Considering AMD has the best Single Core Official 64 bit cpu out they need to advertise a little actually.

For me buying AMD, is more of a derivative of mistrust, and general dislike of Intel. Problem with these two companies is that there isn't a third one with products at least comparable to one. AMD, despite not gaining as much market as it would like, has done extremely well so far on the backs of enthusiasts, and is gaining some ground in the server market because many of a good product, and the fact that those enthusiasts end up working for these large companies. Or many of them are computer salesmen steering the ignorant towards a better, but not cheaper anymore, product.

How do they repay those who they owe most of their business too? Well they raise their prices to the point where Intel CPUs have become a more viable option! Consider that their bottom-line x2s start at twice the price of the slowest Intel dual cores, and the worst of all, their new FX-57 costs more than anything similar Intel has to offer at the moment! Yes, their products are faster, and more powerful than their Intel counterparts, but is a 7-10% gain worth paying twice the price at times? I don't think so! And don't forget that they don't beat Intel products across the board, and actually have a lag in many multimedia applications. So how can a company that spends so little on marketing, demand such a premium for their products? I think it's simple greed, and in that area they're starting to beat Intel very handily.

As for their lawsuit, well they can sue all they want! Let's say Intel for the time being holds back on their unsavoury practices, and AMD does get orders for more chips for the server, and desktop sector. What then? Do they really have the capacity to respond to such an increase in sales? I don't think so! Word going around is that part of the reason that the x2 is so expensive is to keep their sales low given their lower yields in comparison to the single-core yields. AMD simply cannot have everyone buying dualies 'cause they can't make enough of them to begin with.
As a matter of fact just imagine how much you, as an enthusiast, would have to pay for desktop CPUs, if their Opterons start selling like hotcakes and their limited manufacturing capacity gets devoted mostly to them! And they can screw themselves if they think I'm buying a stupid Sempron.It would be an Intel, and hopefully, someone would figure a way around their DRM technology by then.

I will keep it simple

1) Intel does not market a cpu compareable to the FX-57 to do a price comparison w/

2) AMD dual core cpu's should cost more, they have their higher end cores in the them, in sharp contrast to Intel making their dually out of lower end cores

OCGW

PEACE

well in defense of intel here , they have to make there dual cores out of low end cores , could you imagine the heat build up on a dual core presscott. my 1 hp marine chiller probably wouldnt be aqble to keep up.

people have said it before and ill say it again, intel owns the advertisement world, just by showing their procesors they make the easyly influenced, computer ignorant, and in my point of view; dumbarse american only know about their stuff. But if americans were really smart theyd know that that internet dohikie is in fact a great way to reserch snd learn to build your own computer. Finnally i say to all of you, as the universal word for great aste is CokaCola, the universal language for performance is Intel. p**ses me off, but it is so, and dont worry about the two brawling companies, sooner or later amd is going to rule and intel will be begging for mercy.

Oh and amd doesnt cry, they ust need a chance.

boy..... all the cheese company must be on overtime producing cheese for all this Whinnnnnnnnnnningggggg that is going on...

Rather than try harder and finding a better way to do things ....... but....nooooooooooooo the most easiest path is to WHIIIINNNNNNEEEEEEEEE and let someone else do it for you.

Well Frank, that is not the consumers fault why should they pay as much for a flawed product?

OCGW

PEACE

Yea yea yea,

AMD - still a cry baby - Intel AND AMD all stipulated that if you don't sell enough of our product
to meet your quota, then you will not receive your check -
BIG EFFN DEAL, it happens all the time - standard operating procedure.

If the construction crew doesn't complete the road by xyz date, then they get
a fine for each day its late - HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

Advertising has 100% to do with it, those companies that were mentioned,
Fujitsi, Acer, Digital General - sure they can sell a computer, but where is
thier advertising? Get your name in front of the public, drill it into thier
heads so many times that it is a common word - thats how your DRIVE
NAME BRAND RECOGNITION!

Intel = Name Brand
AMD = No name brand

Toyota = Name Brand
Lexus = Name Brand

Entry level car purcahse - Toyota
Upper Level car purchase - Lexus

Same company owns the car (just different names)

Now honestly - If the average consumer (mom and pop)
walk into a computer store - in a country where there is
no television (i.e. no tv ads)

And a honest saleshole tries to push
brand X with an intel at $500.00
or
brand Y with an AND at $450.00

then mom and pop might buy a AMD (saves them $50.00)

But if a gamer or AMD zealot saleshole tries to push
brand x with a "slower, less powerful" intel at $500.00
or
brand Y with a "faster and more powerful" AMD at $450.00

then yea, the mom and pop will definatelty purchase the
brand Y computer,
and the same can be said for the brand X
based on the salesholes angle for making a sale!

