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/ Forums / DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
 

  Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next? 
 
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Mondo Dismal Jun 09, 2005, 10:21pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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If the DVD's EULA now says it's just a license to view the DVD and not ownership, does that mean when all of the commercials that yell at you, "BUY THE DVD, TODAY!" are actually misleading the buyer?

Sounds like a class action suit to me.


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Howard Reynolds Jun 10, 2005, 04:59am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Mondo's post is one of the best I've ever read on this subject.

And Mondo's right: if it's now the case that every DVD sold is not actually 'sold' at all, then surely every advertisement, in whatever form, from every studio, is guilty of misrepresentation in order to obtain pecuniary advantage -- UNLESS every advertisement, in whatever form, from every studio, carries readable text that clarifies the supplier / purchaser position beyond doubt.

The precedent being established here would actually be alarming if it wasn't so downright absurd -- like, what's next? Buy your van from the Chrysler dealer, get it home, and find you haven't bought it at all? Buy your house and occupy it and then discover it's actually only on license from the realtor?

There ought to be a law firm out there, somewhere, willing to go to the courts now and get a class action restraint on the DVD companies. The basis of the action could be the setting aside of the new EULA terms until such time as:

(a) Judgment has been made on the basis of its legality (or otherwise) and:

(b) If it is held to be legal -- which in view of precedent, I seriously doubt -- then EULA revision can still not occur until such time as judgment has been made on the exact, standard form of wording that must apply to all advertising and promotional activity relating to the 'licensing' of DVDs.

I hate piracy in all its forms, by which I mean b*s*a*ds selling illegal copies of original work. My particular area of concern has long been eBay, where the ratio of sales of illegal copies to legal originals is staggering. But do the companies / studios take action? Not in my experience, nor that of many other eBayers -- we report the sellers, time and time again. But, time and time again, they're still there. Still selling.

Never mind rewriting EULAs to screw honest users, why the hell can't these companies launch a few high-profile actions against the eBay pirates?

No, don't answer that: I expect the reason is, it's a lot easier to seek to wreck the consumer rights of the good guys than ever it is to go after the bad guys. . .

Thermalfreak Jun 10, 2005, 06:03am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jun 10, 2005, 06:07am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
hmmm own the dvd, have the dvd, not allowed to make copy of the dvd....get to do whatever else you want with the dvd....lend, share pass around the dvd.....i say whats so bad about it? i say too bad if you wanna have 50 terabytes of dvds stored in your comp....get off your ass and insert that dvd!

I say get rid of the stupid EULA get it back to normal, i say ifyou want multiple backups there should be a system similar tio how windows xp, works, it works.....and you *can* make copies....but it has to be on one computer.....i mean like apple and itunes, only allowed to make a certain number of copies and its all on that computer or you mp3, steam, apple and microsoft are going in the right direction if you ask me....

dvd copying software needs to work with the dvd comapnies, not get shot by them....this is going bad to worse....ill only ever watch dvds from disk into the player to my tv if this continues...

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
Ollie T Jun 10, 2005, 09:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Now this also raises a REALLY interesting point:

If, by their own, admission, it's *not* about the DVD that the movie comes on, but actually that you're licenced to *watch* it, then surely they should not be bothered whether you watch it on the original DVD, or a backup DVD, or off your hard drive?????

Because after all, the licence you just paid for is to *watch* the DVD, so what does it matter where you're storing it???!!! As long as it's just you, the purchaser, watching it, it can be on any medium you like, surely? And anywhere, anytime, otherwise where do you stop? As long as it's just you...

So how can they justify banning copy protection software? ;)

Thermalfreak Jun 10, 2005, 09:24am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
It doesnt, thats exactly right, they just think that by banning the software, somewhere down the line a pirater cant copy it!

i say fine put the restrictions and all but they need to find a system that allows people to watch the dvd and keep a backup, im fine with the HD copy thing just inthat case they need to have some way of keeping track of it....

heck maybe they should just say you own the dvd but you cant copy it at all and introduce a separate system where evereything is monitored and kept under control allowing you to do whatever the heck you want aslong as you dont send it to other places not licenced to you or start making copies onto disc!

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
Ollie T Jun 10, 2005, 09:35am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
True.

The thing is, like you say, banning copy protection software will (ok, might) stop mainstream home users from making backup copies etc.

But home users aren't the people who pirate copies and distribute them on the internet or sell them in markets in China.

So will banning copy protection software actaully stop piracy? No. The people who actually do the pirating will always be one step ahead of copy protection mechanisms. This won't achieve a single thing for the MPAA. What a waste of time! Even if they do succeed!

Thermalfreak Jun 10, 2005, 10:02am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jun 10, 2005, 10:05am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Ok you obviously dont know what my standpoint is:

I think dvd copying software and its removal will NOT stop pirated copies from poping up, they THINK it will stop it but theres much more to it....of course theres still the whole thing aboyut making copies anyway but its a smaller problem....

I just think theres ways for the consumer to keep on going and this isnt exactly opression in the works or anything...i think both the consumer and the manufacturers are being whores to tell you the truth...while the dude in thailand is selling copied stuff like crazy to american tourists...<---- the real problem

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
Mondo Dismal Jun 10, 2005, 03:09pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Thanks everyone for the posts! I'm glad to see all the positive reaction and, more importantly, the well-considered thoughts on the subject.

I was a lawyer for 25 years, but have been a gadget freak/geek all of my life, so I've spent a lot of time looking at this subject from both prospectives.

It's a sticky problem from both ends, but I fear with the extreme "Money rules!" mentality currently in Washington, the wrong decisions are being made (bought?) and the long term consequences besides being difficult to see, will be dire and hard to undo.

