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Sander Sassen Apr 19, 2007, 10:02am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Bobby makes an excellent case on behalf of the gamers out there. I'm sure than when you play violent video games, either occasionally, or on a daily basis, you'll have an opinion about whether the government should be putting legislation in place that will regulate who can, and who can't be playing these games.

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Dublin_Gunner Apr 19, 2007, 10:24am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 12:03pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Well, I do feel that video games should be legally regulated as video's and other media are.

AFAIK there is no legally binding organisation for the regulation of video games.

While I certainly agree that in no way are video games related to acts of violence, they are being unfairly attributed as such by those tight collared conservatives that are merely looking for an excuse or reason that these things happen.

Get over it, crazy people exist, and always will. Video games are merely being used as a scapegoat by those I would consider as crazy as the perpetrators.

However, as I said at the at the start of this post; and I reiterate, they should be regulated as all other forms of media are.

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Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:05pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Most retail outlets refuse to sell M and AO games to minors. A lot of them check ID if the customer looks suspiciously young. Even so, parents need to be monitoring their childrens' intake of violent content, not only in video games, but TV, movies, and the like.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Kirk Bowlby Apr 19, 2007, 01:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Where I live the sale and rental of video games is government regulated, that is to say that a minor cannot purchase or rent mature games. This system seems to work very well, if the teen is mature and has a good grasp on reality then the decision is left to the parents to purchase or rent the game. As far as video games being responsible for acts of violence I don't agree. Watching the evening news on a daily basis would be more likely to drive a person to the extreme acts of violence than the games people play. We as a society always seem to dismiss the warning signs displayed by people before violent things happen and tend to look for easy answers after the fact. Then the Media will run the story over and over until you can almost recite it in your sleep, I feel terrible for the families of the victims of the VT shootings having to relive the experience every time they turn on the television for weeks after.

Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:16pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
I should probably state that, for the record, unless otherwise specified, I'm citing instances from the United States.

I did not know that Canada had such a policy in place. Is that in your city, or in the entire country?

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
John Ingram Apr 19, 2007, 01:17pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
At least with PC games, which have been doing the most voilent games for the longest amount of time, and to a lesser extent even consoles now, we are seeing self regulation. On console we do have at least puzzle and musical games, but on PC the mantra is 'kill kill kill' as I have mentioned elsewhere in these forums prior to the Virginia Tech massacre. From Far Cry to Half Life from Doom 3 to Oblivion from the GTA series to Act of War and to so many others it it about killing, killing killing, and sales are dropping because of it. Again as I have said elsewhere, why not 'Sleepless in Seattle' type RPG's? What about guiding a dog back to his home across the United States and dealing with the environment and dangers? What about life simulations of creatures so you understand what it means to be a wolf or polar bear? And we could all think of a dozen more... nd yet, we get FPS are FPS, where you are killing Trolls or Aliens or other humans, but it is all killing.

Widen the genres and we would have less pressure for government interference. And from a commerical point of view, look at the biggest selling games of all time - they are not the Half Life's and the Far Cry's. they are the Sims and Zoo Tycoon and the Civilizations series. Yes, they all run on standard home PC's and that's part of their sucess - but they are also relatively non-violent to boot. It would seem give gamers non violent games that will run fine on their PC's and they buy them in droves. Give them viol;ent game after violent game and then demand continous PC upgrades and you lose them. The PC games market have been doing the former almost exclusively, hence the decline in PC games sales over the last 15 years and the situation where in 2006 the fewest ever number of PC games were released. If fewer titles are ebing released and those that are are built around killing, then I would say the public are voting with their feet altready.

What happen to PC gaming today will happen to console gaming tomorrow. So voilent gaming has been causing a public reaction for many years, so government intervention is hardly required!

phil Apr 19, 2007, 01:23pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
admittedly i already know some people may read my post and think WTF ..
...with that being said:

several studies american. canadian, british and other, have all shown that video games (specifically FPS'ers.. the most violent) increase the motor skills, dexterous ability, logical thinking, reflexes, eye sight, and eye hand co-ordination.

many of the studies include subjects as low as 4 and 5 yrs old, comparing those that have and have not played, and those with varying experience playing.

girls tend to gain the most, especially on consoles with larger HD displays.

so what does that have to do with government controls, i suppose just a whole pile of debates of varying importance.

one thing is for sure, with my first boy on the way, my priority isn't going to be what he can't do, say, see, or play.. it will rather be, giving him guidance to do whatever he wants and still turn out to be a semi respectable parent for his children.

