dedicated 4 prong power connector for the board so couldnt run a barton 2500 on it. Im actually writing this from work on a pentium 4 2.6 ghz processor. and i have had just as much instability issues with intel as i have had with amd processors. First off look at the newest intel processors the 3.6 ghz the damn cores run so hot with the heat sink that they came with, that if you choose too keep that heat sink you would have been better off running a pentium 3 1 ghz, they will run at about the same speed on full load. sounds like the company that thinks of everything stable too me. Then again i have never had a single problem with an amd chipset beyond the old via situations. but that has a lot to do with the fact i research everything for compatibility. I will even take the time to email manufacturers about compatibilty testing if it doesnt appear on a list before i buy anything. And you have to agree with those that say amd is cutting edge. if intel had there way we would all still be running 486 dx 66's and be happy about it. Look at all the features that you get with amd , or these third party chipsets that you hate so much. think ill go whip out my sli intel board right now, oh crap i forgot they dont have one. how about that hypertransport, intel seems to be last to market with a lot of stuff right now. but theres good news intel signed with nvidia to make chipsets for sli boards for intel. a review is more believeable if you arent splashing intel advertisements on every page i goto in your websight.i have built a lot of personal computers in my day. used to build them for myself back in the 486 days when they wernt so plug and play. But from what i have seen as late is less stability from intel then ever especially on the newest processors and less features. Its kinda like rambus the wonder 800 mhz ram. shame could have been great ram til people found out the overall bandwidth sucked hard. original rambus 1.6 gb/s total memory bandwidth pc 2100 ram total memory bandwidth 2.1 gb/s when you look at things that way rambus kinda sucks dont it. mhz isnt everything. i look for total system bandwidth like on a processor total instructions is a good idea to go by. and how far you can overclock a processor has nothing to do with stability. or being able to take a 3.0 to 3.6 is nothing. ive done far better percentage then that with a socket 754 3000+ on an abit an8.

and i do know a little about what im talking about.

previous job integrated circuit design
texas instruments
dmos5
dsp fabrication

current job integrated circuit design
honeywell incorporated
sensor fab


current setup
abit a8n mobo
1gb ddr500 pc4000 geil ultra series ram
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cooling enhiem aquarium pump 1/2 inch connectors 200 gph flow rate
aqua pro 1 horse power aquarium chiller

i can easily overclock a far greater percentage then 3.0 to 3.6 and know what it has nothing to do with the processor or the chipset.

Frank Di Gioia Jun 19, 2005, 03:58pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jun 19, 2005, 03:59pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
and actually to be fair to amd , sanders was by no means correct.

analysis of this entire review has been based on comparing intel as a business computer due to stability, vs amd as a high performance enthusiasts computer. by the nature of the comparison you are comparing apples to oranges right there . cutting edge has always throughout histroy been flakier then the tried and true. take cars for example people almost always say never get the first year of a production that seems to be the year of working bugs out and recalls. but still those that need the cutting edge always do.

For this to have been a true comparison on a business aspect not as feature rich a fair comparison would have been amd chipsets vs. intel chipsets . and since the review used the business aspect of intel it would be favorable to also apply the business aspect of amd . hence amd opteron workstations and servers running on amd chipsets. they have been found and proven more reliable then intel chipsets in the business world as well as being faster. there then it would become a fair and balanced review both processors and chipsets have roughly the same technology as far as feature richness goes. that would be a truly fair comparison. business chipset vs. business chipset. instead of business chipset vs. enthusiasts latest and greatest got to have chipsets.

Voodoo Fox Sep 07, 2005, 10:45pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Sep 07, 2005, 10:48pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
As a whole AMD is probably more quirky over the years, but AMD also will give the performance user more for his money and in most cases run and build just fine . And if you have fairy good skills at installing and understanding PC hardware then AMD is clearly the better buy 'lately'. Sander lost nearly all credibility in the pcper forums where the people there have more than mediocre troubleshooting skills at best. Sander is very much in the lower end of the spectrum as far as understnding how to actually 'use' and 'tweak' hardware as was evident in that pcper thread. Funny how he had a hard time with the Asus SLI board but some of us that install mobos and build systems for a living can run absolute circles around guys like him and has few if any issues that could not be extremely easy to deal with. Sander, stick to 'pulling' web info for your website for material and leave the building and testing to people who can get the hardware running. You can post all the Intel VS AMD rant you wan't, but in the background...know that there are real pros who don't have the issues you do with AMD.


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