Can you imagine had Betamax gone the other way? We'd be paying $30.00 a ticket to go to movies, there'd be megaplex on every block and we still be watching 27" tv's. We'd still be on Compu-serve at 12K baud on orange or green monochrome 10" with our 25mhz 286's.

And, there would be no Hollywood Blockbuster eye-candy like Star Wars, LOTR, Spiderman, ID4, etc. because, without the substantial home sales market, Hollywood couldn't continue to spend 200 mil. per flick.

Or, even worse, because movies have priced themselves into the opera-nite/rock concert range.

Or the industry would have shrunk to nothing because there would be no compelling reason watch much of that hi-fi stuff because we have no way to bring the experience home. With no quality signal to project, large screens would not have taken hold. I bought my first 50" RPTV over 10 years ago and always preferred the quality of disks (vinyl, laser) over tape. Current cable and broadcast tv in NTSC really suffer on larger screens. Heck. my old laserdisks look rough on a 55" widescreen.

Instead, we'd all be outside experiencing our high-def the only way possible, and for free (maybe not such a bad thing). Except, Hollywood would just buy all of outdoors and nature and charge us to just walk outside.

All of this because Betamax went the other way.

Hmmm. Sounds like an interesting "What a Wonderful Life" essay.

Sorry, for being so long winded. But, these fools in Hollywood (gosh, I love their stuff) and their Washington minions generally fail to ever see the long-term effect of their poor choices until it's too late.

Mondo.
2 - 2500 Mobile Bartons on Asus A7M266-D
1 gig 2100 Registered DDR Ram (yeah, slow)
FX5600-256meg Video (getting a 6600GT soon)
Lots of harddrives and burners and all the software I can stuff into it.

"Rich people are rich because they are rich, not because they are smart. Exhibit 1? Paris Hilton. I rest my case."




Howard Reynolds Jun 12, 2005, 12:05pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Mondo -- fascinating stuff; loved the line about "we'd all be outside experiencing our high-def the only way possible, and for free (maybe not such a bad thing). Except, Hollywood would just buy all of outdoors and nature and charge us to just walk outside." Ollie's point has a special resonance here in the UK, because everyone here must by Law pay the Government for a licence to actually watch television. The licence fee goes to the BBC, and funds their output (including BBC Radio). However. . .

The licence does not say, you are only allowed to watch television on a set made by Phillips. Nor does it say, you are only allowed to listen to a radio made by Sony. Also omitted is any restriction on where, when or how, so there's nothing in the licence terms to say you must not listen to the radio in a public place wearing headphones after two o'clock on February afternoons.

The reason why none of these ridiculous restrictions feature in the licensing arrangement is because they're just that: ridiculous. And no UK Court would ever enforce them.

Yet that same absurdity is apparent -- as Ollie says -- in the thinking behind the EULA revisions. It may not be as blatant in detail, but in intent it's exactly the same: the intention to limit the purchaser's (and or licensee's) freedom of choice.

Well, no way. In fact, where the UK is concerned, I'm not at all sure that European legislation relating to human rights is not being infringed, it being the case that no person should be subject to undue restraint in the proper exercise of their freedom of choice.

Anyway. I still think the solution is simple -- and don't, therefore, go along with thermal's notion that "they should introduce a separate system where everything is monitored and kept under control allowing you to do whatever the heck you want aslong as you dont send it to other places not licenced to you or start making copies onto disc!" C'mon Thermal; you're not seriously suggesting we buy our DVDs from George Orwell?

A few high profile law suits against the DVD pirates, resulting in the awarding of punitive damages, would soon stop the domestic US / Europe home-based sellers of illegal copies. Godalmighty, it wouldn't take an afternoon's work to identify dozens on eBay alone. As to the big-time Far East pirates, well, as thermal says, rewriting EULAs isn't going to make the slightest difference nor banning DVD copying software. Fact is, it's likely none of those outfits are 'dedicated' pirates anyway, but that piracy is just one element of criminality embracing everything from child prostitution to people smuggling. Those gangs are the scum of the earth. To smash them will take law enforcement resources that's probably beyond the agencies in those countries anyway. . .

Unless, of course, the Hollywood fat cats behind this assault on consumers might like instead to plough some of the profits we give 'em into a 'fighting fund' designed to help resource those agencies (yeah, some hope).

Bruce Raynes Jun 14, 2005, 10:27am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
I think if you look were MS is headed ie "The Nexus" being placed in longhorn you will see it gets a lot worst.
Ms wants to stop you at the boot level so that should be a real treat for us all.
Bruce

FordGT90Concept Jun 14, 2005, 10:37am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Simple solution to the whole RIAA, copyright infringement crap:

Get some young bucks that know technology in the Congress and/or Supreme Court. As far as I know, no one is really even protesting what they are doing on the level (lawsuits primarily) they are fighting the general public.

Simple solution, counter sue them violating our privacy (RIAA especially).

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Ollie T Jun 15, 2005, 01:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: DVD copying software gets axed, what's next?
Bit like how they passed that law under pressure from FCC and RIAA and MPAA and everyone else for *all* new digital TVs to have compulsory in-built hardware DRM. So every TV and DVR produced had to have on-board DRM, and the consumer had no choice.

Then, a couple of months ago (with production well underway), someone turned round and said, "Hang on, this is actually ridiculously over-restrictive, unfair and dangerous". And everyone else said, "Oh yes, it is. We hadn't really thought about it". And then the law got overturned in the courts - so digital TVs are now (temporarily at least) back to normal.

Seems like all these DRM-crazy people just lean on legislature and manufacturers and get their own way with super-strict DRM-restrictions, and then it's down to everyone else to point out it's crazy and battle through the courts to hopefully get it overturned.

Surely it should be stacked the other way round.....?


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