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  Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade? 
 
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Sander Sassen Mar 09, 2007, 08:50am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Alright, just upgraded half of the machines that we use for testing to Vista, only to find a number of them refusing to work due to lack of driver support by a third party manufacturer. What's you mileage with Vista and drivers for your older hardware thusfar?

Best regards,


Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
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Dublin_Gunner Mar 09, 2007, 09:36am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
All drivers were fine, although my only old-ish device is my soundcard (SB Live!), but I found third party drivers that work flawlessly.
Have a thread about it too.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
David Catlin Mar 09, 2007, 10:30am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Purchased a brand new PNY nVidia 7600GS card with 512MB took awhile but have a usuable driver but no nView driver. Purchased an ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI card stumbling with drivers and no driver for the remote control. Have a Seagate Mirra Personal Server no drivers available maybe late spring, but there were happy to tell me that they have MAC drivers....like they will work!!!!!

The funny thing is my old Epson Stylus Photo 900 needed no driver whatsoever and when XP was released Epson wasn't sure if they were going to have XP drivers.

Ed Burnett Mar 09, 2007, 10:32am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
I've been waiting to see what others think about Vista. Whereas garphically it looks good and I' assuming the security issues have been fixed...it also seems they made changes for the sake of making unnececessary changes. Like, why change the Contol Panel naming of modules. I waste more time poking around trying to find stuff. They also took RUN away.
I just installed a new Dell for a client and it runs slow because of Vista. A close friend who has bits in his blood said he loaded Vista on his laptop and it came to a halt. I ran PCPitstop on the Dell and the video card, an ATI 1300 shows a -4...right MINUS 4 performance. I loaded the latest ATI driver and it kicked up to +6. Should be 100 at least.
I will not be upgrading my personal systems to Vista. I'll stick with XP Pro until I'm forced to change.
Ed Burnett

angryhippy Mar 09, 2007, 11:10am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Isn't "run" now having to be added from the start menu properties if you want it to show?

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Ed Burnett Mar 09, 2007, 11:18am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Thanks, just haven't had the time to chase this and others. Found this on a Google search. Thanks again. http://www.edbott.com/weblog/?p=1360

angryhippy Mar 09, 2007, 11:24am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
That and other irritation is why I have no plans to upgrade. Things such as wanting toset up the all programs menu the way I liked entailed moving start menu items from 3 different locations. That and intentionally blocked programs like Alcohol 120% from which I run ALL my games.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Terry Godchaux Mar 09, 2007, 11:37am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
I have been using computers since my first Apple II in 1978, and Microsoft as an OS when they first came of use. Since then, all updates were either necessary, beneficial, productive, or desirable.

Vista represents the first OS upgrade that has few real benefits, and will more than likely not be compatible with several of my devices and/or software.

Being a geek who on-views new technology like a child at Christmas, I am really disillusioned this time around. I am not sure I would even attempt the upgrade if its cost was under $50.00 .... MS must be nuts to think I would pay what they ask on a gamble that my system would run stable and as fast as it currently is.

Maybe it is (product cost) what the market can bear, but I won't follow the lemmings of the market. My next system may even be a Mac Quad Pro using OSX. They seem to be a better bet.

Mike Beckner Mar 09, 2007, 12:28pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
This new system, guys, was all about marketing and the perception of something new and great. The look and feel of XP has gotten a little long in the tooth, and the marketing gurus @ Microsoft decided it was time to increase the revenue streams.

John Ingram Mar 09, 2007, 12:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Every OS upgrade has more experienced PC owners to deal with. A newbie who started with Win ME will be pretty expert, heck, an XP starter 3 years ago is not a newbie any more.

Hence, this is a hardware upgrade OS. The vast majority of owners of Vista 3 years from now will have waited until they needed a new PC, and at that point they will have no choice. If I was a software publisher for the home market, games or otherwise, I would keep XP compatibility in my product for a good 2 years, if not longer.

phil Mar 09, 2007, 12:40pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Terry Godchaux said:
I have been using computers since my first Apple II in 1978, and Microsoft as an OS when they first came of use. Since then, all updates were either necessary, beneficial, productive, or desirable.