BUT where there is TV - a comercial that is drilled into
the customers brain through the slogan and the da-ding da-ding
jingle WILL bring the intel unit home, and will brag to the neighbor
next door on the super intel unit they just purchased,
even paying an EXTRA $50.00 above and beyond,
just so they can get the FREE shipping....


HAPPENS EVERY DAY


Do you honestly think Nikes will make you run faster than Rebok,
or jump higher???

ITS ALL IN THE MARKETING -

bottom line -

AMD is crying foul -
AMD cannot compete, and want to use the courts
and a tool to extract cash out of Intel.

Intel will not die based on this law suit, it just won't;
just as AT&T didn't die when they were broken up....

AMD should quit crying into their cereal and
start marketing - if they want to compete, thats
the way to do it - not by crying....

Just like Sun did with Microsoft.....
We are going to file suit if you don't include OUR
product in YOUR Operating System....

Whaaaaa Whaaaa Whaaa

Just look at the top three sponsors on THIS page....
Nvidia
INTEL
InFocus
( at the time of writing - they might have rotated out, but they are there at the time of writing)
BUT at the side - Ads by Google
AMD Dual Core and AMD opteron Dual Core...
Where is your eye drawn - top or side???
top of course....

AND just by looking blow the posts...
and AD for HP featuring Centrino....
I'm sure HP payed some cash to get the image below....

WHERE IS AMD???

NO WHERE....

so PLEASE tell me advertising doesn't have at least SOME
influence on YOU???
what kind of shoes are YOU wearing?






P.S. Frank Di Gioia
I do have a life, and I find it odd and offensive that YOU are telling ME to get a life...
You are typing at the computer as well as I am...
"Don't throw stones while living in a glass house"

Sorry my friend, but I have to disagree. Intel's greatest ever marketing coup d'etat was FORCING its vendors to put that dreaded "Intel Inside" on everyone of their ads, and TV commercials. To the great unwashed majority with no clue of computer chip architecture, or even enough knowledge to do a simple research on the "weeb" for hardware sites with updated benchmarks of comparable CPUs, it signified a vote of confidence from those in the know, the vendors, and a seal of excellence, which to us it clearly wasn't.
Well, as Eckhard Pfeiffer put it ten years ago, the "Intel inside" logo was something that "...outright accused the firm of competing with its customers by introducing the Intel Inside brand..." as quoted by The Inquirer in a recent article. Intel's virtual monopoly in the CPU sector, carrot enticements in the way of marketing dollars, discounts, and outright threats, forced most of these vendors to use the logo, to go along with Intel's campaign.

The problem with AMD is that now that they have finally achieved some type of success they are showing the same signs of arrogance and ignorance, and worst, towards those that made them who they are. Ok gamer, so you want a fast rig for your gaming? You'll have to pay big time to buy our CPU for your 7-10+% better framerate, and don't mind the fact that, for multimedia tasks your rig be second best.

You see folks that usually buy Intel's only need a system for internet browsing, messaging, and on the demanding side, cd and DVD burning. For those tasks the P4s are adequate, and for the more demanding ones, Intel is even better than AMD, and at a lower price point.

I'm surprised no one else around here sees my point about AMD. Granted, despite my musings, my next chip will be a 4400+, but I'm starting to view AMD with more and more suspicion as time goes by.

Arma;

I see what you are getting at but, As far as the last paragraph is concerned, the average consumer is entirely unaware of AMDs budget Sempron processors, which cost next to nothing. Sure they probably dont perform as well as p4s, but theyll get the job done! For example, I could make a web browsing computer for under (US)$350! And it would blow AOLs PC out of the water. but i wont even suggest puting a system like this on the market as I disagree with using computers only for the internet and a computer for less than (US)$700 is ridiculous since it cant do much more than turn on or off. And to return to the original subject of this forum, i only wish AMD would get more defensive against intel, and i hope they can expose intel for the liars they are!

It takes a war to build an empire.

True, that for people like you and me a just for internet, or other trivial uses is "insolence". However, since as someone that has devoted a lot of time on building computers, and someone who many people at my workplace seek advice from on what to by, I see that most people use them for just those trivial tasks. Many of them as a matter of fact, as they get better at it, do a lot of video and picture editing which for the most part require more powerful processor and lots of memory. Intel is, and all benchmarks back me up on this, much better at his than AMD, and cheap Semprons simply won't do. When people inquire me as to what system to buy, I simply ask them what they intend to use them for. If they say mostly gaming, I recommend AMD. If they say multimedia, I recommend Intel. If it's lesser internet browsing, and email checking I point them to a used computer store.