This is the way my father did it, and it seems i turned out alright.. not bad if you consider my only suspension from school was for swearing (Shit) in Junior Kindergarten. :P

---
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Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:26pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
While I agree that a widening of genres would yield very interesting results, the PC tends to be an outlet where people can try things without worry of injury, death, or punishment. There's something about experiencing an ridiculously intense WWII battle, or mowing down a horde of zombies, etc. Does this transfer over to real life? In the most rare of occasions, sure. But 99% of people who play these violent video games know where the games stops and where real life begins. And those same people are looking for a thrill. Stimulation. I would get really bored, really fast with a story of trying to lead a lost puppy home (as per your example)

However, I will say that I immensely enjoy the Myst series of games. No violence, it's all about the story and solving a puzzle. These types of games, though, tend not to do so well. The only reason Myst does so well is that they started their franchise 12 years back, so they have a huge reputation, But today's gamers are an impatient group. They want results now, which is why first-person-shooter games tend to do better than their real-time-strategy counterparts.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:28pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Phil verhey said:
several studies american. canadian, british and other, have all shown that video games (specifically FPS'ers.. the most violent) increase the motor skills, dexterous ability, logical thinking, reflexes, eye sight, and eye hand co-ordination.

Heh, I've seen that. Makes me grin, because I've only ever been in one car accident, which occured simply because I was distracted by my passenger. I've avoided a few potential accidents, as well.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
John Ingram Apr 19, 2007, 01:48pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Bobby Philips, yea, so the puppy (I said dog! :)) game would bore you, but may I suggest the Sims would too? And yet look at the sales of the Sims. In short, the obvious - it takes allsorts, and you know what? We need allsorts! We need a dozen games selling like the Sims, not just the Sims! We need to make sure that all markets are covered! I wouldn't buy them all, you wouldn't buy them all, but you would buy something I wouldn't and I would buy something you wouldn't and that's what more genres are all about. The PC games business is supposed to be trying to copy the movie business, well, first off, I think they should copy the book business, but in any event, the one major things movies do is have dozens, if not 100's of different genres! From musical to crime to terror to love stories to comedy and on and on and on - and yet what do we have in PC gaming (and just starting in console gaming now too!)? fewer and fewer genres and within those genres less and less original stories....

So the answer, in my opinion, both commerical and from a censorship point of view, is to release many more genres to reach many more people.

Oh and Bobby, you have injured your back leg and there are wolves around. You can smell them even though they are silently stalking you. You are tired and haven't eaten all day, but you can hear the rushing river ahead with the liklehood of fish. But the wolves are between you and that fresh clean water and abundant food....... Still bored?! :)

crash Apr 19, 2007, 02:01pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
>:o woa whos idea was tis ??? ARE U NUTZ to even post such a suggestion is like lighting a wild fire in the dimented minds of some of those in power .... omg .... dude .. &$*&$@$(@&*

sry but there is my 2 cents ( :blush: wierd ... where do i find a cents symbol on my keyboard ? )

Crash---out !
Josh Apr 19, 2007, 02:11pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Type Alt + 0612 on your keypad.

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.
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Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 03:04pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
I like the Sims games. Games without violence these days have to be very well done for them to be entertaining. Of course, tastes vary from person to person.

But look how poorly all these Tycoon games are doing. The only ones surviving are Rollercoaster Tycoon, and Railroad Tycoon (Sid Meier's Railroads!).

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
crash Apr 19, 2007, 03:11pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
what the heck ALT + 0612 ???
anyway --

regarding sims -- .n such ...
those are all alterd reality based games -- living out what we cant accomplish in reality --
NEED ! reality based -- FAITH based - BiBicle based gaming -- based on real current issues and there is no shortage of updates there --

anyone and everyone is able to "sim" but having to deal with "sin" -- everyday every minute deal there ! with real results ... non - believers may call it "Family Values" for this Lost one trac society ....
there are a few out there being produced by one or two companies that are thriving as far as i understand -- look for instance at the movie "the passion" -- now we have "FOX-FAITH FILMS"
soly producing Faith based movies ! ---
"wise men -still follow him " ...crash-out ! :cool:

Crash---out !
B Apr 19, 2007, 03:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Whenever something like this goes wrong the government is quick to blame video games.

Playing Tony Hawk doesn't make you a better skateboard yet playing a FPS cause people to shoot people in real life?

If anything, its a stress reliever. After a hard day, pwning noobs often calms my senses and make me feel better/ :)

Brandon DeCoppel Apr 19, 2007, 03:18pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
DublinGunner had it right, crazy people exist and video games are just a scapegoat for it, a note for people. In Canada if you appear to be a minor you will get flagged for ID or an adult to confirm they know what the games reason for a high rating is and if they understand your purchasing it. I was lucky and started growing a beard before they regularly enforced it however friends of mine have been denied games completely until a parent comes and confirms in.

