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  Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks? 
 
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Scumbag Blues Feb 13, 2007, 09:52pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 13, 2007, 09:58pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Harry Porter said:
Well, my question is at an angle; my question is why the hell should you need new drivers, why should not VISTA be totally 100% backwards compatible with any 32-bit programming? Why should you have to buy all new stuff (including software at someones whim)? Of course the answer here is GREED! Not only do they add more layers of smoke and mirrors that you don't need

Oh, an Microsoft may be at the top of the pyramid but everyone else also wants you to rebuy everything every year of so too.

Have any PCI express video cards showed marked speed superiority to 8x AGP? some tests I read said no at the moment. But a new motherboard with its reduced PCI slots may force you to junk your AGP card and get a PCI express.

It's taken nearly 5 years for XP to exceed Win98 in number of users. I assume that it will take awhile for Vista to catch up too. In the meantime we'll pay Bill to debug his software for him. Yuk. I am waiting as long as possible until I simply can't use XP any more before I help make him the first trillionair on the planet.

Harry :angry:



The ability to read is a useful tool, you might want to consider it. DublinGunner already touched upon the drivers.

Also, hardware has little to do with software in this case, so your rant is a bit incoherent in the organization of ideas. Yes, I suppose you are using it as a comparison point, but even then, the point is moot. Yes, AGP does not show immediate signs of disadvantage to PCI-E but the increased bandwidth is needed especially with the new DX10 cards coming out.

Also, don't pretend you know Bill Gates. Do you really think he needs more money? He is valued at $44 billion, I don't think money is the biggest issue here. We aren't paying him to debug his software, he does so because not doing so is suicidal (there is a wonderful French phrase which I just can't remember appropriate here). Software HAS always been about support until obsolescence for major companies and even freelancers.

John Bailey said:
Could this be the shape of things to come? I have read that the interface for the drivers is more complex than it was in XP, which no doubt is more complex than it was for 98. Or could the DRM be complicating matters? Should be interesting to see if the WOW turns into an AARGH when DX10 arrives too.

In fairness, if you expect everything to run on a new version of any operating system within at least the first few months, you are in for disappointment. Especially games, where programmers tend to push the envelope a bit and sometimes take advantage of flaws that break compatibility best practice. It takes time for drivers and software to get comfy with each other, and incompatibilities will no doubt surface for some time. Buying a DX10 card when they are in their first generation is also a bit risky as nobody really knows how well they are going to work when there is anything to work with them. And when there is something, you will be using last year's card and the current ones will be that much better for about the same price.

Best bet for anybody thinking of upgrading is wait a while. Let the early adopters have fun with patchy driver support and constant game patches. To anybody with sense, skip vista and stick with XP until you have no other choice. Remember Windows ME?



Well DRM has nothing to do with it.

The reason is there is a new Windows Driver Model, in other words, a whole new way that drivers interact between the OS and the hardware. They got rid of the HAL (hardware abtraction layer) whihc was previously used to control communication between the OS, Driver & Hardware, now the OS can interact directly with the hardware through the driver.

While this is beneficial, it has never been done before, and obvioulsy has caused complications.

Put it this way, NVIDIA have said their new drivers include around 20 million lines of code, equivalent to the entire Windows NT operating system!!! SO you can appreciate that hardware manufacturers are having a tough time developing drivers.

So unfortunately, GFX drivers are not fully complete as yet, but we should have new revisions shortly.

I'll be dual booting for a while, until drivers are matured significantly.

~

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz | Gigabyte P67A-UD4 | G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1600 4GB | XFX Radeon HD 6950
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CrAsHnBuRnXp Feb 13, 2007, 10:30pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
dark41 said:
Vista = A gaming OS?? I think not.

It will be. Like what was already said, wait until drivers mature a little and it will be a much better OS than XP. (even though it pretty much already is. Just even better than it used to be)

mark parker Feb 14, 2007, 05:31am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Anyone who brought Vista are suckers :):P:P:P:P

Dublin_Gunner Feb 14, 2007, 06:24am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Good thing MS shipped me my copy for free then, isn't it?

And exactly what makes them suckers?

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Dublin_Gunner Feb 14, 2007, 06:26am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Payton said:
DublinGunner said:
I have a copy of 98 SE if you'd like it?.


And I have about 6 extra licenses for it. I could use a copy of 9.0 for my Mac though.



lol


I'll see what I can do. I'm pretty sure one of my friends would have a few spare copies of Mac OS9. If you're interested I'll see what he has.

Lancool PC K62
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4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
angryhippy Feb 14, 2007, 11:56am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Ya Dub, that would be great. I have a Power Mac 8600/300 with the PowerPC 604e CPU. It runs great but was a freebee so it came as is, with 8.5 and no backup CD's.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
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Dublin_Gunner Feb 14, 2007, 12:02pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
No probs, I'll see what I can muster up for ya!


Back on topic:
http://www.bit-tech.net/columns/2007/02/10/not_enjoying_the_view/1.html

This guy sees my point of view exactly!

Lancool PC K62
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angryhippy Feb 14, 2007, 12:12pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 14, 2007, 12:14pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Here's another view. The author trys 25 different games on Vista to see how they run.
http://tinyurl.com/2mje96

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
CrAsHnBuRnXp Feb 14, 2007, 12:44pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
mark parker said:
Anyone who brought Vista are suckers :):P:P:P:P

Care to explain why?

