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  Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win? 
 
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CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 30, 2007, 08:31pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
S_U_P_E_R X_P said:
No, AMD is coming out with the first Native quad-core to compete with Intel's Double dual-core cpu's already out.

Since the flaming was over two weeks ago about video cards on a damn CPU thread, I will turn the other cheek for now.

However, no matter how you look at it, a quad core is a quad core is a quad core no matter how you look at it. Whether it be on paper or implemented into a CPU. Ill go along with the whole "native" thing as it will have 4 cores on one die opposed to having 4 cores across 2 dies that communicate via a FSB link. No matter how you look at it, it is still a quad core as it is inside a SINGLE processor.

So dont come back saying that I am wrong, because I am not.

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SuPeR Xp Jul 30, 2007, 09:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 30, 2007, 09:45pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
I know what they look like on the inside. I have seen the pictures before. And I addressed that in my post above your last response. That being said, my point still remains valid.

dark41 Jul 31, 2007, 02:05am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
If anything, that pic makes the AMD version look like a single core compared to the Intel with 2 separate cores. ;)

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Mike L. Jul 31, 2007, 03:55am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
Super, let me ask you a series of questions:

1) Who was the first to introduce the world's first quad-core processor for mainstream servers and desktops alike?

2) How many cores are underneath a Qxxxx processor's heat spreader?

3) What defines a processor's status as being a quad-core CPU?

4) And lastly, who's whipping who's ass?

The answers:

1) Intel.

2) 4.

3) The amount of cores integrated into a single package (read 4 for the answer to question number 2).

4) That's right, Intel is whipping AMD's ass!

Have a nice day. ;)

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
SuPeR Xp Jul 31, 2007, 09:37pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 31, 2007, 11:10pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Aug 01, 2007, 12:31am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
yup and it goes back and forth, cut the crap out, this sites rep went to crap when people started insulting others, not even Sander or Vitality care about the site anymore, notice how there are not many Articles from Sander?

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dark41 Aug 01, 2007, 08:21am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
Seems to me somone needs to get in touch with what this forum is supposedly all about. From the "About us", "who we are" statement:

Hardware Analysis' content is provided by a number of professionals that have worked in the industry for years and have a passion for proper, objective, well documented and above all thorough analysis of products, technology and the industry as a whole. As such Hardware Analysis' content often provides a perspective that is different from others due to a no holds barred approach which is meant to entertain new trains of thought and provoke further discussion.


I don't see a problem with a little fanboyism, as it's doing exactly what the founders intended by provoking further thought and discussion. Then a moderator steps in and tells someone to stop discussing? Hmmm..

Name calling and flame wars are a different animal altogether. But there was none of that on this particular post.

Seems to me that either the site needs to state a new direction, or the moderators and members who don't agree with the current direction and find it pathetic need to find a place where they're a better fit.

Just my thoughts and discussion about my observations. :)

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SuPeR Xp Aug 01, 2007, 10:55pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
Gerritt Aug 02, 2007, 08:52pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
Mark,
I'm sorry, but a native single die multi-core is much more efficient than a multi-die multi-core of equivelent speed.
This goes back to the days of CRAY supercomputers where the cabinets were arrayed in a horseshoe shape to keep the inter-cabinet cabling to a minimum and to allow for equidistant pathing. If you must exit the nm die to traverse a mm distance, you've added a latency, miniscule, yes, but there none the less. There is also the power concerns associated with the I/O through copper or gold and intra-substraight.
Intel - If they are utilizing multiple dies, are limitting the power consumption through a smaller (65 or 45 nm) process, thus permitting less advanced die sets to function at lower Wattage.
AMD - If they are utilizing a single die, abet at 90 or 65nm, will have higher power consumption, but will be competitive based upon the minimization of the I/O power and or delay associated with the multi-die design.

