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  Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this! 
 
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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Sep 09, 2005, 09:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Sep 09, 2005, 09:50am EDT

Replies: 27 - Views: 4767
nice topic, course to let ya know ATI has what is known as the Catalyst Feedback Crew, allowing us End Users to tell them of bugs and other weird stuff and problems, im wondering if nvidia has such a Crew aswell. Probably a Fix for this little problem and as well as Nvidias is to probably TURN UP THE ANISTROPIC FILTERING, Definition of Anistropic Filtering is- "A function performed by the videocard that reduces the tiresome shimmering effect that commonly results when high-resolution textures are moved from the fore-ground to the background."

Definition found in PC Gamer Fall 2005


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Thermalfreak Sep 09, 2005, 07:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
well it doesnt have a fancy name but yeah theres direct feedback for drivers, and also that fix for nvidia? no change in performance....shimmering was just a bug with AF, its gone....

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
Promethius Sep 09, 2005, 07:56pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Now that just takes the cake. Why is ATI pointing out NVIDIA's problems when they do exactly the same?

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varun rao Sep 10, 2005, 12:52pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Sep 10, 2005, 01:03pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
I'd like to see some proof to this ATI accusing Nvidia business. I dont believe a word of it.

This in my opnion is a very biased stand point. Lets review this shalle we...
Nvidia had cheated on their drivers to up the perfomance.
ATI supposedly pointed this out

Nvidia corrects this in their next issue and suddenly they are forgiven whilst ATI stand accused of a hedious crime.
Whats worse is that this is being passed of as a bug in their 77.77 drivers.
In that case why cant a similar bug show up in ATI's drivers?.
A bug is something u cant be prepared for , if Nvidia can make a mistake, so can ATI. So Mr Sander why pray are you pointing this fault in ATI's drivers while the original accused got away without so much as a comment.

Very unfair ....... very unfair.

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Thermalfreak Sep 10, 2005, 05:00pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
i dont get your comment....

nvidia fixes the `bug` and the shimmerring is gone....and theres zero change in performance....meanwhile ati has the exact same problem and they accused nvidia of

therefore theyre either being hypocritical and are chating....or....they both had a bug plain and simple and ati was just plain dumb because one part wasnt talking to the other and they didnt realise they had the same bug....

if its a bug...then ati should fix theirs too....if its a cheat...then ati should fix their own cheat too...

either way ati was too quick to make an accusation bug or not....

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
varun rao Sep 11, 2005, 04:01am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Yes,.... I'd like to see some proof to the claim that ATI accused Nvidia..... The whole sentiment in the article revolves around that hypothesis.
In other words I feel the gist of the article is either unwarranted or based on a misunderstanding.
With all due respect Sander, could you clear this up for me please.



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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Sep 11, 2005, 04:12am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
well it is obvious that the host of the site is a Nvidia and Intel Person, which is fine

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dark Sep 12, 2005, 08:28am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
I think Sander slams ATI/Nvidia and Intel/AMD equally and without bias.

What surprises me is that any of them bother to contact him anymore about their products. :-)

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Brian Sullivan Sep 12, 2005, 08:56am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
I have noticed other lockup problems with ATI that don't exist with NVIDIA. I have always been a fan of "what works", not in "what company sounds good". I have used NVIDIA because their stuff worked and was fast. I used ATI to uncover the cloud of "not knowing". I was happy to see this article since I have had no response from ATI as to what they are going to do about their driver issue and anytime I sent an email to NVIDIA it was answered by a tech within 48 hrs. Interesting but not compelling to be pro company either way. I have two machines with these specs.

P4 3.2GHz
Abit IC7-G
1GB OCZ DDRRAM 3200
ATI X800Pro 8X AGP
2 200 GB WD SATA HDD
RAID 0
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Standard settings in bios no OC and is super fast thanks to the mobo and raid.

P4 3.2 GHz
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The second machine scored higher in benchmarks for 3d perf but the first one quality is better. In other words if it wasn't for the numbers on the scores and you just had to watch it I would say the first one blew the second away, but when the scores publish they say a different story. Weird, but it goes to show you that if it looks good, sounds good, and plays good, then it probably is good.



