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  Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming? 
 
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Sander Sassen Apr 18, 2007, 03:29am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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I guess the column says it all, after reading yesterdays reviews I'm a bit underwhelmed, I might just pick up that 8800GTS afterall, waited in vain for two months, what a waste of time. Think of all the DX10 games I could've played, wait a minute, on 2nd thought, what DX10 games?

Best regards,


Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
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CrAsHnBuRnXp Apr 18, 2007, 04:01am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
That is kind of disappointing. At least I wont have to worry about it. I do feel sorry for everyone else though that gets it. Might as well just save up for the GTS.




Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Apr 18, 2007, 04:41am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
why feel sorry for them, is it due to not being able to afford the top grades**t like a bunch of yall?

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 05:41am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
I was hoping to replace my x1800xt with the 8600GTS, if it had similar or better performance on DX9.
Fact is, its not a ptch on my card, nowhere near it.

I was really hoping, after initial speculation that the card would ship with 64 stream processors, clocked near 600Mhz, 256 or 512mb ram, on a 256Mbit interface.

That would be a card worth $230

They've efed up here, and for the first time in years, AMD/ATI have a chance to gain the mid-range market.

Nivida usually holds that segment well and truly for themselves, since the fabulous 6600gt and 7600gt.


I do however feel their line up is not complete, as there is a HUGE gap in their product rangeto be filled by a card specced on what I've stated above, and I feel that maybe an 8600Ultra type card based on the above specs could/should be on the horizon

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John Ingram Apr 18, 2007, 08:24am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
This, surely, is another example of the home PC industry, from hardware like video cards to any type of home software from games to education to productivity, believing in it's own hype and it own self-centred, incest industry types.

We had this with CD's coming in to replace floppies as a method of holding game data. The CD's came along, the home PC and gaming media went crazy over the possibilities, PC's were advertised that were no more powerful, but had a CD drive, for the addition $250, of course! Within that same year, 90%+ of all PC games were coming on CD. In the early days not having any extra features over the floppy version, and not really any quicker install, although less floppy swapping. At almost exactly the same time, the 'Pentium' came out. The public was very suspicious of this 'naming' process rather than the 286, 386, 486 they were used to (this has continued with confusion over cpu naming and video card naming. With a GS being better, (or is it worse?), than a GT? And with the 5600XT being less powerful than a 5600, this confusion has grown from many years back!).

The public just did not buy into this at all, and stuck with the PC's they had for another 2 years. These two years were a disaster for home pc companies. Small companies that still released on floppy did well during that time, but those that went 'CD only' suffered greatly. Eventualy, of course, everybody had a PC with a CD drive, but it took 5 years when the overconfident home PC industry thought it would be one or two.

This is happening all over again. An over-confident, too inward-looking, home PC industry has convinced itself we'll all have a Vista PC by Xmas and will be demanding a DX10 card based on price rather than features. For every home PC owner Nvidia card companies confuse into getting an underpowered, overpriced DX10 card, there will be another crack in the survival of PC gaming and the associated hardware like video cards, sound cards, etc..

If it's correct that most home PC owners will upgrade to a new Vista PC only when they would need to upgrade anyway, not specifically because of Vista, then I believe we will have many games that require Vista and a DX10 card a long long time before home PC owners have the hardware/OS,

This could be the final nail in the coffin of PC gaming, with publishers giving up on the format due to poor sales as they release games that home PC owners just cannot play without spending hundereds of dollars upgrading their PC!

Beavis Khan Apr 18, 2007, 09:00am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
More than a bit underwhelming, they seem to be something of a waste of space as far as I can tell. Now if they turn out to be capable performers in DX10 games, I'd change my tune, but the chances of that happening seem slim to none...

However, it is nice to see nvidia finally releasing 80nm parts. Perhaps this is a preview of an 80nm refresh for the higher end cards? Any news on this front from your super secret sources, Sander? :)

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Jumping moron Apr 18, 2007, 10:21am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 18, 2007, 10:22am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
the performance might not be so good now,
but when more drivers come out i believe performance wil be much better.

does anyone remember the X1800XT???
that card was lacking performance to,
but after a new driver release, this card was tha bomb.

lets hope a new set of drivers can change this for the 8600 series :D

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 10:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
my x1800xt kicks that 8600gts all over the place according to those benchmarks.

No way any driver is gonna bring the performance up that much

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FingerMeElmo87 Apr 18, 2007, 10:57am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 18, 2007, 11:38am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
i personally dont think the pc gaming segment is going to disapear any time soon. especialy with Windows Live (or something like that) right around the corner. i think that service is going to do more for pc gaming than any DirectX or any other service has ever done for pc gaming. its essentially XBL for pc and any one knows here that xbox has the best online gaming component than any other console/service on the market.

now the problem that i see that most people have when it comse to pc games is the mouse and keyboard. for most people, playing with a keyboard and mouse is a completely foreign endevor but since every game that carries that logo is compatible with that service, it has to gives you the option of using a controler that has been completely optimized for the game. which is awsome because makes it much less foreign and more plug and play for the consumer. and because of which i believe more people are going to get into pc gaming.

also i cant wait because i can get more achievments :)

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 11:54am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
But in general, PC gamers scourne at the thought of using a controller!

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Julian Innerhofer Apr 18, 2007, 12:03pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
I looked at the prices for this cards.

So the 8600 GT has about the same performance as an 7600 GT, but it is about 50% more expensive.

