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  Re: A case against video games? 
 
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John Ingram Jun 21, 2007, 12:52pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Can we just understand something very simple:M Manhunt, Law and Order, Manhunt 2, that PS3 shooter in a church, etc, ARE NOT big sellers!!! The biggest PC sellers have been games like Civilization and The Sims and all it's add-ons and the Tycoon series, etc.

So as much as a few gamers like violent games, the vast majority are looking for something different. 10 years ago it got it. Today it doesn't, hence the decline in PC gaming in those 10 years!

So publishers - do drama, thriller, romance, puzzle, educational, business sim, adventure and the other genres that will sell as well as these incredibly violent games but garner a wider audience. And educational and Business Sims, before you say, do not have to be boring for nerds. For example: How about a simulation of running a ranch in 19th Century USA? Having to deal with buying cattle at good prices, buying land for good prices, dealing with rivals, dealing with rustlers, dealing with the cost of hiring 'guns' -y'know all the things we have seen in western movies for 70 years!

If I can have the ranch idea, why the heck can't publishers have 100 ideas?! Instead they go for violence, hype and cloning previous version of their games with just slight graphic upgrades.

If the PC games business doesn't wake up - there won;t be one in 3 years - mark my words!

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angryhippy Jun 21, 2007, 12:59pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
I don't know about you John, but I have a 19 year old who wouldn't watch a cowboy movie if you tied him to a chair. Unless he was a modern day cowboy packing a desert eagle, glock, mp5 or whatever hunting drug dealers, or armed coyotes crossing the border on his ranch land.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
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John Ingram Jun 21, 2007, 01:14pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
But he probably wouldn't play The Sims, or Civilization, or Zoo Tycoon etc, either, so explain the huge sales of those titles then?

The average video gamer today is 28. And Cowboy movies or on TV channels everyday of the week in every country in the world. Someone watches them. And lastly, the X-Com: Enemy Unknown game didn't do too bad, and I don't think just sci-fi nuts bought it after word of mouth got out!

If you're saying don't try anything new, then we will definitely see the end of PC gaming. Because violent sci-fi and WWII FPS's and War based RTS's are just not cutting it for most gamers and potential gamers, hence the decline in PC game sales and fewer PC game releases every year.

angryhippy Jun 21, 2007, 03:27pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
You know what games I really liked was Tomb Raider. The shooting part was OK but I liked the puzzle aspect best. As for Sims, Zoo Tycoon, I couldn't tell you who watches those. I know there are a lot of kids out there, whos parents adhere to the ratings on the games, so some of the zoo tycoon may be spill over from that. It would be interesting to see some paper work from the game makers on just what is their target audience for some of these games. And yes you're right my kid plays none of those games.

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
dark41 Jun 21, 2007, 10:08pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Well there's definitely a niche for violent games, so we can't blame the developers for sticking with what sells. I've never seen the Sims, Civilization or Zoo Tycoon being played at a LAN party, and LAN parties get a lot of publicity. :-)

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John Ingram Jun 22, 2007, 01:09pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Dark, all your comments prove is how we hardcore gamers have become such a small minority that we do not understand gaming any more. The Sims plus add-ons and the Tycoon games outsell our Half Lifes 2's and our Neverwinter Nights 2 and our Command and Conquer 3 by around 500-1000%, and we are now so out of touch of 'mainstream gaming' that we are in a different world now. there used to be 10 times more of us and we used to BE PC gaming, but we're on the periphery now. Whereas Manhunt 2 may have sold a million worldwide, Zoo Tycoon has sold 10 times that, and even non violent adventure games, like The Longest Journey, released in 2000 has continued to sell by word of mouth and now has 8 million sales. Sure Half Life 2 will sell 4 million, but it won;t continue to sell so it matches non violent games that sell for much longer.