Sander Sassen Sep 12, 2005, 09:03am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Varun,

'Yes,.... I'd like to see some proof to the claim that ATI accused Nvidia..... The whole sentiment in the article revolves around that hypothesis.'

ATI sent out a mailer to all press pointing towards the findings of the German website that initially found the shimmering issue.

Regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Brian Sullivan Sep 12, 2005, 09:27am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Airman,

Maybe there are reasons for Sander's bias. Who cares anyway. I just think his writing style is hillarious and worth reading no matter what you use; furthermore, I think he picks the stuff that works and that is important as well as raising questions and invoking some real thinking towards what is at the root of certain issues in technology.

Regards,
Brian Sullivan
CEO Wingate Consulting Group

Mort1616 Sep 12, 2005, 11:04am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Everytime Sander does an article and slams something, he gets accused of having bias one way or another. But as he has explained before, he just slams the products that don't do what they say on the tin, or are just plain crap.

Also if you read the article again you'll notice that he only mentions what happens but doesn't seem to make a judgement, only comment on the facts.

Why don't you try and re-read the article before or during your comments so that you actually write something useful.

I'm a mawg. Half man. Half dog.

Hey, I'm my own best friend.

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GiGa BaNE Sep 12, 2005, 12:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
I dont often have time to read these news bulletins and even less time to respond to them, but i think that hardware analysis reviews are very good at providing the low down on all these companies involved in making our computers what they are today.
I am an ATI user at the moment, and i will happily say that to moan about a rivals faults and yet have the very same faults is hypocrasy to the extreme, now i am happy enough with the tech, as a rule it does it's job. However that said, not a one of us wants to pay good money to see these companies waste it on fud campaigns. NVIDIA and ATI get your act together, stop trying to get the one up in the marketing world and focus on the product. otherwise you both may face extinction as a younger more focused company rises up the ranks as weve seen in so many other industries.
GiGaBaNE
May the fps be with you.

Brian Sullivan Sep 12, 2005, 12:16pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Opinions are like .....
you all have probably heard the cliche but here they are truths and in those truths are insights that go beyond the marketing techniques or the "who do you like this month club", they uncover what works and what doesn't and they create a focus that inspires bringing out that truth. One of those truths is if NVIDIA is making a better product I'll use it. Another one is if you or another professional inform me of issues I'll investigate until I trust you. It's interesting to see what transpires between opinions as the focus shifts from the initial subject matter. To understand this look at the last few posts and then look at the subject of the thread. This isn't a bad thing its great! It is inspiring to see people shoot it down and to see others defend it.
Sander, I don't know you but you speak truths that are, so far, believable and worth listening to. I get that there is good to be said about good products and to some narrow minded individuals that seems like a bias. Kinda like "he doesn't like my team cuz they loose all the time" well...yeah, nobody likes a looser and nobody really likes to be alone either so I am inspired by men like Sander who take the time and use their experience to get the details and then have the integrity to sit back and listen to the "shit flinging" that can happen while standing behind what has been discovered. Gandhi said once that a man be slow in forming his convictions but then once they are made he must defend them til the end. Sander, you are giving us a forum to do just that. Thank you.
Brian Sullivan
CEO Wingate Consulting Group

Brian Sullivan Sep 12, 2005, 12:25pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
GiGa BaNE,
Now that we're back to the subject, how about we send that message to ATI and NVIDIA? I think you're right. I swing both ways cuz I like what I've seen from the products, but the BS as it is and as you have said is ludicrious and is normally seen in politics. I trust this site to provide me with information that is useful and it has never let me down. I like the way the articles are written even if I don't agree with the tone, there is no disputing the effort put into uncovering the truth or asking the cutting questions. The question is as a part of the greatest single entity that affects a companies focus on their products and their efforts what can we do to communicate this "Stop the sh*t flinging now!" message or as you said "knock it off" message to both of these companies? Can it be done? yes Should it be done? i don't know Would it be fun? probably
Regards,
Brian Sullivan

Craig Berlin Sep 12, 2005, 02:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
I just upgraded from a GeForce 2 to a brand spanking new ATI 9250 for fifty bucks. The drivers work and I'm getting wicked headshots in Enemy Territory at 800x600x16 resolution.

