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  Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control? 
 
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Nirmal Kejriwal Apr 19, 2007, 12:14pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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As a non American onlooker I believe controling video games or any other media is like sticking your head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away.

Maybe what is needed here is RIGOUROUS gun control, or better still elimination of guns.

Controling video games is not the answer.


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Dave Apr 19, 2007, 12:19pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
I have to agree, videogames aren't the problem that guns are the problem. But I do think the vendor selling the game is also problem. There needs to be better enforcement on minors.

As for the guns, I think people should have the right to own them but I have to go with Chris Rock on this one: If a bullet were to cost 5000$, then you must have good reason on using it.

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Michel Merlin Apr 19, 2007, 12:34pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Blacksburg is a fabrication to disarm people to better kill them - as in Rwanda 1994 or France 1940
The tragedy of the 33 killed is unfortunately entirely fabricated and covering in advance immensely larger mass killings.

Even with all others disarmed, a single isolated individual with just a 9mm and a 22 rifle would never have killed 33 before being neutralized. In real life this is very rare and always terminated way earlier by someone(s), even unarmed, neutralizing the individual.

In 1994, the organized and coordonated killing of 800,000 Tutsis in 3 weeks would never have been possible if those Tutsis had been armed. Same in France and Germany 1940-45.

Benjamin Franklin told you: trading your freedom (of being armed) is recklessly throwing your security away.

Versailles, Thu 19 Apr 2007 18:35:00 +0200

shuja rahman Apr 19, 2007, 12:35pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Game does'nt spoil a kids mind then a TV do. 90% of mind is spoiled by TV (movies).
So dont blame Games, blames thoes parents who cant control thier kids....

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SuPeR Xp Apr 19, 2007, 12:43pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
I can see a form of GUN Control happening, but blaming Video Games for violence in this world is completely & utterly ridiculous.

The other stupid argument is Movies causing people to go completely nuts.

Government/Media etc do not have an answer to why there is violence in this world, so they use Video Games & Movies as a scapegoat.


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Nirmal Kejriwal Apr 19, 2007, 01:06pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Michel Merlin said:
The tragedy of the 33 killed is unfortunately entirely fabricated and covering in advance immensely larger mass killings.

Even with all others disarmed, a single isolated individual with just a 9mm and a 22 rifle would never have killed 33 before being neutralized. In real life this is very rare and always terminated way earlier by someone(s), even unarmed, neutralizing the individual.

In 1994, the organized and coordonated killing of 800,000 Tutsis in 3 weeks would never have been possible if those Tutsis had been armed. Same in France and Germany 1940-45.

Benjamin Franklin told you: trading your freedom (of being armed) is recklessly throwing your security away.

Versailles, Thu 19 Apr 2007 18:35:00 +0200


The easy availaibility of guns is the lure. If they were available so easily, where would an enraged person get one.

Owning guns does not ensure security, the lax controls just gives the baddies and the nutties easier access to them.

I know this is a sensitive topic in the US, but it needs to be talked about logically rather than with passion.

My 2 bits

Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:10pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 01:10pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Nirmal Kejriwal said:
Maybe what is needed here is RIGOUROUS gun control, or better still elimination of guns.

There's always the black markets.
See, America is cracking down hard on drugs, like you wouldn't believe. Yet we still have the problem. Why? Well, the immediate response is that drugs can be manufactured much more easily than a gun. But you also have to account for the large amount of drugs that come in from other countries, specifically those in Central and South America.

Heightening gun control is only going to increase black market activity.

Understand, I don't have the correct solution to this, I just know what ISN'T the right solution.

