Please register or login. There are 0 registered and 1178 anonymous users currently online. Current bandwidth usage: 326.30 kbit/s December 16 - 09:22pm EST 
Hardware Analysis
      
Forums Product Prices
  Contents 
 
 

  Latest Topics 
 

More >>
 

    
 
 

  You Are Here: 
 
/ Forums / Projects /
 

  McFly's New Rig 
 
 Author 
 Date Written 
 Tools 
Continue Reading on Page: 1, 2, Next >>
Apr 23, 2007, 10:57am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: May 08, 2007, 02:42am EDT

Replies: 38 - Views: 4811
EDIT: Here's what I'm working on over at the Egg atm:
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail....er=6267568
...

I should be getting a nice new job here soon, and one of the first things on my list (after an air conditioner, it gets damned hot in here in the summer :() is a new compy. Ye Olde Tyme Athlon 64 still works great, but for the latest games it's woefully slow. Since I should be making enough money to cover my monthly expenses, put some away in savings, and still have plently left over, I'm going for a Core 2.

The problem is, the last Intel system I owned was a Pentium 60MHz (boldly overclocked to 90MHz). So I need some help selecting a motherboard, and of course help with the specifics. I also know next to nothing about DDR2.

So what do you guys think?

i) Is it worth it right now to go for the Core 2 Quad? Or just stick with a Duo and OC the shyte out of it?

ii) What's 'the' motherboard brand for Core 2? For 939 I wouldn't have anything other than DFI. Obviously I'll want a good overclocking brand/board.

iii) As for DDR2, does using 4 sticks incur some type of latency or command rate penalty? Such as 939, where using 4 sticks usually forces 2T. I'm going for a minimum of 4GB, which would be no problem (2x2GB), but if I go nuts and decide for 8GB, I don't know if there are any 2x4GB kits, and so I'd have to go 4x2GB.

I know I have a lot more questions, but that's a good start. :) Thanks all.


Want to enjoy fewer advertisements and more features? Click here to become a Hardware Analysis registered user.
Dublin_Gunner Apr 23, 2007, 11:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Personally, I see no reason for Quad core with current games.

However, future games will be multi threaded. And since how games work, coding it for 2 is as easy as coding for 4 or 8. But thats no gonna happen anytime soon.

I would recommend getting maybe a new E6420, and as you so elequently put it, overclocking the 'shyte' out of it!!

I have my E6400 @ 3.4, and thats with crappy cooling (Zalman 9500) and voltage of only 1.4V. Plenty of room left in it.

I also have to recommend an Abit Quad GT. I have no no issues with the board at all, it has a great layout, looks the business (the damn thing has blue LEDs built in for snazziness lol) and is rock solid stable.

DDR2 = Any decent DDR2-800 with at least 4 4 4 timings at that speed and you should be good to go.

If overclocking, go for something D9 based, preferably D9 GMH or D9 GKX

Quad cores will limit your overlclocking, there's no doubt about that. They all seem to hit an FSB wall around 300Mhz FSB currently, dont know if future BIOS updates will sort that out.

Also, filling all 4 banks will limit your clocking too. BUt maybe would only restrict the latencies, not the frequency.

To be honest, there's very little difference with anything above DDR2-800.

So I would nearly recommend splashing out on a CAS3 kit of DDR2-800(but price can be restrictive), and keeping it at stock or close.

2x2Gb kits dont have the best latencies, and you will be restricted to T2, but then again T1 isnt very stable on any Intel chipsets I've experienced. Very little difference also to be honest.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Beavis Khan Apr 23, 2007, 11:32am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
DublinGunner said:
Personally, I see no reason for Quad core with current games.

However, future games will be multi threaded. And since how games work, coding it for 2 is as easy as coding for 4 or 8. But thats no gonna happen anytime soon.


Agreed. Also keep in mind that DX10 will reduce the need for CPU power. And, despite the increased ease of coding for multiple cores these days, it doesn't mean they'll be put to any better use. This is especially true with FPS-type games. Even with multithreaded RTS games, (eg Supreme Commander) which are basically the ideal platform for showing off quad cores, there is definitely a diminishing return on number of cores. The tests of SC I've seen show approx 1.5 cores worth of [100%] CPU usage on a dual core (eg 100% on core 0, ~50% on core 1), but only 2.2 worth on a quad core (100% on core 0, ~40% on cores 1-3). This is a pretty typical pattern in the absence of algorithms that are very easily parallelized (raytracing, video encoding, etc).

