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/ Forums / Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
 

  Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag? 
 
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CrAsHnBuRnXp Oct 20, 2006, 05:59am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Well said Sander. I couldnt have said it better myself. Honestly, I dont know why AMD and Intel are really bothering with quad core technology if we havent utilized dual core yet. Its mainly who wants to be the better competitor and money. I personally dont think they really care about the software catch up (or lack thereof). Each company wants to be number one. But hey, Im not going to complain.


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Dublin_Gunner Oct 20, 2006, 07:04am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Well for exactly what applications do you refer to? games?

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. There are plenty of people that would put a quad core to great use at home, and without the need to purchase a multi processor server type system.

I for one (and a good few of my friends) record music using the likes of Cubase & Logic Pro etc. Multiple cores come in great here. Encoding the audio afterwards as well.

Fair enough, for the average user / gamer, they wont offer anything. But do you really think a €1000 CPU is aimed at the 'average' person? Intel has already stated they expect it to not even take up 4% of their sales, so I think their position is quite apparent.


If you dont need a quad core, why would you buy one? And if you did buy one, and cant put it to ue, well you've only got yourself to blame.

I'm sorry, but your complaints hold no weight.

Why not moan at the software houses about not developing enough multi-threaded software.

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SuPeR Xp Oct 20, 2006, 07:20am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
CrAsHnBuRnXp said:
Well said Sander. I couldnt have said it better myself. Honestly, I dont know why AMD and Intel are really bothering with quad core technology if we havent utilized dual core yet. Its mainly who wants to be the better competitor and money. I personally dont think they really care about the software catch up (or lack thereof). Each company wants to be number one. But hey, Im not going to complain.


I personally think we should stop with Quad-Core's well, at least for 5 years or so. I think this is all we would need to experiment with. We can really benefit with 4 CPU's on the one die IMO. But the industry is moving faster then fast itself.

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Supreet Virdi Oct 20, 2006, 07:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Guess, Sander haven't heard of 'Alan Wake' yet :D

Eitherway, this thing hardly matters to me, as far as I could buy a Processor well within my budget, and suits my need, everything is just fine.

This is 100% guaranteed that Multiple Core is future, to increase the computational power this approach is the only solution for now. Scaling a sole Processor's frequency requires a lot more, and it's impossible to do it without proper fabrication technology.

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Michael Miller Oct 20, 2006, 09:53am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Quad-Core is actually quite useful and needed for a small portion of us who actually use software that takes advantage four cores. Software like 3D Studio Max, After Effects, AutoCAD, Combustion, Cinema 4D, Lightwave 3D, Maya, Modo, Softimage|XSI, Photoshop, Premiere Pro, Pro Engineer, Zbrush, and more would greatly benefit from 4 core cpus. Some of these would even benefit from two Quad-Core cpus(8 cores) but like I said before this is only the DCC and CAD feild. While I agree with Sander she failed to mention that there is still a market for Quad-Core processors, even if its only a small group.

Supreet Virdi Oct 20, 2006, 10:10am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Yea, and not to mention the need for multiple core in Server/Workstation arena. This is assured that we all will benefit from multiple cores, however, the challenge is to make multiple core to perform even more efficiently.


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Max Lindholm Oct 20, 2006, 10:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
The only application that I've used that actually used both of my cores was DVDShrink...holy cow was I impressed, 8.5GB shrunk down to 4.7GB in 14 minutes =)

Mathew Everett Oct 20, 2006, 10:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I guess you left out the entire fact that some people like to run multi programs like 3D software and or image editing software at the same time that will make good use of multi core CPU's. Dual Core and Quad core will allow anyone to open and close programs much faster in my case I am opening 75MB image files that can grow to over 300MB now in some cases I like to have a 2nd instance running, and have seen huge performance increase with dual core and can see the benefits of Quad core.

Sure games will not see a huge increase if any as they are not all multithreaded, but having a quad core would allow for uses to double box on one PC. If they know what they are doing….