Vista represents the first OS upgrade that has few real benefits, and will more than likely not be compatible with several of my devices and/or software.

Being a geek who on-views new technology like a child at Christmas, I am really disillusioned this time around. I am not sure I would even attempt the upgrade if its cost was under $50.00 .... MS must be nuts to think I would pay what they ask on a gamble that my system would run stable and as fast as it currently is.

Maybe it is (product cost) what the market can bear, but I won't follow the lemmings of the market. My next system may even be a Mac Quad Pro using OSX. They seem to be a better bet.



not knocking you, bt you're worried about cost and actual benifits to your "upgrading" and your looking at a MAC??! ... o...k. :/


personally, i've rolled back, pretty much all my computers now back to XP ... as a M-Audio sound card user.. i was left with a several thousand doller pile of XP only sound cards.. and seeing how my onboard sound doesn't have 1/4 inch TRS jacks.. i was left with a bit of a issue.

OpenGL performance was also a BIG issue, i tried dual booting with XP, but it was just too much of a hassle to even use vista at all, it was just a waist of company time, and resources to have it on any design computer in the shop.

lastly, Video card drivers are a very sore spot, i decided to go back with XP, as currently i haven't seen any increase or equal perfomance in any games with my 8800gtx cards, and seeing how the cards are worth more than several copies of vista.. i certainly wasn't going to roll back my hardware. (and that includes FS X)

---
can't access HWA unless I use a proxy... lol

pfft ..f**k that! (almost sounds like work)
Gregg Plummer Mar 09, 2007, 01:44pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
I am a Technet subscriber, so the upgrade costs weren't a factor in my decision. Our company is developing a new audio device for HTPCs, so we thought it would be important to get working on Vista asap. We subcontract to another company for some of the core driver development and this hasn't gone as well as we wanted.

Anyhow, I agree with everything Sander mentioned in his article and all the follow-up comments. We upgraded our development system to Vista. This exact same machine worked great under XP. We used it to demonstrate our audio device while running a variety of software applications for music playback, watching HDTV, and playing DVDs. Under XP we didn't have any problems with this. Under Vista we have a lot of problems getting things to work. There are a couple applications, like J.River's Media Center v11 and SageTV v6 that we have running just fine, but iTunes/Quicktime, Windows Media Player v11, and Vista Media Center have been a mess. I'm sure all of the problems are due to driver issues and codec conflicts, but it has really been a hassle trying to get the compatibility with application and performance that was possible with the same hardware running XP. We used to play 1080P movie trailers to try to demonstrate to people the audio/video capabilities of HTPCs, but they can no longer play smoothly under Vista.

I can't recommend upgrading at this point. I sure hope we see some new drivers come out real soon, but it doesn't look good. Companies like NVIDIA seem to have really dropped the ball. The lasted Vista drivers or even beta drivers don't seem to help performance in any way. NVIDIA's is probably scrambling to satisfy their gaming users, but those of us looking for support for hardware acceleration for playing HD content will probably have to wait a little longer. Oh well. Has anyone heard when they might ship SP1?

http://amplioaudio.blogspot.com/

Bitmap Mar 09, 2007, 02:05pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
John Ingram said:
Every OS upgrade has more experienced PC owners to deal with. A newbie who started with Win ME will be pretty expert, heck, an XP starter 3 years ago is not a newbie any more.

Hey, that's me! :D

Back on topic:

I have to say that I'm impressed at this thread so far that no one has actually blamed the operating system itself, and Microsoft. This is good. The device manufacturers are the ones to blame. :)

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
dalecosp Mar 09, 2007, 02:49pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 09, 2007, 02:57pm EST

 
>> Re: Windows Vista, a true resource hog?
As we found out last summer, not everything in Redmond smells just right ATM. The Empire pulled its act together for a release, but no one in the rest of the galaxy figured it was worth the time.

Not a big surprise to us now. Wonder who could have told us this last August, though?

________________________________________

Dt: November 3, 2003
To: marketing
Cc: S Ballmer
Fr: Bill G

OMG! L00k @3D FX 0n thz fr33 w@r3z!
Push something out the door now!!

