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  Hm. I don't know about this one. 
 
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Riaan M Aug 24, 2005, 07:04am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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I don't think people realise the sacrifices that are involved in creating and producing music. I believe that artists should be awarded for those sacrifices whereby they enrich our lives.

How many MP3's do you have? C'mawn, be honest. A dozen? Hundreds? More like THOUSANDS. How many of those MP3's did you create yourself from your original media according to your "fair use" argument? A small percentage, I'll wager. Most of those MP3's are bootleg, AND YOU KNOW IT.

The simple fact of the matter is that people want stuff for free, and are willing to relax their ethics to get it. You might not be the sort of person who will shoplift from a music store, but you will gladly download a full-length song if you can find it on the internet. The end result is the same - IT'S STEALING FROM THE ARTIST.

I don't buy the specious fair use argument - the unfair use (in this case i.e copyrighted file sharing.) is as a direct result of your "fair use". It's a result of average people not policing themselves, and so the recording industry is going to start doing it for us. I also don't buy the argument that their business models are outdated....you don't see other industries remodelling because people steal. The problem is theft, not outmoded business models.

If your city has a high murder rate, you don't legalise murder in order to "solve" the problem, you spend resources in catching the criminals and penalizing that behaviour. I can't see why the recording industry has to make concessions just because people want free stuff. Music is a commodity and it costs money. It's capitalism. So get over it.

So that's what's happening here - the recording industry is policing its streets and protecting its interests. Nothing wrong with that. The only issue of contention is not how much revenue is being created, but what percentage of that revenue ends up in the pockets of the artists. Regardless of the figures, even if artists published themselves, them protecting their music is still a good idea, and if individual performers did it as opposed to a publisher, I'm sure you'd even see support for copy protection ('Protect the poor underdog artists'). But everyone is pointing at the big bad corporations and making a stink. As far as I'm concerned there's no difference.

Why should it matter to you where the money goes? If the price isn't right then vote with your wallet and the price will adjust. Once again, capitalism.

This situation exists because we, the consumers with our elastic morals, created it.



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Xris Aug 24, 2005, 08:19am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Once actors and musicians start making 60-70k a year like normal people then I'll care about them. Until then it's all fair game in my book. And believe it or not, but this move by the music and movie industry IS fair game. So I'm not all p**sy about it. I know Vista was going to be a POS operating system anyway. It took Microsoft years to get XP running correctly. This move by Microsoft will hopefully be their downfall, and they'll be foreced to make DirectX open source. Think about it, if Linux supported DirectX 99% of PC gamers would be running Linux.

As far as Intel goes... pfffffffffffft. Intel. Enough said.


BTW MAYBE 5% of my MP3s are bootlegs, and most of them are from TV shows that were never released to the general public. Meaning it was the ONLY way to get them.

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mykspawn none Aug 25, 2005, 01:16am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Ok first off the muscians get a small portion of the money from the sell of a cd they get there money from the concerts that they perfrom. so i dont really feel bad about that. also when napster was big do you not remeber the concerts that bands like limp bizkit and others would put on for free letting ppl know that not every band is like metallica and make you pay an arm and a leg to get s**tty music. and i totally agree with xris i sure as hell dont make millions of dollars and dont really like getting s**tty music. plus someone out there will crack this with windows and then it will just go back to being the way it is now . and i worked at wherehouse music for three years and have over two hundred cds so i dont mind buying them and own over two hundred dvd. so not everyone is how you think they are.

Wyatt Hatfield Aug 25, 2005, 01:24am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 25, 2005, 01:31am EDT

 
>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
I for one am going to have to use the arguement of I was never going to purchase it anyways. I have **,***,*** Mp3s.. ROFL!@ !! all those lan parties. Whew. Yeah It isn't like I'm selling them on the streets,<sarcasm> making money off their hard earned work </sarcasm> $20 for a CD??? Most of the newer stuff isn't even being written by the artists them self. This is pathetic.Oh I make my own music by the way, and I don't care at all if people download them, but then again that is just me. I think you should have to make your money in actual performances... Just my 2 Cents.

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Wyatt Hatfield Aug 25, 2005, 01:26am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 25, 2005, 01:29am EDT

 
>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Hey RIAA-n ...That's funny that u have the RIAA in ur name. Okay Peace out. Happy First Post.

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Sander Sassen Aug 25, 2005, 01:41am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Riaan,

"Why should it matter to you where the money goes? If the price isn't right then vote with your wallet and the price will adjust. Once again, capitalism."

Only recently the prices of DVDs and CDs have dropped, but they've been overpriced for well over a decade, despite the fact that manufacturing costs dropped to an all time low with the introduction of DVDs and CDs. As a result the music and movie industry has been making billions of extra revenue.

Sander Sassen
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Xris Aug 25, 2005, 02:35am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
I agree w/ Sander. My family and I own over 600 DVDs. I can buy a 50pk of blank DVDs for $10. I can make copies of all 600 DVDs for $80. Do I feel bad? Hell NO! I've paid more than enough money into an industry that can't even make Alien vs Predator a good movie, (I mean seriously... you just need Aliens and Predators killing eachother... and not have wussy ass humans getting in the way... :sigh:) My point with that is, if you haven't noticed the movie industry is making a lower and lower caliber movies. 99% of horror movies now a days pay more for the ONE A or B list actor than they do on the rest of the movie.