I don't think, that a lot of agmers will invest 50% more just for DX10.

I thought, that the 8600 cards would have at least the same performance as the DX9 cards for the same price had.

FingerMeElmo87 Apr 18, 2007, 12:09pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
i know pc gamers HATE controllers but not every one like a keyboard and mouse. i bought the wireless 360 controller adapter for my pc, and even though 2142 suck'd balls supporting it i think its something that is nessecary for pc gaming to grow because not every one is comfortable with the notion of using keyboards and mice. more people equals more games.

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 12:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
definitely, the more the merrier. And of course people will prefer their own methods of control.

Even with a k/b & mouse, some people use different buttons & keys for things that I couldnt imagine using!

Anyway, I have no problem noobing people in BF2142 because they have a game pad lol

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Sander Sassen Apr 18, 2007, 12:14pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
For what its worth, I use a force feedback steering wheel and paddles for racing games, can't get near that amount of realism with a keyboard or controller I'm afraid.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 12:24pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
Ah yes, but I cant imagine that steering wheel being very good for STALKER or Crysis lol


Apart from a steering wheel, a game pad is quite good for racing games (but nowhere near a steering wheel)

I couldnt imagine playing an FPS with anything other than a k/b & mouse

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NerdXcore Apr 18, 2007, 12:50pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
Glad I got the 8800gts in february now(birthday present), Upgraded whole pc (which I was going to do anyway) but the quality is fantastic. Might stick a second one in when the prices drop. As for gaming controls, try as I might I cant get to grips with the daughters xbox 360 joypad but just love the keyboard and mouse.

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John Ingram Apr 18, 2007, 12:57pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 18, 2007, 01:03pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
Keyboard, mouse, joypad, steering wheel.....

Does anything matter when the conversation on 99% of PC games forums and sites are about the great game coming out in 6 months, very little about the sub 70% games that are coming out every month between now and the next big thing, and a total mantra of 'everything is okay' we have no editorial debate about what is happening and has been happening in PC gaming over the last 3-5 years. There is no debate about the loss of genres and the increasing hardware demands of games. In fact most PC gaming media will praise a game if it has incredible high-end graphics, even though that means it will run on practically no home PC's!

This is quite suicidal, and shows why the downward trend in PC game sales and the disappearing PC game buyers in shops, etc has continued now for nearly 6 years with absolutely no change in the editorial content of gaming magazines or gaming sites!

No point talking about having games controller and mouse compatible to bring in more gamers. That is barely going to make a dent. What we need to bring in more gamers on the PC is to take more risks, bring in more genres and be more willing to be avent-garde! For example, why do we not have a 'Sleepless in Seattle' type RPG? Or one based around you being a Dog who has to find his way home, or a simulation of running a French Resistance group during World War II? And many others? It's the widening of genres that brings the gamers. When the PC market had flight sims and sub sims and train sims and wargames and educational games and adventure games and sci-fi rpgs and turn based games, we had many more gamers. This was the $2 billion market.

As we have gone to fewer and fewer genres and less and less variety so we have seen PC gamers disappear. From the 2007 release schedule it would seem nothing has changed in this regard, so PC gaming will continue to decline. Vista and DX10 costs only speed up this decline as we head towarsd a $750 million PC gaming market.

Controllers and mice and steering wheels are not what will bring new gamers to PC or old gamers back to buying modern games.

My PC can run Half-Life 2 and Far Cry - can you tell me why those graphics aren't good enough any more and we habve to upgrade to get better graphics?! Could we not have at least another 2 years of HL2 and Far Cry quality graphics and have games that run on PC's bought when those two games came out 3 years ago?!

THis year, because of Vista, DX10 and the state of PC gaming, will decide is this market has a future, or whether the PC will just be an MMO and retro gaming machine, leaving the mainstream market 100% to the consoles.

Dublin_Gunner Apr 18, 2007, 01:01pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
Turn the GFX settings down. Thats the advantage of having games coded to run across a multitude of platforms.

What is the deal with you constantly harping on about PC gaming is going to die or something?

Talking about new games requiring more hardware.

You think someone with an Xbox can run Gears of War etc?? Nope, if they wanna play that game, gonna have to get an Xbox360. Exactly the same thing. Only they replace the whole unit, not just a part.


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John Ingram Apr 18, 2007, 01:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
DublinGunner, At least with the 360 you can still play the XBox games. Doubt if that will be the case with Vista and your Win98 game!?

And it one thing to have to spend $400 every 4-5 years on a new console, but in PC gaming we are practically asked to spend that every 2 years! And then, when you look at the cookie cutter, bland game genres you get on PC and the huge variation of games on the consoles, it makes you wonder if the PC is already dead, let alone dying.

MANUEL ASSOUAD Apr 18, 2007, 02:48pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
Hi, im in some kind of dilema, i dont know what to buy, please give some advice a 8600GT or a 7900 gs. i wish i cant wait.. but i cant.. i must decide in a week
sorry for my english
Thanks in advance for your sugestions :)

B Apr 18, 2007, 03:38pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Nvidia’s 8600 series, a bit underwhelming?
This very disappointingly, especially coming Nvidia which has been known for offering the best price/ performance solutions (ie. 6600Gt and 7600Gt) I guess they broke the tradition with this one. I hope ATI releases a mid-range DX10 card sometime soon. As of now, they have yet to release a DX10 card. :/ Common ATI!!! :)

If ATI doesn't offer a superior card, I will be picking up a 8800GTS.


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