Now, assuming we were several months down the road to the next Intel price cut, and you weren't too concerned about overclocking, quad core would probably be a no brainer for an enthusiast-class rig despite the caveats, but... :)

____
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."

- H.L. Mencken
Plug & Play Apr 23, 2007, 11:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig

I would also go core duo and get a board that supports quad core for upgrading. I personnally would go for the 650i or the 680i chipset unless you are getting an ATI card. But I prefer the NFORCE layout. But the Nforce chipsets are exspensive so if you want a cheaper board then the ABIT Dublin Gunner suggested is a very good board (Intel P965 Chipset).

Make sure you get a decent Psu aswell and if you are buying it new make sure it has the newer 8pin connector for the CPU power.

i5 2500K @ 4.8Ghz- Corsiar H50 WaterCooler- Coolermaster Realpower 1000w- Asus P8P67 Deluxe - Asus 6990 4GB - 8GB Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz - X-Fi Sound - 7.1 Surround Speakers - BenQ 24" TFT - G9x Mouse- G19 Keyboard
Dublin_Gunner Apr 23, 2007, 11:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Chipset doesnt make a difference if you're getting an ATI or nvidia card. Unless you wanna go crossfire or SLI.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Apr 23, 2007, 11:43am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
I still haven't decided on if I'm going to get an nV or stick with ATI ... I was thinking that I'd like to use SLI/Crossfire, but on most of the motherboards I've seen, that would prohibit me from using the PCI-Express x8 slot (which is usually between the two x16 slots), which I want for a hardware RAID card.

Plug & Play Apr 23, 2007, 11:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig

You are looking at it from the GPU point of view dublin, the nForce 680i chipset is a better allround performer then the P965 Chipset. In regards to performance and stability, and thus is proven in most of the forums testing accross the board.

i5 2500K @ 4.8Ghz- Corsiar H50 WaterCooler- Coolermaster Realpower 1000w- Asus P8P67 Deluxe - Asus 6990 4GB - 8GB Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz - X-Fi Sound - 7.1 Surround Speakers - BenQ 24" TFT - G9x Mouse- G19 Keyboard
Dublin_Gunner Apr 23, 2007, 12:00pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2946&p=8
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asus-p5ne-sli_8.html
http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/nforce680i/index.x?pg=10 (this review is at odds with other reviews that actually put the Quad GT, a p965 ahead of everything else at Quake 4)
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7763&page=10


All of those reviews seem to be at odds with your statement Plug. They all show little or no graphics (gaming, real & theoretical) performance difference with each chipset. Some reviews use AMD cards, others use nvidia.

Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Apr 23, 2007, 12:18pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
So would be a consensus as for the top few motherboard brands for Core 2?

Mike L. Apr 23, 2007, 12:49pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 12:55pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
With respects to DDR2 - DDR2-800 to be exact - anything more than CAS3 will just be too slow. CAS4 should be fine, typically speaking, but I think that you should look into a CAS3 kit. If I'm not mistaken, populating all four banks will be force you to run at 2T - not that there's any problem with that. As a matter of fact, 2T actually increases your chances of a better/higher overclock. One thing though, I'm not sure about Dublin's comment on anything more than DDR2-800 to be of little to no performance gain, because my understanding is that DDR2 is all about the bandwidth. So it would only lead me to believe that the higher, the better. Of course, it'll be running asynchronously to your processors FSB, again nothing wrong with that. But too much of a gap will warrant that high performance RAM, not-so-fast.

If it's of any use (maybe Dublin can help me out on this), I've just recently learned about a type of chip that some companies use for their RAM. One that is supposed to be really good when it comes to overclocking (Micron D9), and one that is not so great (proMOS). I, like yourself, know next to nothing when it comes to DDR2. As a matter of fact I never even payed attention to the different types of chips that certain manufacturers use. I pretty much thought that they were all the same, lol. Apparently Micron D9 is like the best for overclocking, it also goes by the term "Fat Boy" - whatever the hell that means. proMOS which is shipped by some Taiwanese manufacturer is apparently just mediocre, not very good for overclocking at all - so I've read. It was mentioned that the Corsair XMS series line of DDR2 uses proMOS and not Micron D9. For some reason they were, and then decided to switch. So, you have to factor that in as well. I like Corsair and always have, but the sudden switch to a lower performing chip and not telling anyone about it is kind of deceitful; not to mention disappointing as well. It appears that OCZ is ahead of them right now (once again, so I've read). I hope all goes well man. Too bad I can't be of much help, I've kinda been outta the loop for a while. Take care and good luck.

Edit: I forgot to post some links for you. That is, if you want to have a read on them.

