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/ Forums / AMD doesn't trust Intel, should you care?

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Dave East Jul 01, 2005, 08:22am EDT Report Abuse
I don't think Intel will have anything to worry about. I see it every day. People, who know NOTHING about computers, ordering the almighty Pentium because they heard it on TV. The vast majority of which are also AOL (Internet on training wheels) users. There's a lot to be said for mega ad campaigns. You get your message out to a lot more people. Whether or not you have a good product, people will buy it because the TV told them to. AMD is without doubt, a smaller company that can't afford such a media blitz. Personally, I'm glad AMD put their money into R&D instead of commercials. That means that I can buy the best processor without having to pay for the Blue Man Group, or computer techs in clean room suits, dancing to disco. The problem that I see is that any company will go with what they think is the big seller. Right now, there are so many ignorant buyers that most OEMs will choose Intel. Big business will always profit from the stupid. Unfortunately, smaller companies with better products are often swept away.

Also, just because a lot of companies conduct business like Intel, does that make it right?

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leastcmplicated Jul 01, 2005, 08:57am EDT Report Abuse
I'm definitly not a fan of Intel, I think AMD makes a much better product... and yes, some people are ignorant when it comes to computers and just buy what they see instead of doing research... people trust advertisment, they trust word of mouth, and when Intel & Pentium is heard 80% of the time, what do you think they're going to buy? Fact is, Intel ownes virtually every niche that appeals to not only the uninformed, but the businesses and the budgeters. Look at Dell, almost every business you walk into are using Dell's... why? because Intel offered discounts to Dell if they only used their chips, enabling Dell to offer these "excellent" deals to the consumer... It saves businesses time and money to take 20 minutes and order 10,100, or 1000 pc's online or over the phone rather than paying for an employee to drive to a store, wait for a sales person, see if they have the pc's in stock, go to a cashier, pay for it, load it up in the
truck(s), and drive back. Also, the uniformed people want a pc to do what? you guessed it, surf the internet, write emails and use Word. thats it! they can get a pc WITH a monitor for <$500. If you didnt know any better wouldnt you buy it? Only people like us research, build, mod, upgrade and maintain our pc's... Who wants to restore an old '69 Ford Mustang, when they can buy a Kia for cheaper? People who arent interested in the *CAR*, just that it gets them from point A to point B. It does what they want, and thats all that matters. IMO, AMD needs to gather up some support and maybe get a commercial or two out there... hopefully they'll win this antitrust lawsuit and maybe they can get their product out to the masses and things will even out, hopefully with AMD taking over the marketshare.

"Log off, that cookies**t makes me nervous" - Tony Soprano
"I don't know what to believe, I just show up and breathe anymore"

Gamerz Jul 01, 2005, 09:08am EDT Report Abuse
AMD doesn't trust Intel, but then neither do most of us.

Plug & Play Jul 01, 2005, 09:26am EDT Report Abuse

Good points all, But back when Intel was just Intel they did make really good stuff. MMx technology brought a very good starting point for what we have today. They just got to caught up in there own hype and I love that AMD are giving them a good run for their money. But Intel are not dead yet. They will pull there socks up coz if they dont they are DOOMED !


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Amalfi Marini Jul 01, 2005, 11:25am EDT Report Abuse
Yeah, however, I remember when I upgraded my computer from a 386SX 33Mhz to an AMD 5x86 133Mhz. That was back in 1995 I think, and at the time a friend of mine was laughing at my 386 because he got a pentium 100Mhz and he could run any game at the time. So I I planned with my family to upgrade to that damn pentium processor and stay up to date, but however, when we reached the store, the price of the pentium processor was 2x or 3x more than the alternatives (Cyrix, AMD). I saw in the airport a banner of Cyrix and at the time it was quite famous here in Uruguay, being the 486 one of the best seller that year. Never heard about AMD at the time, so I wanted the Cyrix, 100Mhz. The guy in the store told me, "nah, go for the AMD 5x86 133Mhz, it's much more faster than the Cyrix and almost as fast as the pentium, and see the price, it's really cheap". Finally it convinced me to go for the AMD and I was proud of it. My friend, the pentium owner was upset to see that I got similar PC performance, expending much less money. LOL and we were just 13 years old.