---Bill

#!/bin/sh
/usr/local/bin/fortune -s
CrAsHnBuRnXp Mar 09, 2007, 03:01pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Payton said:
Isn't "run" now having to be added from the start menu properties if you want it to show?

Yes. It is not there by default anymore. :(

angryhippy Mar 09, 2007, 03:44pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
An aside on the drivers thing. When I was running the beta's I couldn't get the Realtek "Vista" driver to operate, and was unable to access the equalizer and such. I would get a not compatable with Vista error message. Interestingly, since I was dual booting, while in XP, I put a link to the sound on a slave drive. Then when I was in Vista, I could hit the shortcut and access the app, even though the drivers were installed on the XP partition, which Vista wouldn't let me access. Anyway, my mobo just arrived and I'm retiring to the bedroom to start tearing it down, and waxing it up!

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
Jarret M. Mar 09, 2007, 04:20pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?

I personally would like to blame Microsoft.. why.. Well, when I went to XP (in 2000), I found that most of my legacy hardware worked right out of the box, as in, as soon as I installed XP, I really didn't need to go searching for drivers. Most things worked. Mind you, not the greatest, but they worked.

SO why is this OS any different? Shouldn't Microsoft have included some kind of drivers that they built for most hardware? In the past, you usually didn't have to worry about drivers unless the hardware was newer then the OS. And I'm not saying that the hw manufactures don't need to develop drivers... I'm just saying that Microsoft could have included basic drivers which made hardware work, instead of having users with no sound or etc.

I believe they pushed an early release instead of including driver support as they wanted some cash income and they assumed that they could pass the blame over to the hw manufacturers, which shouldn't be the case.

phil Mar 09, 2007, 04:43pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Jarret M. said:

I personally would like to blame Microsoft.. why.. Well, when I went to XP (in 2000), I found that most of my legacy hardware worked right out of the box, as in, as soon as I installed XP, I really didn't need to go searching for drivers. Most things worked. Mind you, not the greatest, but they worked.

SO why is this OS any different? Shouldn't Microsoft have included some kind of drivers that they built for most hardware? In the past, you usually didn't have to worry about drivers unless the hardware was newer then the OS. And I'm not saying that the hw manufactures don't need to develop drivers... I'm just saying that Microsoft could have included basic drivers which made hardware work, instead of having users with no sound or etc.

I believe they pushed an early release instead of including driver support as they wanted some cash income and they assumed that they could pass the blame over to the hw manufacturers, which shouldn't be the case.


there is actually a massive amount of drivers included with vista, unfortunately (i could only guess) but there must be at least double (or more) the amount of devices availible on the market now, then there was when XP launched. microsoft also removed the HAL from the OS, which means XP drivers that use the HAL no longer function with vista.

---
can't access HWA unless I use a proxy... lol

pfft ..f**k that! (almost sounds like work)
Harry Mar 09, 2007, 08:17pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
Hi all: Perhaps the whole thing is related to your philosophy. If we were given a choice at the store and by manufacturers would you choose XP or Vista? But, the sad fact is, you will be given no choice. It took what 5-6 years before XP equaled Win98? [depending on where you get your info] And, then XP forging ahead was not a matter of consumer choice -- it was the only operating system available when new machines were purchased.

I am not that interested in contributed to make Bill Gates the first Trillionaire on the planet; but, somewhere down the line I may be forced to do so.

Forced obsolescence has always been part of Microsoft's marketing model. And, it permeates the whole industry including software and hardware makers. Everyone wants you to buy and buy everytime you do anything to or with your computer. Yes, backward compatibility should be the norm not the exception; but, to keep the snowball rolling you will be "forced" to upgrade hardware and software continually.

I was a late (as late as possible) convert to XP. I will admit it is better than Win98 in many ways, especially as to stability. However, it is slower than Win98 in many respects even though my CPU speed dramatically increased. So, I think to myself (always dreaming) I'll run a dual boot with Win98 for some real comparisons. No go, Win98 doesn't recognize the onboard chips on the new motherboard. I go to the intel site and download 5 patches supposed to cure this. Didn't solve anything. Finally after a year or so Intel says they are no longer interested in making Win98 recognize the new chips. So, I am forced to run XP, or go back to an older motherboard with a much slower XP. Forced upgrade whether I want it or not.

