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  Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down? 
 
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Mike L. Jul 25, 2006, 11:04am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
I apologize, it did sound a bit fanboyish, but ATI does get on my nerves sometimes. And yes I do own an ATI product, and one of which I returned to the store about 3 days later.

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Stuart K Jul 25, 2006, 07:52pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
I always saw ATI as an also-ran second or third best in the graphics market, going all the way back to EGA days. They have _never_ been able to get good drivers out in a timely fashion. They've also always seemed to play second fiddle to companies like Matrox, 3dfx, and Nvidia.

About the only thing ATI does halfway decently is embedded graphics chipsets like my Sun uses. I've had a couple of Radeons and they definitely don't stand up to Nvidia. Oh, yeah, ATI doesn't stand behind their products either. Their warranty and support are just about useless. :-)

AMD would have been far better off buying Nvidia than ATI. What were they thinking? :-)

B34NS Jul 25, 2006, 09:18pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
think of this in terms of say if.....a dairy bought out an egg farm, two distinct products, same geared consumer roughly, why would this be upside down in the world? I seem to think it wouldnt be any different with amd and ati, sure big differences for us, to them this isnt about amd wanting to fight Nvidia and intel LOL quite the opposite, 1st thing to realize, Intel hasnt acquired nvidia and from what I now in the tech industry it more than likely wont if not at all. Nvidia has and still is a competitor or amd and intel, obviously becuase it makes products 3rd party and has market leverage over both amd and intel. Nvidia is in a good position, just because intels will have some enthusiast models doesnt mean Intel has quit production and fired its workers on it own chipset division. Now for the estimated loss of crossfire and intel, this could happen full scale, but by law there would still be 2 chipset makers, and countless other ones, sis, lol, but they are there. Ati being integrated is great for amd make no mistake they just didnt do it for kicks and giggles. they knew by taking away part of the enthusiast market from intel would be a nice move and a smart one at that. and why not, times are good enough as rissky as it is, it could be great for tech as a whole. More competition hasalways proven to be good for the consumer. no one ever said intel couldnt buy chips from ati either thatd be against alot of laws.......its up to amd if they want to sell to intel catch me drift?

Albert Crocker Jul 25, 2006, 10:57pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
ATI is a better choice than NVDA for a buyout. ATI's market cap is $6Bn on $3.7Bn in revenue, with a P/E of 15 and $3.97 earnings per share (Return on Equity: 44.8). Compare to NVDA with a market cap of $7.1Bn on $2.5Bn in revenue, with a P/E of 23 and $0.88 earnings per share (Return on Equity: 20.4). ATI has the stronger fundamentals; stronger than AMD's own.

NVDA
Market Cap: 7.138 Bil
Sales: 2.474 Bil
P/E: 23.01
Earnings/Share: 0.88
Return on Equity: 20.40

ATI
Market Cap: 5.999 Bil
Sales: 3.701 Bil
P/E: 15.03
Earnings/Share:3.97
Return on Equity:44.80

AMD
Market Cap: 8.617 Bil
Sales: 5.91 Bil
P/E: 18.35
Earnings/Share: 0.97
Return on Equity: 9.40

INTC
Market Cap: 102 Bil
Sales: 37.11 Bil
P/E: 15.95
Earnings/Share: 1.10
Return on Equity: 19.50

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i7-920 @ 3.3 | GA-EX58-UD5 | 6GB OCZ 1600 7-7-7 | 4870X2 | ~7.4TB Storage | PCP&C S750 | BenQ FP241W | Win7 64
GODWHEAT Jul 26, 2006, 01:50pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
i for one am not happy.
amd is going down and now they are trying to take ati with them.
it's not a good day when a second rate cpu manufacture buys a first rate gpu manufacture.
it's not good for the price market or gpu development.
now you will see amd draining the brains of ati.
as for the unified cpu + gpu as if that's a good idea (maybe for emachines or dells).
i guess we have to wait and see .
its like the nvidia buy out of 3dfx.
you can't beat them buy them.

SEE PROFILE FOR 3 MACHINE SPECS
Albert Crocker Jul 26, 2006, 08:18pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Ridiculous. AMD is not buying ATI because "they can't beat 'em." They don't even compete directly with each other; they are complementary. And where have you been for the last 2 1/2 years? AMD has been wiping the floor with Intel's horrendously inefficient (and overpriced) NetBurst CPUs since the introduction of the K8. Intel is only JUST NOW coming back to take the performance crown from AMD with Conroe. I anticipate that Intel will be in the lead for awhile, but the pendulum will swing back eventually, as it always does. Thank God, too, because this fierce competition is what keeps these companies constantly researching ways to make a better product, higher performance, smaller size, less heat, less cost to manufacture, etc., etc. It'd be foolish to dismiss AMD at this point. Conroe has put just as big a fire in AMD's belly as K8 did for Intel.

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i7-920 @ 3.3 | GA-EX58-UD5 | 6GB OCZ 1600 7-7-7 | 4870X2 | ~7.4TB Storage | PCP&C S750 | BenQ FP241W | Win7 64
G. G. Jul 27, 2006, 12:22am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
regarding licening janked by Intel away from ATI rumor.........

" ATI quashes false Intel license rumour " -- http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6281

ATI official line : "There is no truth to the rumor that Intel has pulled ATI's chipset licence. We continue to ship Intel chipsets under licence." -- Phil Eisler, SVP & GM, ATI Technologies Inc.

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Jose Garcia Jul 27, 2006, 12:33am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Yes, I agree to what albert says right above me.

The AMD and ATI merger will have effectively doubled their knowledge of Processors.

Listen, AMD knows how to make a powerfull CPU. If AMD takes their CPU know how and injects their brains into ATI's graphics cards, could you imagine what kind of performance increases ATI cards will see over NVIDIA?