As far as I'm concerned, until there's a good reason for me to spend my hard earned money to make people who sit around thinking up new was to rape middle class or lower class Americans, I will take and advantage I can.

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Riaan M Aug 25, 2005, 03:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Having a sense of entitlement is a big problem. People think they are entitled to stuff. You're not.

Pay for stuff, and it becomes yours. It's a principle called capitalism. It's what tens of thousands of soldiers have fought and died for.

People forget too easily.


Josh Aug 25, 2005, 10:38am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 25, 2005, 10:44am EDT

 
>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
"You might not be the sort of person who will shoplift from a music store, but you will gladly download a full-length song if you can find it on the internet. The end result is the same - IT'S STEALING FROM THE ARTIST."
So, if someone sits down at a keyboard, and randomly hits 1s and 0s, and they come up with a song that had been made by a signer, would it be illegal? I know it's not ever going to happen, because the odds of it are too low, but music is all just 1s and 0s.

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
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Adam Kolak Aug 25, 2005, 10:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Wow i go away for Four days, and Intel and M$ make a scheme to kill MP3s, and almost every other kind of media out there. I still dont understand, what if i buy Windows Vista and run it on a AMD cpu, then does that take all the DRM stuff out, or do i have to keep running Win XP?

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Riaan M Aug 25, 2005, 10:59am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
"So, if someone sits down at a keyboard, and randomly hits 1s and 0s, and they come up with a song that had been made by a signer, would it be illegal? I know it's not ever going to happen, because the odds of it are too low, but music is all just 1s and 0s."

The singer would have to indicate the the new "work" is a derivative of the original (easy, just listen to them and compare), if so, the defendent will have to demonstrate how the "derivative" is the result of random keypunching.

The singer will sing the song, and the key puncher will sit with his finger in his butthole. Your little attempt at a technical conundrum is laughably simplistic.

Start talking sense and I'll listen.

Dublin_Gunner Aug 25, 2005, 11:04am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
?? Music is all 1's and 0's????

Where did you get that from? Last time I played my guitar, I'm pretty sure it was an analogue signal coming from the sound hole, or from my amp (in the case of my electric)

Anyway, back on topic. The amount of music thats downloaded, is a remarkbly small percentage compared to the amount of CD's that are actually sold.

The artist gets maybe 1-2% from the sale of the CD. Most of their money, as was stated, comes from touring and advertising/promotion and air play.

I couldnt give a crap if I have a copied CD, or downloaded an MP3, I do it very little anyway, as I just prefer to have the actual CD.

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Mike Burdett Aug 25, 2005, 11:08am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
RIAAN M "If your city has a high murder rate, you don't legalise murder in order to "solve" the problem, you spend resources in catching the criminals and penalizing that behaviour"

Ok thats a good plan and fair enough BUT you wouldn't arrest everyone and blame eberyone for it!!!!!!!
just because some people make copies for distribution does not mean everyone does so why punish everyone? aswell as the fact that Ipods and mp3 players are new out and not that cheap how can you rightfully say it is fair to stop people copying files to these, also the price of DVD and Music is ridiculous, even companys selling them for more reasonable prices like Play.com get stopped, maybe if they priced things more sensibly and were not so greedy people would not have to download files to keep up with the advancement of technology, and lets be honest how much are microsoft planning to sell this ridiculous software for £200.00 - £300.00 and honestly who is going to want to pay this to make half their techical euipment useless? (dvd writers, cd writers, ipod, mp3 player)

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Riaan M Aug 25, 2005, 11:22am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
I agree that's it's a slippery slope the policy makers are walking on. Banning filesharing is not the right way to go. File sharing is not the problem, it's the filesharing of COPYRIGHTED files. So stopping the sharing of COPYRIGHTED files is the solution.

Don't you see? DRM is trying to do exactly that. You can't ban filesharing, so you have to attempt to stop the copying process where it starts. That's EXACTLY what DRM attempts to do. If the hardware makes it more secure, then so be it. That's where the chipmakers come in.

If people cannot create copyrighted files, then they can't share them. Simple as that. But it won't stop casual filesharing of non-protected content. That's the idea.


Dublin_Gunner Aug 25, 2005, 11:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
On copy right infingement in general.

How many people do you guys know with dodgy OS(windows) or other copied software on their PC's?

Every single one of my mates with a PC has copied software on it, ranging from operating systems to Cubase!!!

I mean, c'mon, a little dose of reality here wouldnt go astray.

Not saying I agree with it, but you just gotta deal with it.

Every company on the planet that has a product to sell takes into account returned goods, damaged goods that would have to be thrown out, theft etc.

Why should the record industry have to be any different?

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Riaan M Aug 25, 2005, 11:40am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
I can't believe I'm reading these wholesale rationalizations of unethical behaviour.