From then to now I only used AMD, after that mighty 5x86 I went Athlon 750 SLOTA (which then I transformed to 950Mhz by soldering the microresistances). Then Atlhon XP 1700 and now I'm running an Athlon 64 3000 in my rig. I expended just 100+85+150=335$ on AMD processors in 10 years (only the processor).
But the point of all this, is that after the release of the Athlon, in any store I went they recommended the intel over the Athlon. Even now, when I asked for the Athlon 64, they told me that that AMD processor was too hot, too slow, and that they were planning not to continue selling it because of the thermal problems. So they recommended me a prescott instead LOL. I think Intel has something to do with that....

Tony Farrell Jul 01, 2005, 11:32am EDT Report Abuse

Just another sore loser company trying to make profits by crying....

Sun did it to Microsoft with java
The EU is doing it to Microsoft with MediaPlayer
SCO is doing it to IBM over *nix

the list goes on -

I do feel good about IBM kicking Microsoft about OS/2...
775 million IMO should have been 775 trillion
Microsoft screwed IBM over OS/2,
Microsoft not releasing code, witholding API
functions... OS/2 was SO far ahead of NT
in ALL aspects, but alas - another bump in the road.

but AMD doesn't stand a chance against Intel....
AMD = good product - less price,
Intel = good product - premium price, marketing muscle
Winner - Intel
AMD - another bump i the road

Monica Reategui Jul 01, 2005, 11:33am EDT Report Abuse
Not sure if they will win or not. Didn't AMD file suit to Intel before? but that was a different story. I agree with most of you about when users do not know about computers. For example, being a comp whiz, my family will trust anything I tell them to buy, because they don't know anything about computers. If I say Intel they go for it. If I say Macs(I love Macs) they will go for it. they come and ask me about Dells and Intel processors. I tell them they may be ok but I don't trust them. Sometimes they will go their own ways and buy those products because they trust the power of TV commericals. So it is true that marketing has its wonders. I had advice my family and friends that if they want a PC to just browse the internet and/or be able to write a letter then they don't really need a fancy top of the line PC. My mother has an old Compaq AMD processor for almost 8 years now and that baby still works like new! She wanted a laptop like i do but told her that PC is like new and should not be thrown away.(I gave her a laptop anyway) the real truth is, it doesn't matter what you just buy it matters what you buy and how you maintain it. I hope that even if they win or not, we still have options in the market to choose a top of the line or good cheap processors. I Wish luck to small businesses.


Michael Cruty Jul 01, 2005, 11:37am EDT Report Abuse
We should care when any company is breaking laws. Were it not for AMD the personal computer consumer would be almost totally at the mercy of Intel.

Amalfi Marini Jul 01, 2005, 11:53am EDT Report Abuse
To Tony:

AMD is not crying, just read the law suit document, if they can prove that Intel has been involved in these Illegal operations then why wouldn't AMD to suit Intel? It would be stupid if not. AMD has a point, just see what happened in Japan. The other suits you mentioned are not significative, the media player, sun java, etc, but here, AMD has the total right, and if they can prove that everything AMD say is true, then Intel will have to stop those operations and pay for damages. And that's all about.

Alex-E-C-396 Jul 01, 2005, 12:04pm EDT Report Abuse
The thing about Apple going Intel really chaps my hide. I thought they would want to go after performance like they did with the G-5, AMD makes all the Opteron chips and I would think Apple would be after a 64bit multi-processor capable CPU on the motherboard that is low cost. That whole thing about that Apple went with Intel is a huge blow to the consumer market and to AMD.
Does anyone know what Intel chips Apple will use? Are they going to be Xeons or Itaniums. Hopefully Itaniums.

Alexander E. Calvo
Everett Williams Jul 01, 2005, 12:21pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: AMD dual processors
Without AMD, we would probably still be sitting at PII level, maybe working on the the PIII. AMD has repeatedly forced Intel's hand. The absurd techniques Intel used to jack up clock rate on the P4 are a result of competition from AMD. Now, we have EMT64 and dual core, both resulting from AMD's leadership.

AMD should be able to benefit from it's leadership. Instead, Intel has resorted to bribes and intimidation to hold onto market share that it has not earned and does not deserve. The hand in the cookie jar needs to be amputated at the shoulder. In other words, Intel not only needs to be estopped and discouraged from it's current business practices, it needs to punished for it's past misdeeds. That will not necessarily balance the scales, but it will hopefully preserve some level of competition.

Lee Butler Jul 01, 2005, 01:16pm EDT Report Abuse
I sell PC's everyday to average joes and right enough lots of them come in asking for a Pentium but they all walk out with AMD :o) lol I think over the past 2 years ive sold 2 Pentium systems. Regards the advertising i think this kinda thing is great for AMD less cost than a tv ad and they get noticed!

