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  Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks? 
 
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Sander Sassen Feb 13, 2007, 07:41am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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I've tested quite a selection of games I enjoy playing, a few of them simply refuse to run as mentioned in the article, others simply run slow, significantly slower than with Windows XP. How's your mileage? I'm sure many of you have more spare time to tinker with the broad selection of popular games that's available.

Best regards,


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Dublin_Gunner Feb 13, 2007, 07:50am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my retail version to arrive, and really wont bother testing with a beta or RC, as it apples to oranges.

However, it appears from around the net that most of the problems experienced by people attempting to run games are due to driver insufficiencies / immaturities.

A lot of problems seem to revolve around OGL, but some DX9 games simply refuse to run.

Hopefully when we get more mature drivers from ATI/NVIDIA we will have our games running nice and pretty, as we're used to!

Lancool PC K62
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4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
John Bailey Feb 13, 2007, 09:32am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Could this be the shape of things to come? I have read that the interface for the drivers is more complex than it was in XP, which no doubt is more complex than it was for 98. Or could the DRM be complicating matters? Should be interesting to see if the WOW turns into an AARGH when DX10 arrives too.

In fairness, if you expect everything to run on a new version of any operating system within at least the first few months, you are in for disappointment. Especially games, where programmers tend to push the envelope a bit and sometimes take advantage of flaws that break compatibility best practice. It takes time for drivers and software to get comfy with each other, and incompatibilities will no doubt surface for some time. Buying a DX10 card when they are in their first generation is also a bit risky as nobody really knows how well they are going to work when there is anything to work with them. And when there is something, you will be using last year's card and the current ones will be that much better for about the same price.

Best bet for anybody thinking of upgrading is wait a while. Let the early adopters have fun with patchy driver support and constant game patches. To anybody with sense, skip vista and stick with XP until you have no other choice. Remember Windows ME?

D Rock Feb 13, 2007, 10:12am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Vista isn't going to be anywhere near ready until at least the first (and possibly a second) service pack.

I can run BF2142 on Vista, but it runs so much slower than on my XP rig. I've seen processes like searchindex.exe and other Vista services spike my cpu utilization for no apparent reason when trying a game or even just idling doing nothing.

I'll stick with XP gaming for now....Vista is fun to play with and in time it will be more stable and perform better. Microsoft wouldn't lie to us now, would they? ;)

Dublin_Gunner Feb 13, 2007, 10:47am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
John Bailey said:
Could this be the shape of things to come? I have read that the interface for the drivers is more complex than it was in XP, which no doubt is more complex than it was for 98. Or could the DRM be complicating matters? Should be interesting to see if the WOW turns into an AARGH when DX10 arrives too.

In fairness, if you expect everything to run on a new version of any operating system within at least the first few months, you are in for disappointment. Especially games, where programmers tend to push the envelope a bit and sometimes take advantage of flaws that break compatibility best practice. It takes time for drivers and software to get comfy with each other, and incompatibilities will no doubt surface for some time. Buying a DX10 card when they are in their first generation is also a bit risky as nobody really knows how well they are going to work when there is anything to work with them. And when there is something, you will be using last year's card and the current ones will be that much better for about the same price.

Best bet for anybody thinking of upgrading is wait a while. Let the early adopters have fun with patchy driver support and constant game patches. To anybody with sense, skip vista and stick with XP until you have no other choice. Remember Windows ME?


Well DRM has nothing to do with it.

The reason is there is a new Windows Driver Model, in other words, a whole new way that drivers interact between the OS and the hardware. They got rid of the HAL (hardware abtraction layer) whihc was previously used to control communication between the OS, Driver & Hardware, now the OS can interact directly with the hardware through the driver.

While this is beneficial, it has never been done before, and obvioulsy has caused complications.

Put it this way, NVIDIA have said their new drivers include around 20 million lines of code, equivalent to the entire Windows NT operating system!!! SO you can appreciate that hardware manufacturers are having a tough time developing drivers.

So unfortunately, GFX drivers are not fully complete as yet, but we should have new revisions shortly.

I'll be dual booting for a while, until drivers are matured significantly.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
dark41 Feb 13, 2007, 11:24am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
So far I've tested these games on Vista Business 32 bit with the system on my signature:

NFS Carbon = choppy

NFS Most Wanted Black Edition = choppy

Madden NFL '07 = locks up when kicking field goals or extra points

V8 Supercars 3 = locks up in the first corner

I have several more to try, including Civilization III & IV, Madden from '03-'06, NBA Live '04 & '05, MVP Baseball '05, Links, Warcraft III-Frozen Throne & II-Beyond the Dark Portal, NFS Underground I & II, and Sims 2 University. (Can you tell we don't play shoot-em-up games?)