I note now that almost all new motherboards will not allow you to use your AGP card, no matter how expensive it was, you get to buy a PCI express video card or switch to a PCI video card. All the tests I have seen on PCI express video cards have not showed many any real performance increases; I admit to not looking lately.

Now, my question to the experts is the new 'more direct' interface for devices (the reason for all the driver woes?) going to speed things up or is this just on paper as a part of Microsoft's Smoke and Mirrors routine to "interest" you in a new O/S.

I am far less interested in new graphics on the desktop than I am in better performance. After all, there is a whole sub-industry devoted to desktop themes and shell changers; you can go there for a "new look" or do one yourself. And so far, I've heard promises, but no delivery on better performance from the new O/S.

And, the guy who says all newer computers will have more memory so we should not worry that Vista is a memory hog. Who wants to buy and buy only to tread water and stay even. The idea of more memory is to speed things up in my opinion. And, a memory hog is almost all ways a slower performer. I don't think Microsoft has ever heard of the term "optimization" since their DOS O/S days. I am not in programming any more; but, I sure remember the days when every program was put through "optimization" many times to slim them down and make them work better and faster.

The sad thing is I, along with everyone else, will be given no choice in this matter. We will all be dragged willy-nilly into the Vista age sooner or later. Some of us kicking, screaming, and complaining about problems. Some of us so hypnotized by the fluff that we will think Vista is the second coming, or maybe the third.

I personally will be a holdout as long as possible; until motherboard failure. I am searching for a backup of my current board now to even delay this further.

Have fun, Harry

Adam Kolak Mar 09, 2007, 08:26pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
My Vista expierence with drivers:

Chipset - Intel provided perfect driver for my old 865PE chipset
Onboard Sound - Supported perfectly by Realtek
Graphics card - Subpar Nvidia driver, but that should be no problem soon.
Sound Card - Creative decided not to support my soundcard anymore. Now using onboard.
Onboard LAN - supported natively by Vista

Everything else works fine. Haven't checked for my printer yet though.

No performance difference is noticeable in Vista for me. Slight frame rate drop in CS:S but I still play in same settings and its very playable even at 1680x1050 on my outdated videocard.

I love Windows Vista. I even use IE7 and Windows Mail. People think I'm crazy.

Adam Kolak
Moderator, Hardware Analysis
adam@hardwareanalysis.com
DFI LP P35-T2RS | Xeon Quad @ 3.2Ghz | 4GB DDR2-1000 | 8800GT 512MB | See Profile
bob lazurs Mar 09, 2007, 08:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Vista driver woes, update or upgrade?
well I have to ask this, so the four different kernels and two code wipes were they tossed everything out and started from scratch are the hardware vendors fault? As obviously ms can do no wrong by tossing all the features except dx10 which is not nearly as nice as it was when it was direct next. Do you think the mkgers really thought it was coming out when it had major code re-written six months before RTM came out? Several people were fired at MS for saying it was not ready. Every time I hear the years comments I think MS pr department needs a raise as this was more of a victory for them than anyone who actually needs to use the hardware I expected better from this site but I'm guessing this is to get back in graces with any tech company you can so you can print news. If you think this is harsh, why are we going toward more control by a third party of our data when we should be moving the other way, as data that a biz generates is one of the most valuable property they own and ms wants to control it? No big surprise so would any smart company, yet why would any smart company turn the data over when they don't have to? I have partner access and I can not see any reason to take advantage of the price breaks ms is offering for any sale of vista this year. The os and drivers are not ready, drm laden designed to snoop on legitimate use, will install any programs they don't think are legit including older programs that don't have drm in them but require adaption to use under win2k and later. And the features that are useful often have major drawbacks to using them that have nothing to do with their functionally. Take bit locker you have to ultimate or the enterprise version of vista to use, yet it is pushed as a reason to get biz to upgrade to vista, forcing them to load down machines with far more overhead that the biz version does not have! The drivers are faster than the xp drivers so why would any one use vista just to get a fancy desktop that does not improve your computers functionally? Really it is the hardware vendors to spend thousands of dollars to support an operating system with less users than Linux? MS pushed visa out the door because they had to justify the 20billion they wasted so far.


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