Micron D9:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=What%27s+so+good+about...&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Micron%20D9%20chips

proMOS:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=proMOS%20chips

These are some google searches that I punched in. I still need to do some reading though.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
Plug & Play Apr 23, 2007, 03:05pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 03:10pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Dublin,

I am not just talking performance, I also said stability. And when I referred to the Abit board being "Cheaper" I meant financially not quality. The Abit is a fine board but not in the same bracket as the "High End" mobos. You have a better range of over clocking with the Nforce 680i chipset and I am comparing this with the Commando board I had. Also bear in mind that the DQ6 is on an early bios release the rest of the boards are on rev 3 or 4, before they got the same results.

Also yes indeed that the benchmarks in the list you compiled does not reflect real world applications and are in more favour with the 680 chipset, however if you google my board it currently holds the max barrier for the FSB at 525Mhz..if you believe one site another could not clock it past 400!!!!

But on a whole when I was thinking of getting this board, it was the "Best Motherboard" for the C2D platform.

My point being that the 680i is regarded as the "Performance" chipset not the P965. And with the Asus high end board it suffers from stability at high FSB. Is this down to Asus or the Intel chipset. And from most forums the Commando is a better board then the Striker.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1074/14/page_14_final_thoughts/index.html


i5 2500K @ 4.8Ghz- Corsiar H50 WaterCooler- Coolermaster Realpower 1000w- Asus P8P67 Deluxe - Asus 6990 4GB - 8GB Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz - X-Fi Sound - 7.1 Surround Speakers - BenQ 24" TFT - G9x Mouse- G19 Keyboard
Apr 23, 2007, 03:14pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 03:15pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Well ... after looking at a few reviews and benchmarks, I just can't see myself buying an ATI card for this rig. So an nVidia chipset is in order in case I decide to do SLI, probably the 680i ... How does the 8800GTS square up against the GTX?

Anybody have the Asus Striker? How is it?

Mike L. Apr 23, 2007, 03:40pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Lol, it's like the best board on the market man. And on top of that, when Intel releases their new Penryn processors (both dual and quad core), all you have to do is download a BIOS update from ASUS's website and you'll have automatic support for a 1333MHz FSB and the option to add in some shiny new DDR2-1333 - if you ever decided to purchase some that is.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
Apr 23, 2007, 04:17pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig

phil Apr 23, 2007, 06:56pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
please take a look at the northbridge cooling on the board and determine if it's going to be a problem for you:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/nforce680i/index.x?pg=2

as for GTS 320 (sorry they didn't include a 640mb) vs GTX
http://www.xsreviews.co.uk/reviews/graphics-cards/msi-8800gts-320mb/5/

XFX 8800GTX XXX edition is the fastest stock 8800, it's the only card to feature 1.0ns mem.
.. however i've found standard evga, and asus GTX's tend to overclock higher and easier.

---
can't access HWA unless I use a proxy... lol

pfft ..f**k that! (almost sounds like work)
Apr 23, 2007, 07:39pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 07:45pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Thanks Phil,

I found a 8800GTS 320MB vs 8800GTS 640MB review, the difference was low, maybe 1-10fps, until you get up into the higher res (1920+), and even then, it wasn't too dramatic. I'll be using my current monitor for a while (19" widescreen, 1440x900), so I'm looking at the 320MB GTS atm ... :)

And I did take a close look at that cooler on the motherboard, also there is a chipset fan that connects to that heatsink. I read some reviews on the Egg that said the Zalman 9500 and 9700 both fit nicely on the board, but that the 120mm Zalman does not. I'm planning on going for the 9700, so hopefully it won't be a problem. :)

Dublin_Gunner Apr 23, 2007, 07:50pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 07:52pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Mike L said:
With respects to DDR2 - DDR2-800 to be exact - anything more than CAS3 will just be too slow. CAS4 should be fine, typically speaking, but I think that you should look into a CAS3 kit. If I'm not mistaken, populating all four banks will be force you to run at 2T - not that there's any problem with that. As a matter of fact, 2T actually increases your chances of a better/higher overclock. One thing though, I'm not sure about Dublin's comment on anything more than DDR2-800 to be of little to no performance gain, because my understanding is that DDR2 is all about the bandwidth. So it would only lead me to believe that the higher, the better. Of course, it'll be running asynchronously to your processors FSB, again nothing wrong with that. But too much of a gap will warrant that high performance RAM, not-so-fast.