To say the results so far are less than impressive is an understatement. I'd be further ahead in testing if it wasn't so disappointing to date.

Vista = A gaming OS?? I think not.

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
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G5, Antec 1200
Jumping moron Feb 13, 2007, 12:17pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
i have installed:
FEAR: Runs perfect, no slowdowns, maxed out. (needs edited shortcut for online)
BF2 / BF 2142: also runs perfect, no slowdowns, maxed out. (needs edited shortcut for online)
Oblivion: first start vista said: this game is not installed properly.
i just went and played the game anyway, no problems at all, no slowdowns, no more inpropper instalation message.
Farcry, does not work. (yet)

one thing i should note is that u need to edit te shortcut to games with punkbuster.
go to property's of the shortcut, compatibility, and check: run as administrator.
this wil overcome punkbuster kicking u randomly.

hope this helps some vista gamers out here.

Post Count +1 :)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Core 2 Duo 6750 @ 3,66ghz,
Asus P5N SLI Nforce 650i.
6Gb DDR800 Kingston hyper X.
2X Geforce 9600 GT's in SLI.
Club 3d Theatron agrippa soundcard.
David Howes Feb 13, 2007, 01:13pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
This could be a real opportunity for ATI and Nvidia to get ahead of each other.

If it simply down to a fact that we are just waiting for the drivers to be optimised and lets say that the tables are turned whereby games excel on Vista instead, then whoever succeeds with this first, there should be quite a few gamers prepared to make the crossover to Vista with the winning card maker.

Les Irish Feb 13, 2007, 02:19pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
This just makes me crazy.

Apparently M$ thinks we are a pack of conditioned lemmings that will PAY at least $250 (upgrade price??!) to jump off the Vista cliff! And enthusiastically!?? And we're supposed to make excuses for the fact that the new OS was released way before it was ready (Drivers need to be ready too, or the OS is pretty well useless, which is what Gamers now have in Vista).

So we're all supposed to pay to test the "pre-release" version of Vista?? The operating system was released and they obviously KNEW it wouldn't play games??? Am I alone in my amazement???

I built a box pretty much just for Vista (runnning RC2 until it times out):
...Hardware for Vista Computer: $1400.00 (for real)
...Several hours spent installing and tweaking to get the eye candy working, etc.
...Installed several games: they wouldn't work, or work at all well
...$250 to upgrade XP Pro to Vista Ultimate: AIN'T HAPPENING!!

I'd suggest waiting or maybe boycotting or buying a MAC.
I just setup a Mac Pro quad Xeon last night with Boot Camp, and it runs XP unbelievably! I'm no Mac Fanboy, but DAMN I like OSX!!! (looks around to make sure none of his mac user buddies are listening...)

Daniel Ellis Feb 13, 2007, 02:20pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Well, I dunno, you talked about CS not working, are you talking 1.6 or source, cuz source runs like a dream, so does/has every game ive played on vista (even the ones from win98 and earlier that i installed to look for compatibility issues). Have you tried running games as Admin (thats the one thing ive noticed bout vista, you need to run programs as admin...)

Daniel Ellis Feb 13, 2007, 02:25pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 13, 2007, 02:28pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Les Irish said:
This just makes me crazy.

Apparently M$ thinks we are a pack of conditioned lemmings that will PAY at least $250 (upgrade price??!) to jump off the Vista cliff! And enthusiastically!?? And we're supposed to make excuses for the fact that the new OS was released way before it was ready (Drivers need to be ready too, or the OS is pretty well useless, which is what Gamers now have in Vista).

So we're all supposed to pay to test the "pre-release" version of Vista?? The operating system was released and they obviously KNEW it wouldn't play games??? Am I alone in my amazement???

I built a box pretty much just for Vista (runnning RC2 until it times out):
...Hardware for Vista Computer: $1400.00 (for real)
...Several hours spent installing and tweaking to get the eye candy working, etc.
...Installed several games: they wouldn't work, or work at all well
...$250 to upgrade XP Pro to Vista Ultimate: AIN'T HAPPENING!!

I'd suggest waiting or maybe boycotting or buying a MAC.
I just setup a Mac Pro quad Xeon last night with Boot Camp, and it runs XP unbelievably! I'm no Mac Fanboy, but DAMN I like OSX!!! (looks around to make sure none of his mac user buddies are listening...)



wow, you spent hours tweaking, tell me, did you just move over from OS X??? cuz i spent about a minute putting all the eyecandy on. I spent 700 on my vista rig, Every game ive installed has worked... Im using the RTMs second grace period, so seriously. It sounds like you havent even touched Vista...

