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  Re: Are you Vista Ready? No? 
 
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Sander Sassen Apr 17, 2007, 04:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Last week I've been on the phone with quite a few contacts that work as system administrator or similar jobs at large corporations. I quizzed them about whether they have any incentive to upgrade their PCs to Vista, well, I was in for a cold shower. None of them even seemed remotely excited about upgrading, mostly because Vista lacked any compelling features over XP.

Best regards,


Sander Sassen
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Bitmap Apr 17, 2007, 05:07am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
It tends to take a long time for companies to successfully change operating systems. I know that where I work won't be moving to Vista until the first service pack is released. And that's a bare minimum. Heck, we just moved to XP only about a year ago. :~

Vista is not for everyone. Not yet, anyhow. While it may not have been intentional, Vista almost feels like an enthusiast's OS. Not something the everyday user would want or need, considering hardware demand. A lot of people are happy with an 800 MHz, 128 MB RAM, and Windows 2000 machines. Others, as we all know, must have quad-core, 8 GB RAM, 8800 GTX, etc., etc. It's all a matter of money these days, and frankly, some people just don't have that kind of money.

Halting OEM sales of Windows XP does seem like a desperate move, not only in that they are shoving Vista down consumers' throats, but also in that they're forcing the OEM hardware sellers (Dell, HP, eMachines, etc.) to redefine their low-end PCs. What used to be the mid-range PC is now the low-end, in order to meet Vista system requirements.

I like Vista. I'll not run it permanently on my hardware, though. I'm waiting I can afford to upgrade my hardware. Vista will run, but I'd like it to run as if I don't even notice it's using 500 MB of RAM. I want it to be background, something I don't have to worry about, much like XP currently is for me.

Damn my budget. :~

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Dublin_Gunner Apr 17, 2007, 05:13am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
I use the extremes of computing everyday.

Work = Celeron 1.8Ghz, 512mb Ram, Win 2k (main machine, others have higehr specs)
Home = Core 2 3.4Ghz, 2Gb, etc Vista

I have to say, I wouldnt revert back to XP from Vista now. I'm way to used to Vista at home, and quite like the OS to be honest.

But in work, we're only partially upgraded to XP, I mean, there's no need to have anything more than Win 2K on the majority of machines.

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John Bailey Apr 17, 2007, 05:35am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
I want to qualify my statement by saying that I have not used Vista, so I'm not talking from direct experience. I have read a lot of articles on it, and they seem to be mostly either indifferent or negative. I can't see any reason to move to Vista, and I'm just a home user.

Now on to the point..

What the hell were they thinking??

Any small to medium business is going to have to not only replace their hardware for quite a bit per seat <the gap is just too big in many cases to upgrade a few components>, but run the significant risk of bespoke software not working.

If Microsoft forces the issue, it will lose them a lot of business. They had to extend the lifespan of 98, so they may very well be forced to do this for XP too. People in Europe at least are beginning to look around for alternatives, and a lot of them are making very approving noises about Linux. I doubt this will be the end of Microsoft, but it might be enough to take them down a peg. The next version might be a lot better because of this.

Donald Iain Smith Apr 17, 2007, 06:56am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
The comany I work for - a major European airline - is just about to migrate from NT to XP!

m0k0 Apr 17, 2007, 07:09am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 07:09am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Coming from a System Admin's perspective, yeah I suppose the Vista upgrade will be a headache, but we've done it all before. But will there be any real benefits or ROI for the business, I don't think many people will be able to make the numbers add up.

I'd be happy to be supporting brand new hardware across the enterprise on a leading edge O/S that has been far more thorough testing than anything we've ever seen before, this is what my job is about (though I'm sure it'll be easier after SP1, which is not far away).

Anyway, a friend of mine in an Admin at a company that has about 2,500 desktops. They are rolling out Windows XP Q3 2007. Says a lot.

Gareth.

Plug & Play Apr 17, 2007, 08:35am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 08:36am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Sander,

How many of those System Admins play games!!!!!

IMHO there is only one main reason to upgrade to VISTA at this moment in time...DX 10.....SIMPLE.

You buy a computer according to what you want it for.......if you a gamer I am afraid you have no choice.

Talking about the business world and the gaming world for vista is like comparing black and white.