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Frank Di Gioia Jul 01, 2005, 01:38pm EDT Report Abuse
people seem to miss the bigger picture , so ill put in in an example to make those especially sanders , more understanding as to what this is about. since you seem to condone the illegal. so ill make my example based on hardwareanalysis web sight. which i would expect you to defend intel regardless of illegal practices since the majority of your revenue keeping this web sight running seems to come from them , judging by the advertisements on each page. so heres an example.

lets say i run a hardware review web page, it has lets say 90 times the size hardware does in audience. but im not happy with that i want hardwares audience also. so i decide to get in contact with your advertisers, the ones who basically keep your web page alive , and say if you continue to advertise with them i will either not review your products and only review your competitors products , or i will threaten to not advertise there products. in the interests they will run there tallies and decide they are reaching a larger audience with me then they are with hardware, so to reach that larger audience they pull the plug on that advertising and suddenly hardware goes under, and a percentage of that audience stumbles into my websight so my audience has grown allowing me to now charge more for advertising. making my sight larger increasing bandwidth , and attracting more advertisers, just by crushing your web sight . in that scenario how many anti trust laws did i break, but you wouldnt care even though it was your company being hurt by it .

first off the only reason amd is gaining larger market share , is because more aqnd more people are building there own rigs. and when you build your own rig , you tend to research more about what your putting into it. hence why the majority of do it yourself rigs tend to be amd . but take the time one day and walk down a best buy , or comp usa . look at all the name brand computers Dell and such , and try to find one with an athlon64 based processor in it. it is known to be the better processor by far, yet for some strange reason companies dont want to use it. never really knew many companies that didnt want the best , unless there was an outstanding reason as to why.

Tony Farrell Jul 01, 2005, 03:24pm EDT Report Abuse
Blah Blah Blah -

AMD is crying, while using the court system as a tool - shame on them!!

<B>If you cannot compete - get out of the market!</B>

If on a street, there are two vendors selling fruit,
one has a HUGE set of signs, people wearing sandwich signs walking the streets
and all that jazz,
and another vendor, on the same street, selling LARGER AMD fruit, at a lower cost
using smaller signs - whos going to get the business - thats right folks -
the joint with the larger ad budget...
thats basic business 101

With the ad budget, and (i've heard) intel fruit stand pays the mom and pop joints up
to 50% of the cost of the mom and pop joints ads, as long
as they use an image of company that sells the fruit in each of the ads -
who's gunna get the sales - what mom and pop joint is going
to turn away a discount of 50% on thier ad budget by not using the logo,
or even the cute music da -ding da-ding...
While the mom and pop joint signs an exclusive with the provider
fruit company, they receive a discount on the price of the items

No one is holding a gun to the mom and pops joint
to force them to sign - so they sign, and they sell fruit...

all this while the other fruit stand down the block can't understand
WHY no one buys thier fruit and cries to the poilce officer
that they are being unfairly pushed out of the market...

I know your going to say - but Intel has a monopoly on the chip
market -
Well no they don't, there are hundreds of chip manufacturers
out there - motorola comes to mind...
but i don't hear motorola crying that intel is using
the monopoly angle to try and extract funds from a competitor, now are they?
I didn't think so...

Companies sign exclusive deals ALL the time - its done everyday.
Sign here, mr. customer and my company will knock 10% the price,
and we'll give you free shipping....

hmmm - Buy a Dell and get free shipping -
Buy my machine, mr. customer, and i'll give you free shipping....
Chances are the mom and pop will only buy one
computer, so - in essence - they are signing a
semi exclusive deal with dell.

As far as the SUN and Microsoft thing -
that was a TOTAL load of bull sh*t -
Sun cried, "microsoft won't include OUR software in THIER operating system"
whaaaaaaaa whaaaaa whaaaaaaaa

Sorry folks - but if i create an operating system,
and i don't want to include your crappy software
in my os - then i won't include it, and i'm not going to
pay you for not including it in MY operating system.

MS should do EVERYTHING in its power to keep
the Sun Java "infection" from being included in the
base operating system - if the user wants to install it,
then thats another thing, but in the BASE OS - NO WAY!!!

Just my opinion - i'm sure there will be LOTS of java zealots
that that'll upset - HA HA HA

Tony Farrell Jul 01, 2005, 03:28pm EDT Report Abuse

I've heard a couple of tales, but they are both rooted in a
dual core processor (one was 64 bit, the other was 32 bit)

I'm leaning to the 64 bit story myself...