Michael Miller Oct 20, 2006, 11:04am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I always have Maya and Photoshop(or Bodypaint 3D) open at the same time. Only a very small percentage of people need or would benefit from quad-core processors. Those of us doing CG and image editing see quad-core as a god-send. Oh and if your doing HD video editing then quad-core is almost a must.

dark41 Oct 20, 2006, 11:10am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Its great to see that I'm not the only one enjoying the benfits of a dual core CPU now, even if the author doesn't get it. :)

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Darren Reynolds Oct 20, 2006, 12:33pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I bought two dual core PC's (4400+ and a 3800+) and have 3 older single core 2400+ XP PC's - all with high end graphics cards (7900GT / 6800Ultra) and heaps of RAM, and they all run most of the games out now - no complaints from the kids ... er or me.

I do notice that sitting here typing to you merrily away, with an NCVER research paper and my own paper in progress open (with large imbedded tables for a course outline sitting in the memory as well), while encoding a DVD, running an extended search on an academic database online, and sucking on the torrent sauce bottle is all relatively effortless on a decent dual core with a gig of RAM or better.

Trying to do that much on a single core machine (of any ilk) is nigh on impossible unless you have the thing running on ice and the applications are "happy" to work together!!

I pushed an XP PC I had to 2.85Ghz under a homemade chiller / water system, pushed a P4 single core to critical mass (4Ghz) and neither of them could do much past run one or two tasks without falling over in defeat. Great for games ... but thats it.

I do agree that many games designers will need to really make a lot of use from multiple cores with the next generation of video cards nearly upon us though. I like playing my games with plenty of eye candy.

My point is that any dual core machine (I have plenty of Intel Pentium D's at work too) is a real boost if you do some serious stuff on a PC ... whether it be productivity or fun. I'd imagine the quad's would be just as good - though the Intel's lack of a decent HT system is a real concern for more parallelism.

Ed had similar concerns here ... though he keeps going on and on and on ... and so on:
http://www.overclockers.com/tips01045/
http://www.overclockers.com/tips01040/
http://www.overclockers.com/tips01035/

Your article is a better read and at least the Intel Fanboistic tone is missing.

I am interested in how the new G80 / RD600 cards are going to impact on our systems though? I would appreciate a later article on that topic please Sander?

Many thanks.

P.S My first C2D system is still under construction ...

Mike L. Oct 20, 2006, 12:56pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Max Lindholm said:
The only application that I've used that actually used both of my cores was DVDShrink...holy cow was I impressed, 8.5GB shrunk down to 4.7GB in 14 minutes =)


I know what you mean. Infact I've been able to encode movies in less than 14 minutes, and that's on my single core P4 processor, with Hyper-Threading enabled. :)

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Wayne Peterson Oct 20, 2006, 12:59pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I bought a 3D card when the only game that supported it was the one included with card. I bought a CD-ROM before anything but badly compressed porn movies and picture CDs were available for it. I bought a sound card when 99% of software still only used the PC's built in speaker. I bought a hard drive when most programs still came on a couple of 5 1/4" floppies (20MB for $300). And yes I will probably buy a quad core CPU when the price drops a bit.

And there has always been someone saying how pointless or useless those things were because there wasn't software to use it or you would never need it. I remember how many people thought 3D cards were never going to be big. How could a simple little game ever use up all the massive processing power of the 486 and Pentium processors?

No piece of hardware has much software support when it is first released. The developers have to see that there is enough of an installed base to warrant developing for it. And they have already seen that with multi-core CPUs. So there will be a lot of games and other applications that support multi-core by the end of next year.

And let's face it, software support or not, the single core is dead and multi is here to stay. So do we really need to keep beating this dead horse?

And does anyone out there REALLY think they need anything more than a P1 for office work?