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David Whitney Apr 17, 2007, 09:01am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
As someone who tries (perhaps in vain) to at least maintain some degree of tehcnical currency, I maintain a small home domain of PC's. After attending a Vista intro class, I sat down and put the pencil to an upgrade for every machine in our house - in a word, forget it.

What that did do was make me think long and hard about how to leverage more out of my existing machines for less money. And guess what? For less than half the cost of a new machine decked out the way I'd want it, I was able to bump two machines to 2GB of memory, and replace a puking old Socket 478 Celeron with a full Pentium 4. I still have the option of trying out Vista in a virtual machine environment on either machine without forsaking perfectly good hardware.

I think this may be one OS upgrade party to which Microsoft's invitations may go surprisingly unanswered...

-dew

Ron Tetrev Apr 17, 2007, 09:07am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Even gamers are advised to avoid it.
Let's face it, Microsoft's in a hole. When the ONLY compelling reason to upgrade Windows to the Vista edition (which is based on XP anyways, according to past analyses) is Direct X 10, one has to question why ANYONE should be bothering to use Vista in the first place. DirectX used to be a FREE upgrade, for crissakes! Why must I pay extra for prettier graphics? Bad enough that my otherwise-decent hardware needs an upgrade.

The people I have talked to, that are using Vista, do so mainly for experimental purposes; most of their software doesn't4 run very well under it. Personally, as a gamer, I didn't upgrade my system from Windows 2000 to Windows XP until a year ago. You build a system to high-end specs for the games you run, not for the stupid OS you use. Whne the OS starts stealing more and more of your resources.........

On the corporate end, in this economy, more businesses are looking even4 closer at Linux for their solution. With modest hardware requirements, software a6lready available that can handle the job and 6tougher security and reliability built-in, Vista already looks like a wash-out.

Microsoft isn't going to end up bankrupt anytime soon, but Vista definitely is a nail in their coffin. Reminds me a bit of Bob and Windows Me.

paul riley Apr 17, 2007, 09:24am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
As a home user with 3 PCs & a laptop even at OEM prices of 75 for Premium 300 is a lot to find, especially when I doubt if I can find device drivers for all of my hardware. i have just had to change the scanner as the Windows 2000 drivers refuse to work in XP Pro, so I would have had no chance with Vista.
Then there the old Samsung laser parallel port printer which was a pain for XP.

Dublin_Gunner Apr 17, 2007, 10:36am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Ron Tetrev said:
Let's face it, Microsoft's in a hole. When the ONLY compelling reason to upgrade Windows to the Vista edition (which is based on XP anyways, according to past analyses) is Direct X 10, one has to question why ANYONE should be bothering to use Vista in the first place. DirectX used to be a FREE upgrade, for crissakes! Why must I pay extra for prettier graphics? Bad enough that my otherwise-decent hardware needs an upgrade.

The people I have talked to, that are using Vista, do so mainly for experimental purposes; most of their software doesn't4 run very well under it. Personally, as a gamer, I didn't upgrade my system from Windows 2000 to Windows XP until a year ago. You build a system to high-end specs for the games you run, not for the stupid OS you use. Whne the OS starts stealing more and more of your resources.........

On the corporate end, in this economy, more businesses are looking even4 closer at Linux for their solution. With modest hardware requirements, software a6lready available that can handle the job and 6tougher security and reliability built-in, Vista already looks like a wash-out.

Microsoft isn't going to end up bankrupt anytime soon, but Vista definitely is a nail in their coffin. Reminds me a bit of Bob and Windows Me.


I'm a gamer, I use Vista exclusively. I have no problems whatsoever with it, all my games run just fine, and all my hardware works.

I seem to find the most people arguing against Vista are those who've never used it.

I'm not trying to say its the be all & end all or anything, but it is a good, stable OS. Sure, getting it configured to your liking might take a bit of effort, but I personally love it.

I honestly couldnt imagine going back to XP.

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NotVistaready Apr 17, 2007, 10:40am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
I have two desktop machines on my home network, with two laptops that go between work and home.
While my desktops machines are not terribly high end (3ghz core and 2.5 ghz core - 2 gig mem on both ), my laptops are 512meg mem with 2.2 ghz core, all f which run XP pro sp2 with no problem.
My attempt at using Vista on any of them met with disaster. No drivers for cd-roms, dvd-roms,video cards etc.
MS really p**ses me off when they do stuff like making resellers and computer retailers remove XP from their shelves ( and machines)in order to force an over the top upgrade to accomodate a mediocre OS upgrade.
I am seriously looking at Linux or going to Macs.