The reason I brought up AMD's new pricing schemes relates to the original subject in this context: if AMD, with its slight technological lead over Intel at the moment, decides to hold that as a ransom over the heads of the gamers/enthusiasts who so far have "spread the word" and bought their products religiously, what makes us think that they are any better now, or will be in the future if they win their lawsuit, and get the market opened up for them, than Intel itself? Though I was happy to hear AMD suing Intel, and I will be happier if "chipzilla" is put in its place, I'm also apprehensive about AMD's motives too, since they are starting show some of "Intelesque" traits.

Ill agree wiht Sander Sassen. article AMD if in Intels situation would do excatly what intel is doing now and so would I nor anyone else who had common sense in the industry.

but the questions is if in AMDs shoes would intel or even us do the same thing they are doing. I cant mix character with business and to say what Intel is doing is wrong would be unethical wouldn't u agreee,
Sander Sassen.

What Intel has been caught doing is wrong because it is unlawful

& where would we be w/ out law, & order

IMHO

OCGW

PEACE

So is it illegal for a company to pay for HALF the ad if they use the stupid logo?

IT IS NOT!

Intel pays for HALF of the ad if the ad contains the Intel Inside and a little more if they use the jingle

Intel cuts a deal with the OEM if they put the intel inside sticker on the case AND they
cut them a deal if the boxes the equipment comes in also has the logo

this is NOT illegal, this is BRILLIANT marketing!

Holding back rebates and cash backs if a company doesn't sell X number of units a quarter
is NOT illegal either... there was no gun held to thier heads -
they had lawyers look over the OEM agreement
(if they didn't, then they are at fault)

OEM agreements are contracts, if one side doesn't live up to its contractural
obligations, then reprcussions are well within the other sides rights!

free markets are free markets!

Excuse me, I assumed everyone had read up on this subject

Intel was telling OEM's that if they sell AMD cpu based PC's along side their Intel cpu based PC's that they would not sell them any more cpu's

That is a violation of US anti-trust laws

Anti-trust laws are in place to keep large corporations like Intel from using extorsion to maintain a monopoly, & stifling healthy competition

In the Japan Intel was Court Ordered to "Cease, & Desist"

Intel Accepts FTC's Cease-and-Desist Order in Japan

http://www.rednova.com/news/technology/140382/intel_accepts_ft..._in_japan/

In Japan the Corporate Offices were raided, & files seized

Japanese officials raid Intel's offices
Nation's trade watchdog probes anti-competitive conduct

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4693374/

The FTC in the US are readying their own case, here is where Intel agrees to settle 1 case in the US

Intel agrees to settle, but faces Intergraph in round two

http://www.my-esm.com/story/OEG19990312S0026

Old news dude

OCGW

PEACE

PEACE

MORE crying from AMD...

Now AMD says the INTEL C++ compiler makes code run slower
on AMD machine.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/12/amd_vs_intel_code/

MORE BS and crying from AMD

" Intel is, after all, under no obligation to ensure the code its compilers generate are optimised for AMD CPUs unless it explicitly says they are so optimised, which we don't believe is the case."

Enough AMD - just stop crying!

Actually, the question here is not whether Intel's compilers are optimised for Intel's chips and not for AMDs, but whether they are designed to intentionally cripple performance of non-Intel chips. That would be illegal, and, in my opinion, almost as criminal as writing a virus.
If its compilers are widely used and accepted by a large segment of the computer industry, then Intel has certain legal and moral obligations, given that it has achieved monopoly in at least that area.

I wonder if you followed the link to Slashdot.org, were the debate over this latest accusation is done at a much higher level, and by people who have a greater deal of knowledge about compilers, and programming.

Given that extensive benchmarks, and careful scrutiny of the code, which cannot be altered by Intel since it has already released, are easier to do than have CEOs of other companies back their lawsuit against Intel, the compiler improprieties are the easiest accusations for AMD to prove,

So that thing that OCGW was saying about intel "not selling" any more proccesor to companies that have AMD based pc alongside do you think thats why Alienware commercials only show intel based PC?

Sean, Alienware is a very small PC manufacturer, w/ low sales #'s, & a high profit margin

They are not even on Intel's radar

Intel was telling the major players, like Dell, they would hold back there shipment of thousands of cpu's if they started selling AMD based PC's too

OCGW

PEACE

oh i know now like gateway and s**t surprisingly emachines has AMD 64 LMAO i suppose that makes eMachines a little better (i have an emachines it sucks its intel)