Noite Escura Feb 22, 2007, 06:46am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Still running Win2000. I had no reason to go XP unless I'm forced to. Vista won't be on my sight for at least 4 years probably. :D

Everett Williams Feb 25, 2007, 01:33pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
It seems that MS has managed to acclimate us to reduced expectations and provided us apologists through those who are dependent on the monopoly to provide them with means to play their favorite games. For those who have been around long enough, it used to be that IBM employed the hardware/software whipsaw to maintain it's monopoly sales. The effective WIntel duopoly does the same. In no particular order, hardware is used to sell us software that will use the hardware fully, and then software is used to sell us hardware that will adequately run the software. The lack of modularity in MS OS's means that we must swallow much larger chunks of change with Windwoes than with other OS's that are more modular. They claim that this may not be true in the future, but the deletion of HAL to provide direct hardware access promises less flexibility and modularity rather than more.

One answer to this is to have Apple cease to be a hardware company, at least at the PC level, and become a vendor of OSX to the WIntel world. Though the BSD based OSX will not take us to Linux, that may not be necessary. Portability between OSX and various Linux brands is already fairly trivial, and if it were a larger target, that trend would increase. The important thing is not who wins, but that we have a more competitive marketplace. When hardware companies absolutely must provide drivers for OSX and Win whatever and software companies must provide versions for the same, then way more than half the battle will be won.

dark41 Feb 25, 2007, 10:19pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
I think if OSX had to run all the different hardware configurations that Windows does, it would be no better than Windows. The stability of OSX is largely due to running only MAC hardware, designed specifically for Apple's OS's. Windows has never had that advantage, but then that's why Windows has always been superior for people who want more than a MAC can do.

Back on topic. Another thing I hate about Vista:

I save many files to my computer, whether it be email, documents found on the internet, or pictures. Vista's file saving is crap, unless someone knows a shortcut that I'm missing. EG: when on the internet and wanting to save a file with XP, I right click and hit save as. A window pops up showing My Documents, and the folders contained in My Documents are listed below. I double click each folder to find the sub directory that I want and hit save. Easy and fast. With Vista, right click and hit save as, brings up a silly window that has a path but no folders to double click. Its great if the path is one that I use often, as it's listed in a scroll down window. However if its in a path that I haven't used often, I must pick the closest shortcut and backspace out the folder listed, and start to type the name of the next folder or scroll down to each one individually. This takes 3 times longer than it did on XP and is a total PITA.

This is the main thing I do on my computer, other than play games and research.

Anyone figured out a better way to do this?

EX38-DS5
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Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
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jmerc Feb 25, 2007, 11:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
MS Flight Simulator X Deluxe Edition installed just fine, yet once I attmepted to start the game it never worked.

Weird thing besides the fact that it a Microsoft Games for Windows and it doesn't work is that fact that I find it in add and remove programs. Can't find any reference to the game the program panel. LOL

This is incredible. It's late tonight, but sometime this week when I find time I will look into why it's not working.

PS,
It does work just fine in my Win XP Pro setup. LOL

Jay

Life is too short, make the best of it!
Dublin_Gunner Feb 26, 2007, 06:17am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Dark, click the little drop down box thingy to the right, and select whatever folder you want.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
dark41 Feb 26, 2007, 06:50am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Thanx Dublin, but only my most recently visited folders are listed on that drop down window. The closest thing to XP is the bottom left, where it says folder options. Too bad that defaults to a folder that I never use. Wouldn't be so bad if it defaulted to My Documents as I save everything there in subfolders.

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
Dublin_Gunner Feb 26, 2007, 07:21am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Strange, I'm not at home at the mo, so dont have Vista in front of me. I honestly cant say if I've ever experienced the same problem.

I'll check it out later, and get back to ya.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
dark41 Feb 26, 2007, 11:33am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Thanx

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
angryhippy Feb 26, 2007, 01:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Dark I don't have Vista running but I did use some of the beta builds. I don't know what, but if you right click an item while holing down the shift key, it gives you some additional options. Like I said I don't have an install to see and can't remember what the add-ons were. Here's some more Vista crap. I'm not sure if it's relevant or not. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you say is happening. Oh well good luck anyway
http://snipurl.com/1bdoq

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Dublin_Gunner Feb 26, 2007, 02:48pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 26, 2007, 02:49pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
Update:

Right click-save as

Windows pops up with path in the title bars, and folders on the left.

Click computer, and all your drives & directories are there.

**edit for abysmal spelling lol

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
dark41 Feb 26, 2007, 10:57pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 26, 2007, 11:03pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Windows Vista gaming, shooting blanks?
I appreciate the replies.

Holding down the shift key doesn't really give any better options unless you want to send the file/picture/whatever to floppy or CD-Rom drive. (BTW, those options are identical to what they were in XP.) I followed the links and read as far into it as I could. Looks like MS is more into promoting the 'Back' button feature (more like an internet browser), search feature (which is great if you know the name of the folder you want in advance but I rarely do) and saving to internet feature via a URL. Not much there about saving images/files to folders other than what Dublin mentioned (starting from scratch each time from My Computer).

Maybe my point wasn't clear. In XP, assuming I haven't just rebooted, saving files by right clicking opened the last folder that I saved something to. I could click the 'up' button to go back a directory at a time. This was much faster than starting from My Computer and working my way forward because I have heaps of subfolders. The 'up' button is no longer included with Vista. It's been replaced by the 'back' button, which isn't at all the same thing. Its more like an internet toolbar than a file saving toolbar IMO. The only way I see to go back, is to choose the closest link in the drop down menu and backspace out until I get to the subdirectory that I want, and then pick folder by folder forward again. Much slower than it used to be for my purposes.

Does anyone else think this is a step backward? Or am I the only one? :) Or does this still not make any sense? :/

EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200

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