Government regulation? Obviously ESRB is doing the job in monitoring who can purchase it, but I can name movies with more violent and horrendous acts than most if not all video games.

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dark41 Apr 19, 2007, 03:22pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Sure crazies are all over the world. But in countries where the crazies can't so easily get access to guns, the crazies don't shoot 33 people before the cops know what hit them. It takes a lot longer to kill 33 people with a chain saw or ax because you have to catch them first.

What's sad to me is that my 3 kids in the USA (17, 16, and 14 years old) didn't even pay much attention to the V Tech shootings. They're desensitized by the whole thing because it happens so often in the USA. On the other hand, my 2 children in Australia have had 2 full days of mourning for the families of these people, and thought about how lucky they are not to be living in the USA.

My son (14) in the USA needs a store clerk to monitor which games he buys since his favorites are all of these violent games. My son in Australia (15) has no interest in these games at all. While I don't think either are likely to become serial killers, I regret that my 14 yo doesn't feel the enormity of this situation. I believe his games and the lack of gun control in the USA are directly responsible for that.

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John Ingram Apr 19, 2007, 04:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Bobby - Tycoon Gmaes not doing well? Mmmmm....... Funny then that Zoo Tycoon sold twice as many copies last year than Oblivion on PC!!! In fact is was the4th highest selling game last year with Sims titles above it and Oblivion way down at No.8.....

So better watch out and better take care, because hardly anything is being said in the sites and magazines for PC gaming that would allow PC gamers a true understanding of the market and their part in it.....!

phil Apr 19, 2007, 04:23pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 04:24pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Bobby Phillipps said:
I like the Sims games. Games without violence these days have to be very well done for them to be entertaining. Of course, tastes vary from person to person.


.. yeah, for one person it's raising a family.. for others it's seeing how many people you can get your sim to f**k ..

LOL..

for those who haven't played the sims1/2 making whoopie with 3,4,5,6,7,8 people is just one of many goals and ambitions your sims set for themselves, often they include the words "in public" too.

call me strange, but i'd rather my kids (when i get them) , shoot some aliens, or tear into some guys face with a chainsaw then play the sims.. (especailly if i had daughters).

the sims can easily represent "normal" life for a kid or teen, as opposed to fantasy, i don't want my kid thinking sims behavior is anyway acceptable.
. (for those non-believers.. think about kids and branding mcdonalds, and 'pop-eye-ish candy smokes that tabacco companies used to sell)

no way am i raising the neighbourhood skank.. or the guy who owes her child support.

EDIT: come to think of it.. the worse the rating on the game,, the better the chances my kid gets to play it :)

---
can't access HWA unless I use a proxy... lol

pfft ..f**k that! (almost sounds like work)
angryhippy Apr 19, 2007, 06:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 06:13pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
When I was a little boy, I loved to play Cowboys and Indians. If I wasn't doing that, I was watching westerns on TV. So much so that once when the TV broke I was told there were too many dead indians inside the TV and it got plugged up. I also loved to play with toy trucks of any type.

Strange as this may sound to government regulators, I grew up not wanting to be a truck driver. And unfortunately for their statistics, so far, I haven't slain any native americans. Although I have packed on occassion.

That guys videos/amnifesto is just plain whack. This was a mentally unstable individual. Whether he was wronged by any women or just had an incredibly small penis, moving toward overall game censorship is not going to stop this kind of behavior. It has been blamed on murder/scifi movies, heavy metal/satanic music, twinkies, parental abuse, you name it. These kinds of events will never go away. They have always been with us, from Caligulas' to Idi Amins'. The quantity of violence never changes, only the quality of it resulting in a higher death toll. Otherwise...It's just a friggin game! Helllloooooo!

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Bitmap Apr 20, 2007, 12:03am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
John Ingram said:
Bobby - Tycoon Gmaes not doing well? Mmmmm....... Funny then that Zoo Tycoon sold twice as many copies last year than Oblivion on PC!!! In fact is was the4th highest selling game last year with Sims titles above it and Oblivion way down at No.8.....

Oblivion
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/elderscrolls4obli...q=oblivion

Zoo Tycoon
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/zootycoon?q=zoo%20tycoon

94 / 100 vs 68 / 100. Yeah, just ousting the competition. *cough*

Let's look at a few other tycoon games, shall we?

Tycoon City - 68 / 100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/tycooncitynewyork?q=tycoon

Airport Tycoon - 32 / 100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/airporttycoon2?q=tycoon

Coffee Tycoon - 39 / 100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/coffeetycoon?q=tycoon

Game Tycoon - 42 / 100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/gametycoon?q=tycoon

Mall Tycoon - 41 / 100
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/malltycoon?q=tycoon

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.

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