Dublin_Gunner Apr 17, 2007, 10:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Why not blame the hardware vendors for lack of driver support for Vista??

Its not MS' job to provide drivers for every hardware config out there.

I fail to see with those machines how Vista could be a 'nightmare', apart from driver support lacking.

Lancool PC K62
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FingerMeElmo87 Apr 17, 2007, 11:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 11:15am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
honestly, i think if they were to get rid of the aero glass interface in vista business (which is more of an OS accessory in that segment) then, it should reduce alot over head and it would probably be less demanding on the system.

also, vista is a pretty nice os. i built my brothers pc with vista and it runs great. i personally think is an excellent os and the install was buttery smooth. when i get the chance i'll be upgrading to vista myself.

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 17, 2007, 11:13am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
It can be made to look as slim as Win2k if you wish, removing ANY graphical overhead from the GUI.

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4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
CrAsHnBuRnXp Apr 17, 2007, 12:35pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
DublinGunner said:
Ron Tetrev said:
Let's face it, Microsoft's in a hole. When the ONLY compelling reason to upgrade Windows to the Vista edition (which is based on XP anyways, according to past analyses) is Direct X 10, one has to question why ANYONE should be bothering to use Vista in the first place. DirectX used to be a FREE upgrade, for crissakes! Why must I pay extra for prettier graphics? Bad enough that my otherwise-decent hardware needs an upgrade.

The people I have talked to, that are using Vista, do so mainly for experimental purposes; most of their software doesn't4 run very well under it. Personally, as a gamer, I didn't upgrade my system from Windows 2000 to Windows XP until a year ago. You build a system to high-end specs for the games you run, not for the stupid OS you use. Whne the OS starts stealing more and more of your resources.........

On the corporate end, in this economy, more businesses are looking even4 closer at Linux for their solution. With modest hardware requirements, software a6lready available that can handle the job and 6tougher security and reliability built-in, Vista already looks like a wash-out.

Microsoft isn't going to end up bankrupt anytime soon, but Vista definitely is a nail in their coffin. Reminds me a bit of Bob and Windows Me.


I'm a gamer, I use Vista exclusively. I have no problems whatsoever with it, all my games run just fine, and all my hardware works.

I seem to find the most people arguing against Vista are those who've never used it.

I'm not trying to say its the be all & end all or anything, but it is a good, stable OS. Sure, getting it configured to your liking might take a bit of effort, but I personally love it.

I honestly couldnt imagine going back to XP.

I couldnt agree with you more Dublin. Especially the fact that the majority of the users that complain about Vista are those who haven't used it or used it for less than a day.

I am running Windows Vista Home Premium and I have no problems whatsoever with any of my hardware OR software. All my games work. All my software works. I have a thread dedicated to what games and applications work just for Vista. I do encourage others to post the programs that they use in that thread that I have not listed.

I am a gamer, yes, but the fact of the matter still remains that Vista is a very stable OS. Ever since I bought Vista over a month ago, I have booted into XP twice. (and that was only for a couple minutes to check something. I am actually about ready to format my XP partition because I do not need it anymore.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Apr 17, 2007, 12:36pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 12:37pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
DublinGunner said:
Why not blame the hardware vendors for lack of driver support for Vista??

Its not MS' job to provide drivers for every hardware config out there.

I fail to see with those machines how Vista could be a 'nightmare', apart from driver support lacking.

This I cant stress enough. I do not know why people are blaming Microsoft for the lack of driver support. It is the SOLE responsibility of your hardware and software suppliers. Not Microsoft.

BoT Apr 17, 2007, 12:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 12:42pm EDT

 
>> Re: Gadgets
i am not supprised that ms is trying to force oem's and vendors to go with vista.
same thing they did with every release of an os, from 1.0 to xp.

i think the big difference between vista and xp release is that users and businesses have
a lot more options now.
linux has developed quiet nicely from the time xp was released and many are taking osx
in consideration or just stay with xp. it's well established and everybody writes programs
and drivers for it.

i think most businesses are not so much dreading the switch to vista but the related
hardware upgrade cost. so they will take it slow. they are not going to switch the whole
company over to vista. they will implement it with the purchase of new pc or replacement
pc's.
considering intel's and amd current price battle, hardware will be a lot cheaper.
a quad core for under 300.- usd and dual core for less then half that?
just a matter of time that vendors and oem will not only push vista but soon will be able
to push it with the proper platform.