If it's of any use (maybe Dublin can help me out on this), I've just recently learned about a type of chip that some companies use for their RAM. One that is supposed to be really good when it comes to overclocking (Micron D9), and one that is not so great (proMOS). I, like yourself, know next to nothing when it comes to DDR2. As a matter of fact I never even payed attention to the different types of chips that certain manufacturers use. I pretty much thought that they were all the same, lol. Apparently Micron D9 is like the best for overclocking, it also goes by the term "Fat Boy" - whatever the hell that means. proMOS which is shipped by some Taiwanese manufacturer is apparently just mediocre, not very good for overclocking at all - so I've read. It was mentioned that the Corsair XMS series line of DDR2 uses proMOS and not Micron D9. For some reason they were, and then decided to switch. So, you have to factor that in as well. I like Corsair and always have, but the sudden switch to a lower performing chip and not telling anyone about it is kind of deceitful; not to mention disappointing as well. It appears that OCZ is ahead of them right now (once again, so I've read). I hope all goes well man. Too bad I can't be of much help, I've kinda been outta the loop for a while. Take care and good luck.

Edit: I forgot to post some links for you. That is, if you want to have a read on them.

Micron D9:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=What%27s+so+good+about...&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Micron%20D9%20chips

proMOS:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=proMOS%20chips

These are some google searches that I punched in. I still need to do some reading though.


Fatbody = early revision D9 dimm modules manufactured by Micron.

They are noted by being physically square and 'fat' looking. They are no longer produced.

They would typically overclock to DDR2-1000 or so with 2225 or 3336 timings, but at stupid voltages like 2.6v or 2.7v, generally killing the modules after benchmarking.

Current D9 revision such as GMH & DKX currently offer the highest bandwidth available, with GKX being the favourite, but much more rare.

Generally speaking D9GMH = highest bandwidth, GKX = lowest timings+highest bandwidth, but with much higher voltage, getting rare to find.

Anything lower than Cas4 @ ddr2-800 is a waste of time for a high end rig, as it will restrict you overclocking. (generally overclocking on C2D = 1:1 mem:fsb which would involve more than a 400FSB = more than a 800DDR memory speed.

**edit

Damn my tying is getting bad, gonna blame the keyboard

**edit2

'typing' grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



Lancool PC K62
Phenom II x3 @ 3.5Ghz
4GB DDR2-800
ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II
Apr 23, 2007, 07:55pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List

Edited: Apr 23, 2007, 07:58pm EDT

 
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Well I'm lookin' to get a 4GB kit (2x2GB), and the only CAS4 DDR-800 kits of that size I've found are spendy ... but I may just have to shell out.

In fact this is the only one I can find at the Egg:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146690

mothow Apr 23, 2007, 08:00pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
http://ramlist.ath.cx/ddr2/

not sure if D9's come in 2gig modules

ASRock Z97 Extreme 4 / i7 4790K / Corsair H80i / 4x4GB Crucial Ballistix Smart Tracer DDR3 1600 / 1TB Western Digital Caviar Black / 240GB Mushkin Chronos Deluxe SSD / 2x Evga GTX 670 FTW 2GB in SLI / Sound Blaster Recon3D Fatal1ty / Corsair HX1000w
CrAsHnBuRnXp Apr 23, 2007, 08:08pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
Heres my opinion:

Case: Case looks nice, what about a TT Armor or Stacker case?

Motherboard: I personally would go with the ABIT AW9D-MAX. Looks promising and gets great reviews from Newegg.

Video card: Its nice, reputable company. I prefer BFG or XFX, but tahts just me. You can easily overclock that card to BFG or XFX specs. Only real difference is the price between them.

CPU: Looks great. Looks like it overclocks well.

HDD: Nice size looks good.

CPU cooler: Looks good

PSU: Since I did not see a PSU listed, I highly recommend to anyone and everyone the OCZ GameXstream PSU's. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817341001

Get either the 600watt or 700watt model. Both are great.

RAM: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E16820227091

Did not see this either. That is DDR2 PC1000 ram. The platinum line is awesome. I suggest to stay away form the Gold line. Let me know yoru thoughts.

Mike L. Apr 23, 2007, 08:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: McFly's New Rig
See Dublin, that's what I meant, that's why I needed your help for clarification purposes, lol. It's like, how the hell would you know what chip, or manufacturer to go for when purchasing RAM? It's so bloody confusing. More so, how do you even go about finding out who makes what, with what chips? It's quite difficult, but in any case I really appreciated your help there. Thanks again.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...

Write a Reply >>

Continue Reading on Page: 1, 2, Next >>

 

    
 
 

  Topic Tools 
 
RSS UpdatesRSS Updates
 

  Related Articles 
 
 

  Newsletter 
 
A weekly newsletter featuring an editorial and a roundup of the latest articles, news and other interesting topics.

Please enter your email address below and click Subscribe.