Daniel Ellis Oct 20, 2006, 04:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Well, i use Cinema 4D and OMFG!!! dual core blows single outta the water, prances all over its corpse and then eats it, throws it up and takes a dump on it... there just is no comparison of render speed, or even mangaing huge geometries with multiple (30+) lights.

B Oct 20, 2006, 04:47pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
As of now, having a dual core chip doesn't have too many benefits. So I have to agree with Sander on the article.

Hopefully Windows Vista will change that.

Beavis Khan Oct 20, 2006, 04:52pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Brendan Gonsalves said:

Hopefully Windows Vista will change that.


It won't - application developers are the ones that will have to change that. Generic paralellization (eg by the OS) is a hugely complex problem - MS doesn't have the answer, and really, neither does anyone else.

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Harrison Someone Oct 20, 2006, 05:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I'm sure some of this has been said, but I'll just be redundant anyways :P.

Why upgrade a computer from a Pentium 4 to a core 2 duo? Simply for another core of course, right? Heh...not really. Don't generalize processors based off of MHz alone. Any pentium 4 processor (most average people and average businesses use P4s) will be smoked by an Intel Core 2 Duo. The Core 2 Duo processors are over 30% faster than AMDs fastest dual core processors. Why upgrade from a computer with a P4 to a core 2 duo? Simply put, you will see a speed increase even when using one core.

2 cores or 4? assuming that when running a non-optimized code on both of these processors and you get the same speed for both processors, then the point of upgrading is not a feasible option to choose. Hardware is always ahead of software by many years. Remember when the big problem with SLI when it first came out? How everyone said not to get it because it is only supported in games written for SLI? Well now SLI is a great option for upgrading a computer before you ditch it for a better computer. If you give it more time, more applications will be written for at least dual core processors.

If you want a computer that will perform beautifully for games, dual cores are for you. If you want a computer that is going to be used for complex applications like, video, audio, 3d modeling, and what not; get a quad core if you can afford it. If you just want a computer that will perform fast for basic internet, word processing, and other basic applications...save yourself the $$$ and go to dell.com and buy a $500 PC.

A good question for Intel is, "When does Intel plan on using another socket?" It'd be nice to know for people who want to be able to upgrade their computers for newer processors.

Michael Miller Oct 20, 2006, 10:15pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Oct 20, 2006, 10:18pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Daniel Ellis said:
Well, i use Cinema 4D and OMFG!!! dual core blows single outta the water, prances all over its corpse and then eats it, throws it up and takes a dump on it... there just is no comparison of render speed, or even mangaing huge geometries with multiple (30+) lights.


I can't imagine using Cinema 4D, Maya, Modo, Zbrush, After Effects, or Photoshop on a single core processor. Dual-Core was awsome but Quad-Core opens up a whole new world of possibilities. I will purchase the upcoming Intel Core 2 Quad processor when it comes out and I will be saving up for the Opteron Quad-Cores(8 cores) to come out for a killer one PC renderfarm.

SuPeR Xp Oct 20, 2006, 10:25pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Looks like there will be more then 20 Multi-Threading games coming out in 2007 ;)

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Mark Balliet Oct 21, 2006, 12:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
I've been running dual processor machines on and off since my Dual P90. Without exception, my dual machines have always remained more responsive, and usable than my single processor machines. It's true that they arn't as fast as single processor twice as fast, but the benefits of being able to use the machine while a process is using the entirity of one processor is a great benefit. My current system, Dual Opteron 242 makes machines twice as fast look like they're standing still at times.

Darren Reynolds Oct 21, 2006, 09:16am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Dual core, quad core processors hit a snag?
Daniel Ellis said:
Well, i use Cinema 4D and OMFG!!! dual core blows single outta the water, prances all over its corpse and then eats it, throws it up and takes a dump on it... there just is no comparison of render speed, or even mangaing huge geometries with multiple (30+) lights.

LMFAO ... that pretty much sums it up for me too.

Well done Daniel !!!



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