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BoT Apr 19, 2007, 01:10pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
most of the entertainment industry actually is government regulated (so much for freedom
of speech) and so are guns.
what good is the regulation if it is not enforced.
also, i would like to quote chris rock "guns don't kill, it's the idiot behind that kills"
there are far to many people out there with mental health issues that do not receive the
proper care.

i also think that retailers should be fined if they do sell a rated game to a minor; however,
i also think the parents should be fined or held responsible if they are buying the game for
the minor. in many cases the parents or the big bro, etc are buying the game for them.

gun laws need to be a lot stricter. i don't think that it is sufficient to walk into a store,
watch a 2 hour video and you are the rightful owner of a deadly weapon

You can either be part of the problem or be part of the solution.
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Matt Hogstrom Apr 19, 2007, 01:15pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Its the same problem regardless of whether its video games or guns. The bottom line is that in both cases the question is whether one should regulate access to the material and if so then how should that be done.

Like the example in the article about children and "Doom 3" its an unfortunate fact that many parents do not exercise their parental obligations and then look to blame someone else; not all but many.

I think we have effective gun control laws. Unless we're going to institute a psychiatric evaluation on a gun purchase which will probably foster a whole new raft of issues around invasion of privacy.

Regardless, with regard to this situation, it appears that Cho planned the attack in advance and was fairly methodical in terms of his execution of the plan. If he couldn't get a gun he probably would have planned an alternative like diesel fuel and fertilizer. This wasn't a spontaneous act but was premeditated and calculated. Let's not lose site of that fact.

I don't think more gun control or video game control will have much if any impact. I think the best course of action is more proactive parents that have the conviction and courage to say no to their kids and are involved in their kids lives. Unfortunately, no legislation will ever fix that problem so I guess we'll just have to put on some more bandaids.

BTW, I'm not suggesting that Cho's parents could have stopped this. Perhaps they could have helped or perhaps not. I think he is a very extreme exception.


Nirmal Kejriwal Apr 19, 2007, 01:36pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Bobby Phillipps said:


Heightening gun control is only going to increase black market activity.

Understand, I don't have the correct solution to this, I just know what ISN'T the right solution.



I live in a gun control country, and while the black market is not zero , just about anyone cannot buy a gun, and automatics .. keep dreaming.

So there is something to be said for control, it may not eliminate the problem but will definitely reduce it, and not to digress from the main Topic.

Games or Media Control is DEFINITELY NOT the answer. Nor are they to blame.

Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:37pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 01:39pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
bot said:
however, i also think the parents should be fined or held responsible if they are buying the game for the minor. in many cases the parents or the big bro, etc are buying the game for them.

I'm going to have to disagree there, unless the child is below a certain age (15?). The problem with this is that a lot of responsible parents think and know that their 16 year old child is mature enough to handle M-rated games. This is valid. I played Doom 3, Half-Life 2, and the like when I was 16. Why? My parents felt I was mature enough. I feel I was mature enough too. It's akin to a parent taking a 15 or 16-year old to an R-rated movie (17+). They're mature enough.

People oft forget that age does not necessarily equate to maturity. I know some 15-year-olds who act much more mature than some of the people I've met at college. :~

Another problem with this is the question of enforcement. How would the retail stores know whether a customer is purchasing a game for him/herself or for a minor child? Would the police do random raids of homes, checking for minors playing M-rated games?

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Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 01:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Nirmal Kejriwal said:
Games or Media Control is DEFINITELY NOT the answer. Nor are they to blame.

At least we see eye to eye there. :)

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Josh Apr 19, 2007, 02:03pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 02:07pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Nirmal Kejriwal said:
Maybe what is needed here is RIGOUROUS gun control, or better still elimination of guns.
Controling video games is not the answer.

I completely agree that video games aren't the problem here.
But gun control isn't, either.

A few years ago, there was a shooting like this (I believe also at VA tech, though I'm not sure). Two students went to their cars, grabbed their guns, and killed the shooter before he could kill more then 2.
So, what does Virginia do? Not allow guns at schools. Completely idiotic. If there were kids on campus that had guns, they would have been able to stop this guy.
If someone really wants a gun, they'll get one, whether it's illegal or not (do you really think he'd give a f**k if it's illegal?? He's going to go kill a bunch of people :~). But those that could really use those guns for defense will be without them.