Frank Di Gioia Jul 01, 2005, 05:07pm EDT Report Abuse
tony this one is just for you. i should enjoy this always do.

what the heck does advertising have to do with any of this, if no one minds me asking. intel and amd are not end product sellers. unless your willing to build your own system. 99% of the population doesnt build there own system , so advertising is a moot point. the only reason amd's market share has been growing is because more and more people are building there own end products. which is why amd's market share has been growing , because it is the better product. but we live in a society of instant gratification. the problem is go to a compusa or a best buy and try to buy a gateway or a Dell or something with an athlon 64 in it. the first thing the sales associate is going to tell you is if you want an athlon64 rig your going to have to build it yourself. which is why no matter how much they advertise they can never truly compete with intel. i mean if you think about it why does intel even advertise at all since the majority of there icome isnt from processor sales to individuals , most of them buy amd. advertising will only raise your debt if there is no end source to reap the benefit from. it would be like saying why is the little book store in los angeles failing they spend millions advertising in new york. advertising will do amd no good as long as intel has the death grip on computer manufacturers. before you wrote this article you should have researched the actual japan vs intel documents. basically japanese computer manufacturers came forward and said if they wanted to compete they had to sell intel only , if they sold any other processor in there rigs other then intel, then intel would retaliate by not giving them discounts or anything on there processors so they would no longer be able to compete with other end computer manufacturers. this article states no facts only opinions , so let me give you some facts.

Forcing major customers (including Dell, Sony, Toshiba, Gateway, and Hitachi) to accept exclusive deals in return for outright cash payments, discriminatory pricing or marketing subsidies conditioned on the exclusion of AMD;

*Forcing other major customers (such as NEC, Acer, and Fujitsu) into partial exclusivity agreements by conditioning rebates, allowances and market development funds on customers' agreements to severely limit or forego entirely purchases from AMD;

*Establishing and enforcing quotas among key retailers such as Best Buy and Circuit City, requiring them to stock overwhelmingly or exclusively Intel computers, thereby artificially limiting consumer choice;

*Forcing PC makers and technology partners to boycott AMD product launches; citing an alleged incident in which former Intel CEO Craig Barrett threatened Acer's chairman with "severe consequences" for supporting the AMD Athlon 64 launch. This coincided with an unexplained delay by Intel in providing $15-20 million (U.S.) in market development funds owed to Acer. Acer withdrew from the AMD launch in September 2003.

care to tell me what good advertising will do if you have the mafia making sure your product cant be sold at stores. get real and get a life.

Frank Di Gioia Jul 01, 2005, 05:34pm EDT Report Abuse
but lets go with your fruit business example , its fun in a childish way.

ok we have stand number 1 large signs lots of advertising.

stand number 2 small signs hardly any advertising. going to reverse the intel amd names of them though since it hypothetical.

stand 1 just went out of business with a massive advertising debt.

why you ask did the advertising stand go out of business.

easily actually the stand with the smaller signs had an exclusive contract with the growers in that country, so the big advertiser had to also import his fruit , adding to the net cost of the fruit, had to pay tarrifs adding to the net cost of the fruit, had to pay for that advertising , all of this went into the cost of the fruit. so the fruit was now way to expensive for him to sell even a single grape in that community. so the fruit stand owner tries negotiating with the farmers in the area, and they say to him sorry we cant sell to you because the owner of fruit stand number 1 also owns the only fertilizer business in the country, and he will not sell to any of the growers who also do business with you. so now your out of business. anti trust laws are in place for a reason, maybe you should take the time to learn about them.

Amalfi Marini Jul 01, 2005, 05:38pm EDT Report Abuse

Mike L. Jul 01, 2005, 08:56pm EDT Report Abuse
You all have extremely good points, very well put together. But while reading that article and all of your posts, something actually dawned on me; something I've always wondered. When was the last time any of you actually saw a commercial from AMD?

I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Jul 01, 2005, 10:59pm EDT Report Abuse
Dont get fooled, Intel has their good CPUs, for example the Pentium 3(Best Architecture for Intel) Northwood Line(400 FSB to 800 FSB) and the Centrino Line. But they seem to be trying to monopolize the market, same goes with a well known company that has a green eye for their logo

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OCGW Jul 02, 2005, 02:40am EDT Report Abuse
Intel is so big, & has so much money, (Influence)I doubt they will be brought to justice for their crimes in the U.S. {prob get another slap on the wrist (small fine)}

But law enforcement in Japan seems to be "unamused" by "outsiders" flaunting the law in their backyard



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