You can either be part of the problem or be part of the solution.
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Sander Sassen Apr 17, 2007, 12:44pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Dublin.., Mark,

Just because the two of you don't have issues, doesn't mean that others don't, there's quite a bit more people that have issues than there are people that upgrade and have everything working right from the get go. I have quite a large collection of PCs here, some run fine, out of the box, others can't be made to run because drivers aren't available or simply have other compatibility issues.

The crux of the matter is that Microsoft started off with what seemed like a great OS, I remember seeing the feature list on the early betas and getting excited. During the long years of development many of these features have been dropped, resulting in Vista being more of a incremental upgrade over XP rather than a truely new OS, much like Windows 2000 was compared to Windows 98.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Bitmap Apr 17, 2007, 01:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 01:19pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
Hey, DublinGunner. Thanks for holding down the fort while I was asleep! :D

I'm going to reiterate what he said, in that Microsoft is by no means responsible for hardware support. Heck, if they wanted to, they could have only legacy support built in to Vista, and you'd have to go out and find all of your drivers one by one. Vista has a large set of drivers preinstalled, which I would say is pretty generous.

I know, not everyone is going to have a flawless experience with Vista, but the fact of the matter is: It's still a young operating system. You can't tell me Windows 95/98/2000/XP weren't just as twitchy in the beginning. Give these things time, let the OS mature a bit, send in those error reports, and most of your issues will be worked out.

On the subject of gaming and DriectX 10, No gamer has to update yet. DirectX 10 isn't out yet, so they can ride the XP wave a little longer. Once DX10 is released, a lot of gamers are going to feel forced to jump on the Vista train. They are by no means obligated. They could stick with DirectX 9 games on XP, as there are quite a few good ones out there. Heck, I still play a few DirectX 7 games. :P

The point here is that an upgrade is a choice. If you don't like it, fine, stick with 95/98/2000/XP. There's nothing wrong with that. Microsoft didn't force you to upgrade, so don't complain to them.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Merc Apr 17, 2007, 01:14pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 17, 2007, 01:17pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Are you Vista Ready? No?
I agree it seems more an incremental upgrade than a revolution in OS tech. except for the fact that an incremental upgrade rarely results in a monstrous increase in hardware requirements, widespread lack of driver support for older equipment, and all kinds of incompatibility issues. Add to that the fact that as BYO type of guy I can no longer buy the OEM version and must buy the retail at a cost of $250, compared to $89.99 for XP Home, if I want to frequently upgrade or change my system. Oh yeah, SLI doesn't work w/ DX10 (Vista) and it sure seems like Nvidia has almost given up on the 8800 series ever working in SLI on DX10. You'll have to wait for the 8900 and screw you 8800 owners. (Nvidia's fault)

Nah, Vista sure seems more like an upgrade that no one wants nor has to do to me. When I can get it for the same price as XP OEM and reload it many times on my various rigs I may look at Vista. When driver support is solid and the kinks have been worked out I may look at Vista. When XP proves slower than what Vista can give me performance-wise, I may look at Vista. Given that the liklihood of any of the above happening within the next two years I think it may be awhile before I switch. Think "Windows ME" here folks.

BTW, if Vista sales are slow then why doesn't Microsoft do what every other retailer in the world does to increase sales....LOWER THE F'ING PRICES!!!! Nope, not M$, they announce that they will just eliminate XP thus forcing adoption of Vista if you want a new PC. Does this smack of illegality anyone? Do you think that the OEMs are going to stand for this type of behavior? Lower the price M$ and maybe I'll look at your product but do not threaten your cutomers. I don't want Vista because it is:
1. To expensive.
2. Unreliable.
3. A system hog that slows performance.
4. Crappy support.
5. DOESN'T BENEFIT ME IN ANYWAY WHATSOEVER.

Why the hell would I buy this crapware with all of the above in play. and let reiterate DOESN'T BENEFIT ME IN ANYWAY WHATSOEVER. Give me DX10 in XP and I'd never upgrade to Vista.

Merc
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