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Beavis Khan Apr 19, 2007, 02:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 02:17pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Josh said:
If there were kids on campus that had guns, they would have been able to stop this guy.


Wouldn't that be something better left to, say, the police?

Edit -

And to echo the thoughts of some other posters, here in the US at least, gun control is not likely to help in my opinion. There are just too many guns here already. The estimates I've read are anywhere between 70 and 200 million handguns in circulation, with something like a third of those "off the books" - ie unregistered, bought outside normal legal channels. Add to that the several hundred thousand handgun thefts that occur every year, and it's not too hard to see why removing all the legal handguns from the possession of citizens isn't likely to help the overall problem very much.

Edit Again -

Nice article, btw, Bobby.

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Nirmal Kejriwal Apr 19, 2007, 02:28pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Josh said:
If someone really wants a gun, they'll get one, whether it's illegal or not (do you really think he'd give a f**k if it's illegal?? He's going to go kill a bunch of people :~). But those that could really use those guns for defense will be without them.


Ok, so the answer is give everyone a gun .. No control, it should be as easy as buying a Video Game? - That sounds about right ?

Ooops NO - CONTROL THE VIDEO GAMES they are the ones who are giving the nutties all the ideas, Guns they are there for protection so lets put them in K mart, or maybe give one with the school books every year. -

That should arm enough students to pump some nut full of bullets when he draws.

Hmm .. does this sound a lil MAD ? Mututally Assured Destruction - (nukes, anyone recall this? ) We are still breathing, so that seemed to have worked. Maybe this will work too, if it dosent we can always consider eliminating guns then.

Face it, people want their guns (and its not to protect themselves). So guns are NEVER reponsible for anything, I wonder why they have the few controls that that have.

PS. Though I am from the land of Gandhi, I personally am not a great fan of his nor too much of a pacifist.

Nirmal Kejriwal Apr 19, 2007, 02:37pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Apr 19, 2007, 02:39pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Big Beavis said:
and it's not too hard to see why removing all the legal handguns from the possession of citizens isn't likely to help the overall problem very much.


It has to start some where so how about another way?

Leave the legal ones alone - but make the illegal possession / dealing of guns really punishable rather then just a slap on the wrist. Make it not harder to deal in them. and start by getting rid of the automatics, but START.

IT has to start someplace .. first place is in the mind of the people as a whole.

And you are a strong country, no outsider is gonna walk in and run over you, nor is your democratic system about to be upstaged, once the illegal guns are out of the way, the good guys wont really want any.

dark41 Apr 19, 2007, 02:45pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
I'm an American who now resides in Australia. I doubt my opinion will be appreciated by many Americans.

America has very lax gun control laws. America leads the world in school shootings and serial killers who use guns. Face it, there's many ways to kill people, but none are as easy as with a gun. American kids love their shoot-em-up video games. My son is one of them.

Australia has very strict gun control laws. Australia has not had a school shooting nor serial killer who used guns since virtually eliminating guns. Australian kids, for the most part, aren't nearly as much into shoot-em-up video games.

My opinion is that guns and shoot-em-up games are tied together to an extent. People who don't have guns in the house aren't thinking about shooting things (be it in real life or on a game) as much as people who have a gun cabinet in the living room.

I'm also an ex-marine and ex-deer hunter. I would have a hand gun in Australia if I were permitted to. But not because I'd probably ever need it, more because that's how I was brought up. We reloaded shells for .44 Blackhawk , .45, and a .357 about every weekend to target practice when I was 20 years old, and after I got out of the service. It was a relaxing hobby. But the truth is that the NRA hasn't done America any favors lately. By fighting for assault rifles and hand gun rights, the USA is a very scary place to live right now. Nobody ever needed assault rifles on the street. Hand guns aren't really necessary either. I realize the NRA is afraid to give up an inch because of the fear that the government would then shoot for the mile (pun intended). Still, some of the things that Americans see as a right are silly when put in perspective.