Let's just remember, Neverwinter Nights 2 was thrown out of the PC games chart after just 3 weeks by a RE-ENTRY(!) of a puzzle game called Bejewelled 2 - that one statistic alone shows the change in PC gaming and the publishers just don't get it - hence declining sales in PC games. And with the increasing interest in retro gaming and independent gaming and these Sims and Tycoon games that do not need high end PC's, we have also seen a decline in home PC sales in both the UK and the USA to the tune of around 30% in just 2 years.

This and more statistics show how the PC gaming market has changed in the last 5 years and the media and industry don't understand it yet, and for that matter neither do most so-called 'hardcore gamers'. We're used to being at the centre of things. We're not any more. Whether the PC gaming industry and PC gamers will wake up before it's too late for the genre only time will tell, but the increasing negative attitudes to this constant violent software is one sign. You'd be hard put to name a AAA PC game released in the last couple of years from a major publisher that was not about violence, from Oblivion to Command and Conquer to Crysis, they are all about violence to solve problems. Whether against aliens or other humans. We need to change that.

angryhippy Jun 23, 2007, 08:57am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?

Get Hippied out!
http://www.angryhippy.net
Me at work: http://tinyurl.com/3nvncb3
My rig! A Blah blah.With a blah blah! SWEET! http://tinyurl.com/4yujmff
Da Beast! http://tinyurl.com/3sapr2b
i5 3570K 4.6GHz http://snipurl.com/26r3cot
Win7-8 Pro 64bit
John Ingram Jun 23, 2007, 09:33am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
Re; 2027 link:

And from the part on FPS's - could have been copied from one of my messages above! (Except I have been saying change needs to happen NOW!)

First-Person Shooters
As envisioned by Halo 3 Design Lead Jaime Griesemer

"At some point in the next 20 years, people are going to get tired of fighting aliens, Nazis, zombies, and terrorists. It's a problem that is going to be difficult to solve not because game developers lack imagination or publishers are unwilling to take risks, but because there just aren't that many other settings you can use for a traditional [first-person shooter (FPS)]. You need guns...and lots of enemies to kill. So you can't do a good FPS about the mafia or a realistic crime thriller where each death is important and meaningful.... [This means] your options are limited to a couple historic wars, a present-day setting, and sci-fi.

"As a result, I think you are going to see a lot of FPS games drop the "S" and start making action games from the first-person perspective that don't have guns in them. Call them FPX games. If you get rid of the reliance on guns, you are free to explore a lot more settings and gameplay variety. At some point, somebody is going to do a really successful first-person climbing game or something and the genre is going to blow up."

I said 'Sleepless in Seattle' RPG, rather than a climbing game, but the idea's the same - new genres or the death of PC gaming. It's that simple (hard!)!

dark41 Jun 23, 2007, 01:33pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: A case against video games?
John Ingram said:
Dark, all your comments prove is how we hardcore gamers have become such a small minority that we do not understand gaming any more....


No, my comments prove nothing. What I'm pointing out is that there is still a niche for shoot-em-up games as LAN parties still use them almost exclusively. We've sponsored a few LAN parties in the past because we are interested in supporting this niche of PC user. As long as the niche exists, game manufacturers would be stupid to stop addressing it.

I don't think game manufacturers care if every game they make tops the list of most sold games. As long as they sell enough to make a decent profit, they'll keep making them and all your numbers are irrelevant. Sure, game manufacturers would love for a few of their titles to make a huge impact, but I don't think they expect every title to revolutionize gaming. When the minority is so small that it no longer supplies these manufacturers with a profit, they'll quit making the game. IE: Its a shame that NCAA football and basketball games are no longer made as they were a couple of my favs. I couldn't care less what games other people play, as long as there are enough to justify making the games that I like to play.

I'm not a hardcore gamer. I play a few games fairly regularly. My favorites are none that you've listed. I like NFL football and NBA basketball (EA Sports), Civilization, and racing games (NFS and V8 Supercars). I've never played a Zoo Tycoon game (and doubt I ever will) and can't stand the Sims. Its not a matter of being out of touch. Its a matter of personal preference. To each their own. :)

EX38-DS5
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Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
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