Les Irish Feb 13, 2007, 02:52pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Nah... I've actually just recently got my first couple of Macs, and I've been building my own PC workstations for over ten years. I'm a multimedia content creator, it's what I do for a living, I have lots of PC boxes around here.
I built this PC using an Antec Sonata case, 450 watt PS, 1 gb DDR2 800mhz ram, 1 Asus EN7950GT video card, 1 Asus P5B Deluxe wifi mobo, 1 160gb Hitachi Sata II hard drive, 1 intel Core 2 duo E6600 processor. With shipping and handling, came to $1,421.00 even.
I intend to take it to the quadcore chips that it's compatible with (by design) for video editing with Premiere Pro, After Effects Pro, etc.

Have you looked at the poor performance of OGL in Vista? Video/3D content people will all have to wait a while, apparently.

What did you build for $700.00??

So... if you can load Vista and some games and tweak it out in less than a couple of hours, great.

But you are kind of rude.

I've been running windows since dos. It's been painful. It's always been kind of exciting when a new OS came out, especially as a beta tester for Win95 and the XP beta (which worked beatifully til it timed out, I might add). The only thing that's possibly worse (as in, doesn't match the M$ Hype) was Windows ME.

If you love Vista so much, great. Wonderful.
I pretty much don't think much of M$, and Steve and the Macheads are pretty arrongant, but that's not confined to them alone. Everybodies right, and everybody else is wrong.

I'm just going to quietly run both XP and OSX on this Mac Pro, and we'll see. Ever used OSX? Everyone who wants to have an opinion about this stuff really should spend a little time with it.
It takes all kinds to ruin a world.

Feb 13, 2007, 03:11pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 13, 2007, 04:07pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Where the hell are people getting these ideas? I saw this on the INQ too (they HATE Vista).

BULLS**T! Half-Life 2 runs like a dream on Vista! At 1440x900, full settings, on my dilapidated hardware, with great framerates.
The INQ hates Vista ... I wish they would just admit it and stop making up bogus 'facts.'

B Feb 13, 2007, 03:11pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
*From similar thread*

Brendan Says:
I'm holding off Vista until:
- More DX 10 games are available
- Second generation DX 10 graphics cards are released
- Driver support improves
- I build a new computer

I don't see the need to go from XP too Vista right now. It has no significant benefits over XP that appeal to me at the moment. Not having games that I enjoy such as HL2 and Counter-strike only makes matters worse.

Feb 13, 2007, 03:24pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Half-Life 2 works great, even in windowed mode with Aero running:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6356/hl2ho4.jpg

And with Flip3D:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2371/flip3dtn5.jpg

Daniel Ellis Feb 13, 2007, 04:10pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 13, 2007, 04:15pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Les Irish said:
Nah... I've actually just recently got my first couple of Macs, and I've been building my own PC workstations for over ten years. I'm a multimedia content creator, it's what I do for a living, I have lots of PC boxes around here.
I built this PC using an Antec Sonata case, 450 watt PS, 1 gb DDR2 800mhz ram, 1 Asus EN7950GT video card, 1 Asus P5B Deluxe wifi mobo, 1 160gb Hitachi Sata II hard drive, 1 intel Core 2 duo E6600 processor. With shipping and handling, came to $1,421.00 even.
I intend to take it to the quadcore chips that it's compatible with (by design) for video editing with Premiere Pro, After Effects Pro, etc.

Have you looked at the poor performance of OGL in Vista? Video/3D content people will all have to wait a while, apparently.

What did you build for $700.00??

So... if you can load Vista and some games and tweak it out in less than a couple of hours, great.

But you are kind of rude.

I've been running windows since dos. It's been painful. It's always been kind of exciting when a new OS came out, especially as a beta tester for Win95 and the XP beta (which worked beatifully til it timed out, I might add). The only thing that's possibly worse (as in, doesn't match the M$ Hype) was Windows ME.

If you love Vista so much, great. Wonderful.
I pretty much don't think much of M$, and Steve and the Macheads are pretty arrongant, but that's not confined to them alone. Everybodies right, and everybody else is wrong.

I'm just going to quietly run both XP and OSX on this Mac Pro, and we'll see. Ever used OSX? Everyone who wants to have an opinion about this stuff really should spend a little time with it.
It takes all kinds to ruin a world.



well, all i can say is that you shoulda got 2 gigs of ram... it makes a whole world of difference, and i still cant see how that build cost you so much.