Who's going to get it right? I don't know, but both are interesting, and we need to appreciate the plusses and minusses of both designs/approaches.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 02, 2007, 10:36pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
Gerritt said:
Mark,
I'm sorry, but a native single die multi-core is much more efficient than a multi-die multi-core of equivelent speed.
This goes back to the days of CRAY supercomputers where the cabinets were arrayed in a horseshoe shape to keep the inter-cabinet cabling to a minimum and to allow for equidistant pathing. If you must exit the nm die to traverse a mm distance, you've added a latency, miniscule, yes, but there none the less. There is also the power concerns associated with the I/O through copper or gold and intra-substraight.
Intel - If they are utilizing multiple dies, are limitting the power consumption through a smaller (65 or 45 nm) process, thus permitting less advanced die sets to function at lower Wattage.
AMD - If they are utilizing a single die, abet at 90 or 65nm, will have higher power consumption, but will be competitive based upon the minimization of the I/O power and or delay associated with the multi-die design.

Who's going to get it right? I don't know, but both are interesting, and we need to appreciate the plusses and minusses of both designs/approaches.

Gerritt

Wow.

I wasnt referring to the "bulldozes" remark. It was a statement in general. When was the last time you saw an Intel/AMD/ATI/nVIDIA thread that didnt get locked? When was the last time a topic was civilly discussed by the community? Sure, a little fanboyism is expected. However, everyone around here tries to shove what they think is right down everyones throat
and doesnt take into consideration other people's points of view. Everyone has the right to their own opinion on this forum and they should not be flamed for it. This site has lost a LOT of credibility due to the fact of the constant flamewars and bickering back and forth. It really needs to stop.

As far as what Gerritt stated, I dont give a crap if there is a minisule amount of latency. I dont care how you implement four cores into one CPU, its still a quad core nevertheless. The "native" crap is just a marketing scheme. Theres nothing "native" about having four cores on one die as apposed to 4 cores across two dies talking via a FSB link.

Mike L. Aug 03, 2007, 12:03am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
It's agreeable that a monolithic approach is a little more elegant if you will, but with that comes a lot of problems during the manufacturing process. Whether the path that Intel chose isn't as sophisticated as the one AMD is going with, it still works none the less. As of right now, I really can't see any flaws or downsides to the Qxxxx line of Core 2 Duo processors as they're doing exceptionally well. Don't get me wrong, but time will tell when we witness the debut of Barcelona/Phenom.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
dark41 Aug 03, 2007, 04:30am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
Let's not forget that Intel is also going to on die memory controllers, for better or for worse. Nehalem will mark a new direction for Intel. Due out in mid 2008, with on die graphics and on die memory controllers, it should give Nvidia and ATI something to think about, although it'll probably be a while before the on die graphics can replace a gaming card. I'm sure it has AMD thinking already. :)

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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Aug 03, 2007, 04:41am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
USELESS! it will equal more heat aswell.

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Mike L. Aug 03, 2007, 02:13pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
The on-die memory controller was a must for Intel - they couldn't have avoided it for much longer. But what I'm pleased with is how Intel showed the industry that you don't need an IMC. The only reason AMD went with that idea was because they needed to make a name for themselves; i.e. crafting something of their own for a change. Even though Intel already had plans for IMC back in the late 90s, lol.

___________________________________________
I am what you would call depressingly comfortable...
dark41 Aug 03, 2007, 05:26pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
I agree and was impressed with Intel pretty much all along too. I've always thought Intel was superior for multi-tasking and most things that I do with a computer, but then I'm not a big FPS gamer. I guess we'll see just how much heat the CPUs put out, but I'm more confident in Intel's ability than some are. I still hope AMD comes out with something competitive though too. :)

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Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
SuPeR Xp Aug 03, 2007, 11:21pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html
Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Aug 03, 2007, 11:28pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
P4 Northwood, and Cedarmill were the best P4s Intel released.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
SuPeR Xp Aug 03, 2007, 11:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD's Barcelona, cheaters never win?
I would also like to add AMD's Torrenza to that list.
Read this article:
Intel Geneseo vs. AMD Torrenza - Open architectures from industry's giants
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-Geneseo-vs-AMD-Torrenza-36730.shtml

Intel makes me laugh LOL,

-------------------------------------------------
Custom AMD HAF 932 Red Dragon GAMING MOD!!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/gallery/2442.html

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