Yes, I'm behind the curve but having fun!

If nVidia had an equivilant card for the price, I might have bought it, but they don't, so I didn't.

And sites like these help me make informed hardware purchasing decisions. (Not this site in this particular case, but whatever).

Trenchcoat Sep 12, 2005, 10:19pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Sep 12, 2005, 10:23pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
perhaps a little off topic....

but brian sullivan... to get full potential from the 6800U, a P4 3.2G processor ain't gonna do it justice...

the origanal reviews of the 6800U used a P4 3.2, and my AMD 2700 t-bred paired with a 6800 GT did as good or better.

now, my AMD64 3700 san diego paired with PCI-Express 6800U blows them both out of the water... both quality and performance wise...

and remember, i don't have top processor from either manufacturer... so my system will get blown away by the top of the line stuff...

i hear you NEED an FX-55 just to run SLI 7800GTXs without problems.... but thats just what i hear...

EDIT: sorry for the seemingly biased approach, just using examples of the systems i currently own... as i'm not qualified to speak for the ones i don't own... and i wish i had an italics lock on the keyboard so i could use it instead of caps when i want to emphasize something. italics look so much more professional...

back to the topic....

i see it more and more... some person or company points out another's fault just to get out of the spotlight for a second... it's called playground bullying in grade school. and YES i AM calling the PRACTICE childish...
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Brian Sullivan Sep 13, 2005, 12:32am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Right on man,
I have not experienced AMD at all. And I admit that I jumped on the 6800U before it had time to mature with its drivers, Thanks for the feedback. I also agree with Italics, interesting point, you could I supose get used to pressing ctrl+i all the time but who wants to do that? I will have to go down the AMD road soon when I can afford it, having bought Intel I'm broke ;P LOL Anyway, I've heard, but not seen, enough proof in the pudding that AMD has a few things over Intel and that is fine. I am glad to hear from you that my 6800U may have a place in this world other than in the return bin from where I bought it. Thanks for the insight.
Brian Sullivan

john smith Sep 13, 2005, 09:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> ALWAYS THERE
Sice I have owned 9700pro and then later x800 xt pe, the shimmering artifact has always been present (since as early as Catalyst 4.3 or so). It has not been brought to the community's attention until the 7800gtx shimmering problems.

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Sep 14, 2005, 09:16am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
thats strange actually as ive never experienced such a bug with the system below and also my laptop im on as im writing this, to let all ya know this Mobility Radeon 9800 256 has Stock Clock of 351 Mhz VPU and 297-300 Mhz RAM, well ive overclocked it up to a Max of 461 Mhz VPU and 392 Mhz RAM, course ATM im using Unian Catalyst 4.12s with the original ATi Tray Tools that came with the driver set, I also found out that ATi Tray tools is incompatable with Hyper Threading, as HT is enabled- Tray tools causes the Vid driver to go into a infinite loop, Leaving HT off permantely fixes this problem, course i should report this to the original creator of the Utility.

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Brian Sullivan Sep 14, 2005, 12:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: ATI texture filtering quality? Shimmer this!
Yeah you should. The more good techies like yourself that send quality feedback to the creating companies and developers the sooner fixes are developed and the sooner better developing is done. At least one would hope. As for HT I've been hearing for a while that HT should be disabled when your sole purpose for the machine is gaming. It's not just ATI but NVIDIA as well from what I've heard. I've got probs with my 6800U benchmarks so I'm going to try that when I have a "dull" moment. The probs aren't in the scores they're in the visual display, there are a lot of light flashes etc that seem to go on during cpu testing. Guess that says alot there doesn't it. I'm almost convinced that disabling HT will solve this. I'll let you know.


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