I built a pretty standard pc,

Ati Radeon X850XT
Hitachi 160GB SATA II
2GB DDR2 800
Athlon X2 4600+
Abit KN9 Sli
Thermaltake Matrix with a Thermaltake 400w PS (dual 12v rail)
All of this cooled with a modded Titan Nikita watercooler.

So its not fabulous, but it runs Vista perfectly.

I have used OS X, quite a bit actually... And ive used Vista for bout 3 months now, as my primary OS (with a backup install of XP, just in case).

I really like vista cuz its everything ive wanted XP to have since the start, its the way xp shoulda been in my opinion. But computers weren't powerful enough at the time. Yeah, sotty if i was rude, im just sick of ppl slamming vista cuz they are MS haters.

angryhippy Feb 13, 2007, 04:23pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
I've been reading a lot of gaming with Vista articles, and one thing keeps repeating. As Dominique said, a lot of problems seem to be resolved by right-clicking the game icon in the Games Explorer and chose "Customize," then chose to edit the Play options. This is like bringing up a Properties dialog box on a regular shortcut. Then check the "Run as Administrator" box. Give it a try with Doom3 Sander, and see if it will run after that. One article used this specifically on Doom3 with play problems that immediately disappeared.

Unfortunately, I can't speak from experience as I'm not running Vista yet. I'm going to be one of the late adopters, probably waiting until SP1 or a game I want that will be a DX10 required title. And if that comes up then I'll probably have to wait for an affordable DX10 card.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Harry Feb 13, 2007, 04:56pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Well, my question is at an angle; my question is why the hell should you need new drivers, why should not VISTA be totally 100% backwards compatible with any 32-bit programming? Why should you have to buy all new stuff (including software at someones whim)? Of course the answer here is GREED! Not only do they add more layers of smoke and mirrors that you don't need

Oh, an Microsoft may be at the top of the pyramid but everyone else also wants you to rebuy everything every year of so too.

Have any PCI express video cards showed marked speed superiority to 8x AGP? some tests I read said no at the moment. But a new motherboard with its reduced PCI slots may force you to junk your AGP card and get a PCI express.

It's taken nearly 5 years for XP to exceed Win98 in number of users. I assume that it will take awhile for Vista to catch up too. In the meantime we'll pay Bill to debug his software for him. Yuk. I am waiting as long as possible until I simply can't use XP any more before I help make him the first trillionair on the planet.

Harry :angry:

dark41 Feb 13, 2007, 06:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
I disabled UAC, Windows defender, the side bar, and everything else that I'd never need or was using resources. Do I still need to run as Administrator with UAC disabled?

"Have any PCI express video cards showed marked speed superiority to 8x AGP? some tests I read said no at the moment. But a new motherboard with its reduced PCI slots may force you to junk your AGP card and get a PCI express."

Since PCI-E video cards are cheaper and show no worse performance than AGP, why would anyone want to stick with AGP? You can upgrade a motherboard AND (close to) top of the line PCI-E Vid card for less than the price of a (close to) top of the line AGP card alone.

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
Dublin_Gunner Feb 13, 2007, 08:17pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Harry Porter said:
Well, my question is at an angle; my question is why the hell should you need new drivers, why should not VISTA be totally 100% backwards compatible with any 32-bit programming? Why should you have to buy all new stuff (including software at someones whim)? Of course the answer here is GREED! Not only do they add more layers of smoke and mirrors that you don't need

Oh, an Microsoft may be at the top of the pyramid but everyone else also wants you to rebuy everything every year of so too.

Have any PCI express video cards showed marked speed superiority to 8x AGP? some tests I read said no at the moment. But a new motherboard with its reduced PCI slots may force you to junk your AGP card and get a PCI express.

It's taken nearly 5 years for XP to exceed Win98 in number of users. I assume that it will take awhile for Vista to catch up too. In the meantime we'll pay Bill to debug his software for him. Yuk. I am waiting as long as possible until I simply can't use XP any more before I help make him the first trillionair on the planet.

Harry :angry:


I take it you still use ATA hdd's as well? j/k

But seriously, I bought my first pci-e mobo and gfx card, with sata hdd's etc over 2 years ago. So its hardly like you've been forced to change anything if you're still running AGP hardware, and you cant blame MS for that.

Also, if you had any small idea as to how Vista works, you would then realise why new drivers are released.

BTW, same thing from '98 to 2000, and 98 to XP, drivers are not the same How about instead of ranting on, you just dont upgrade (yet) or change your OS (yet)

I have a copy of 98 SE if you'd like it?.



Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
angryhippy Feb 13, 2007, 09:42pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
DublinGunner said:
I have a copy of 98 SE if you'd like it?.


And I have about 6 extra licenses for it. I could use a copy of 9.0 for my Mac though.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit

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