And intel is working by themselvs as is Nvidia. so,

It sounds to me like the whole ATI / Nvidia battle is about to heat up even more...right alongside the AMD / Intel battle! WOW.

guru Shane Jul 27, 2006, 01:41am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Jose, that's pretty rational thinking. In fact, that is exactly the reason that I could see Nvidia and Intel merging. If they don't merge totally, they will have to at least strengthen their relationship in order to keep their edge. Intel currently has the Conroe and Nvidia has the 7900 series, but the new technologies that will emerge from this merger will most likely strike back hard. It will be interesting to see what's going on this time next year or perhaps the year after that.

ian elliott Jul 27, 2006, 07:17pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
How will this effect performance of an ATI card on an Intel system or Nvidia card on an AMD system. Will future ATI cards like DirectX10 cards show greater benchmark on an AMD system because of this?

ATI could just be a bit sloppy when it comes to optimising drivers on Intel systems as to claw AMD back up.

Altogether I'm not liking the idea if that is the case. Also AMD had to borrow $2.5Billion to buy ATI so how is this going to effect future development of AMD processors, are they going to suffer because of too many finger in the pie (what ever the saying is)



ian elliott Jul 27, 2006, 07:22pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Albert Crocker I think he was saying that because AMD can't beat Intel that they are buying ATI, maybe to stop the going under.

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Jul 27, 2006, 07:35pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
ATI isnt doing a full merger like what HP and Compaq did few years back, more like a Partnership, like what Intel and Nvidia did a few years back, Contract and then new contract with the NF 4 chipsets for Intel.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
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Dublin_Gunner Jul 28, 2006, 05:06am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
No Airman, its a complete Merger / takeover. ATI will more or less become a department of AMD.

AMD completely bought them out, thats not a partnership.

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Jincalo Fasa Jul 29, 2006, 01:16am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
I personally don't think nVidia is going anywhere. nVidia has seen increased sales from AMD's A64's and has given them good chipsets all along the way. nVidia also released the first SLi chipset for AMD processors. The first quad SLi was in a Dell, but the first quad to really hit the market ran off of an AMD. I don't think nVidia wants to sever their relationship with AMD just yet, and I don't think ATi has an effect on it. After the way nVidia bought 3dfx, I don't think they will be willing to sell themselves for even a high price. nVidia has been doing very well on its own. AMD and ATi more recently, haven't.

Mike L. Jul 29, 2006, 02:35am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Well said. And like I mentioned earlier, ATI was apparently dropping in the stock market. So this move was also generated not only to join forces, but to get them out of some hot water too.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
Wildwood Aug 05, 2006, 01:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Some of you have hit the mark on the head. I believe this is all about future proofing AMD. Intel IS talking about moving the graphics back onto the processor. This would take the form of another core on the die. The reduction in latency this would bring about would allow for a a lesser GPU being needed. Thus reducing costs. Did anyone here know that Intel graphics chipsets are the #1 selling GPU's? Well they are. And this would allow Intel to dominate the desktop market. Lets face it. We are the few and the proud who use top end graphics. The other 90% of the PC market uses on-board graphics. By AMD and ATI merging, they have the ability to do the same thing. AMD will help ATI improve their GPU. And ATI will help AMD with improved core logic. And they both will be moving to 65nm soon. Additionally, ATI does have experience in making chipsets. They weren't the best by far. But they can and have done it. With ATI's assistance, I believe they may try it again.
So, in my opinion, this is a VERY good investment for AMD & ATI.
Also, as for nVidia, I believe their death knoll is at hand if this goes the way I believe it will. Sure, there will always be a market for add-on graphics. But it will be a huge drop in market share, especially in the mobile market, for nVidia. They now have a nice little niche there. But with Intel & AMD moving to on-die graphics, and Intel using and improving their crappy little GPU's, where will that leave nVidia?


Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Aug 05, 2006, 01:43pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Josh, Ondie Graphics are Lowend parts, top end will still be on a addin board.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Wildwood Aug 05, 2006, 06:03pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
I believe that I said that Airman. The point is that the market share left for nVidia will be dramatically reduced if it goes the way I believe it will. And I don't believe Intel would have anything to gain by teaming up with, or owning nVidia.
Of course, there is the possibility that I'm way off base here. But I don't think that I am.

I'm in the process of buying more AMD stock. That's how much I believe in what I'm saying. The next 3-5 years will tell.


bonfire-db Aug 05, 2006, 07:02pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
I haven't read all of the forum posts here, so I'm probably repeating people, but I do know this:

I attended Fragapalooza 2006 last week, the largest LAN event in Canada. The main sponsors, nVidia and Intel, both made presentations. Intel's presentation included the Canadian unveiling of their Core 2 products, and most benchmarks were taken with nVidia products. However, during nVidia's presentation, the question I most wanted to hear answered was asked: "Will nVidia continue to support AMD motherboards following AMD's buyout of ATi?" The answer was a resounding yes. In fact, according to the presenter, 52% of all nVidia's chipset sales were to AMD-processor motherboards. So no, that will not be a problem. And although Intel and nVidia appeared to be taking a much friendlier business stance towards each other, neither one mentioned any possibility of a merger, and both stated that intercompatibility will remain (for example, Crossfire on Conroe, which is already reality).

Again, I probably repeated someone, but this came straight from the companies.

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Mike L. Aug 06, 2006, 01:27am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD merges with ATI, the world turned upside down?
Well, I don't a think merge between Intel and Nvidia is neccessary anyways, I just don't see it happening to begin with. But as long as I can pop some quad SLi into an Intel/Conroe based motherboard, then I'm happy.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...

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