I'm all for making it illegal to purchase a shoot-em-up video game below the age of 17. I think there's something wrong with anyone who thinks any 15 year old is mature enough to play these games. If you want to play with guns, join the military and see what its really all about. I can't see any good from having kids playing games that the object is to kill someone or something and see blood squirting across a screen in realistic graphics. In real life that blood actually has pain associated with it.

The real problem with these games isn't so much that it makes everyone a psychopathic killer. The problem is that it desensitizes young people much sooner than they need to be desensitized. Kids are in such a hurry to grow up. When you get old, you'd give anything to have that innocence back. :)

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metal mantiss Apr 19, 2007, 02:57pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
You're all fools if you think more gun control is the answer, too many places and times to cite why this is a bad idea, and yes there are people that purchase firearms (handguns, rifles, ect) for valid reasons, and yes I am one of them. The day the government decides to take my guns is the day I will fight and die for my and everyones else's right to own firearms. Don't get mad because you can't own a firearm, thank your government. Video games and firearms are always first up to blame when tragedy occurs, and this is not right in any fashion, as they are not the problem, some of you are very quick to add that " the US Government needs to ban firearms", that is not the solution, I don't know what is, but I know taking firearms out of the hands of law abiding citizens is not, nor is regulating video games, remember the GTA series and all the heat they took? Just what do you think Rockstar Games is doing right now?? Releasing more violent video games, so that don't work either. Bottom line is this: You can't blame the parents, the video game industry or the manufacturers of firearms, how about just blaming the person that did it in the first place?? Sounds good to me.

dark41 Apr 19, 2007, 03:34pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
I have several guns stored in the USA. I don't miss them and haven't used them in several years even though I visit 3 times/yr.

I'm not going to resort to name calling, but I guess until you've seen both sides of the coin you can't really appreciate the difference. :)

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Bitmap Apr 19, 2007, 03:59pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
More gun control is not the answer. Why? Because it's not the source of the problem. Same goes for media control.

The problem lies in parents who don't monitor their children and the content they take in, not to mention a lot of them who own guns don't keep them out of reach and out of sight of their children.

dark41, I don't own a single gun, save for 2 airsoft guns I have for sport. I've only had them for about 7 or 8 months. They're the only two "guns" in the house. I love my shoot-em-up games. Why? A vent. A way to blow off some steam after a hard day of work and college.

Also a good way to blow off steam after some heavy duty forum moderation. :P

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dark41 Apr 19, 2007, 04:53pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: A case against video games? or More Gun Control?
Bobby,
You're not going to convince me that it hasn't crossed your mind to use your air rifles on me after some of my posts. :)

But seriously, you have yet to address the issue.

All I hear is that gun control won't help, but not why it won't help.

There's an exception to every rule. But how many of your friends have guns in their houses? Everyone on TV in the USA has a gun. Chances are that every other friend/acquaintance of yours has a gun or 2. Last estimates I saw suggested that there's 5 times as many guns as people in the USA. My guess would be that's modest.

You can't even have your air rifles in Australia (but cross bows are legal, go figure), and there's very few murders per capita compared to the USA. Its not that the people are better in Australia (hell, we have Chopper!), its that guns aren't accessible.

Of course the shooter is to blame for a murder, but had a gun not been so easy to get and use many murders wouldn't happen. Its like leaving the keys in your car. It'll be stolen for sure eventually. Take the key out and it may or may not ever be stolen.

For the sake of keeping the thread on topic, I'm not going to pursue the gun arguement anymore. But the fact that you even wrote an article about how this mass murder threatens your beloved video games tells me that you're a bit desensitized already. Maybe you should have started by saying what a tragedy it was and how your thoughts go out to the victims and their families.

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