So, If I go out and kill someone, it's okay because it happens all the time? And it's doesn't matter because the world has millions of people and the effect wont be felt?

Here's a clue. Catch!







Reason † Aug 25, 2005, 11:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
You make a couple good points, Riaan. Here's a couple I'd like to make.

as sander said, music (and movies) have been overpriced for much too long now. the artists get a very small percentage of the profits from the sale of CDs, a percentage that is not in proportion to the fact that THEY MAKE THE MUSIC. record companies are notorious for screwing their artists. salt & pepa, a multi-million selling group, went bankrupt, and pebbles greedy adherence to a ridiculous contract had a lot to do with that.

old blues artists got cheated out of hundreds of thousands of dollars; there was an effort to get them remunerated a few years back. i don't know how successful it was, but it shouldn't have been necessary to even have to try.

in other words, the record companies have been screwing both ends for years - they overcharge the consumer, and don't pass those riches on to the artists. this is a market correction - if CDs were half the price they are now, $8 or $9, i would buy a lot more and DL a lot less. also, if i knew the artists were getting a larger cut, i would feel guilty about taking money out of their hands. but as it is, it's like 50 cents per cd, that i may not have bought anyway, and the rest goes to the record companies and a bit to the retailer.


another reason is quality. record companies have been putting out loads ofs**t for years in the interest of making a quick buck. nurturing artists to let them develop and create great music is unheard of nowadays - if there's no hit, there's no sophomore album. Pablo Honey sucked - if it hadn't had Creep on it, there would be no The Bends, no OK Computer.

it goes the other way too. focusing on ONLY the hits means we get the likes of creed, britney spears, etc - mill-produceds**t, pures**t. this problem is brought on to a large degree by the consumers, though - they keep buying it. it's like responding to spam, why do they do that?

so the record companies have been screwing us and the artists two ways - the way i noted above, and by not giving us a chance to hear and the artist a chance to make music that could be wonderful, just because there was no top 40 hit.

well, i'm screwing them back. i downloaded the new metallica album just to delete it, because it sucks. a pointless endeavor, for sure, but it made me feel like i was doing my part to let the RIAA know they're right up there with the IRS in my book.

they've got lots of my money - more then they should. if they hadn't been screwing us for so long, i might feel a little bad about it. as it is, i just make sure to catch the bands i DL when they come to my town, and hope i don't get sued.

now, when it comes to fair rights, if i've bought the rights to listen to the music, as someone said, why can't i listen to it wherever i want? on my computer, in my truck, on my mp3 player, on my home stereo, at a friend's house, etc.

a friend of mine had his truck broken into a few years back and had all his CDs stolen. it was a bunch of weird indie rock crap that would maybe bring $1 each at a pawn shop, but it cost him several hundred to replace all that music. now he copies his cds and listens to them in the truck, as do i.

i managed to scratch my copy of RISC vs Reward beyond playability, but luckily, i had created a backup.

I absolutely love being able to make a mix CD without swapping 10 CDs for 17 tracks. the reason i can do this is because of MP3s.

finally (finally!), you DO see businesses remodel because of theft. small, expensive items get put behind glass. aisles are set up so that employees can easily see down them to see if someone is shoplifting. a local drugstore has mirrors at a 45-degree angle all around the tops of the walls so they can see, and they're not the only ones.

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Dublin_Gunner Aug 25, 2005, 11:46am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
Dont you think it a little odd to be comparing human life and murder to copying an mp3??


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Mike Burdett Aug 25, 2005, 11:49am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
slight difference though you wouldnt have two pay loads o money for that, n this is only a little bit of sofware, the main problem they have is they are trying to make too much money out of things, n stopping people copying things is ridiculous, yeah fair enough it is wrong to steal n all that but what about things i have already bought? what if a dvd i own gets scratched and i want to make a copy as some software will actually imrove the quality over the scratched area or i could of made a backup? now i just have to buy it again? also DVD's and CD's do not live forever the degrading of the quality is slow but does happen should we have to buy things new all the time? paying more money to the fat cats? i dont think so, the end of the day they are taking as much from us as we are from them

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Riaan M Aug 25, 2005, 11:50am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
The principle is the same. You're the one drawing an artifical line. There's a whole gamut of crimes from copying an MP3 up to murdering someone. Take your pick as to where you want to draw the line.



Reason † Aug 25, 2005, 11:58am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Hm. I don't know about this one.
murder \= stealing an album. quit trying to make the connection - there isn't one. to wit: take a life, that life is forever gone. take an album, even millions of them, and they can still be reproduced. at great cost, sure, but they are not extinct.

also, you said "Why should it matter to you where the money goes? If the price isn't right then vote with your wallet and the price will adjust. Once again, capitalism."

well, it DOES matter to me where the money goes, and so do you, RIAAn. it SHOULD go to the artists in much greater proportions than it does. if it didn't matter to you where it goes, you wouldn't complain about it staying in my pocket. i work for a corporation, too.

i am voting with my wallet - i'm not buying their crap, and i'm only supporting the bands i do like through the live arena.

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