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  Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco? 
 
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Sander Sassen Jul 30, 2007, 03:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Flabbergasted, that's how I'd describe my sentiments towards this latest PR fiasco. You have numerous shareholders and members of the media to impress, and you just let this opportunity go by? As if AMD isn't in enough trouble financially already, hence any positive press it can munster would certainly help to raise the stock price and put them into calmer waters again.

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FordGT90Concept Jul 30, 2007, 04:58am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Well said. I'm still not entirely convinced it was even a quad-core in the first place as there's no pictures or anything that suggests it is. For all we know, it could have been a Kentsfield processor with a memory hacked application to claim it is an experimental AMD chip. Despicable I say, despicable.

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Sander Sassen Jul 30, 2007, 05:17am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
For all we know, it could have been a Kentsfield processor with a memory hacked application to claim it is an experimental AMD chip.


Yeah, I also thought about that, that could be another reason why they did not release any benchmarks for it. Actually, the fastest they've shown in terms of clockspeed during Computex (just a few weeks ago) was about half that, so something could indeed be fishy.

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SuPeR Xp Jul 30, 2007, 07:27am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Or they've simply resolved there speed issues. I would wait for the finishing product before passing judgment.

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 07:33am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Fact remains, IMO, if they had a product worth demoing, they would be flooding everyone with samples and benchmarks results, just as Intel did before the launch of C2D - even though nobody thought it could be possible to trounce the competition by such a margin.

Obviously, when the product launches, it will be the performance and value that sells it, nothing else.

And I have to say, at this moment in time, it isnt looking too rosy.

It appears, at this juncture, that the chip just isnt performing, and isnt prioviding the yields. We are apparently only a month or 2 from launch, yet nobody has seen any tangible inforamtion apart from a few slides (tangible???) showing the architecture, and the supposed percentage performance benefit over its 'competition' without a single benchmark in sight to back anything up.

I sincerely hope they're just keeping their cards close to their chest, but I have my doubts, as do most others when speaking on the subject.

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Chris McGee Jul 30, 2007, 07:34am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
S_U_P_E_R X_P said:
Or they've simply resolved there speed issues. I would wait for the finishing product before passing judgment.


The point is this was the ideal opportunity for them to show us the finished product. I think the question is really why they didn't show any performance numbers. This was a perfect opportunity for them and they did nothing with it. I can't really see any downside to releasing the performance figures if they are good (possibly to keep people buying AM2?) which does lead you to believe that maybe the actual numbers aren't that good.

We'll see in a few months (hopefully) either way.

Merc Jul 30, 2007, 09:07am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Sadly I think Sander's article is right on the numbers. The "K-10" is probably a fine chip but is nowhere near the Core 2, much less the Penryn and Nehalem that are coming out. The Core 2 is an amzing chip and Intel isn't sitting on their haunches living off of it, they are improving on it and AMD has yet to respond. A solid demo would've been given if the hardware was good.

I don't know what is going to happen in the next year or two but a DOA K-10 will spell the end of AMD as we know it. I love AMD but won't spend my hard earned money on an underperformer. I'll feed the beast that is Intel.

My guess is that a huge buyout is in the works and we will see a new player, with deep pockets, owning AMD's x86 license and truly competing with Intel from an equal level. AMD just can't sustain the financial impact of a p**s poor release. If I was contemplating an AMD buyout, I'd wait till Phenom flops out the door, falls flat on its face, taking AMDs stock price with it, and then swoop in and buy the whole thing lock, stock and barrel.

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Stuart K Jul 30, 2007, 09:47am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 30, 2007, 09:49am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Is advertising and PR actually what sells chips?

Intel has obviously been marketing directly to the consumer, but is that what is responsible for their being the market leader?

I'm not sure that the people making the decisions about what PCs to buy for business use really base their decision on pink space suits.

I'm also not sure that Aunt Martha who knows she wants to buy a Dell really has an opinion on the CPU her new Dell will have.

I agree that it would be nice if AMD could do the same amount of marketing and PR that Intel does, but it really can't afford to.

As for sending out samples and interacting with the hardware sites and reviewers, is the best use of their resources? How much of their prospective customer base will be reached by this means?

How much does marketing and PR affect stock sales?

I freely admit I don't have the answers on this one, but I do have questions. :)

wwk-tmo Jul 30, 2007, 11:07am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 30, 2007, 11:09am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Ok, think of it this way. How long did AMD mop the floor with Intel? It was much longer than Intel has been able to do so far. But, the prime difference between these two situations would be that Intel didn't put themselves in a financial strain. This could be the one factor that does AMD in.

AMD may be holding a wild card and choose to keep specs under wraps so Intel will be cought off guard by the performance AMD's new chip can do. (we, and AMD can only hope).

I have been a long time user of Intel until this current system that I use now. I do want to keep AMD chips around for the competition so I chose to support AMD by buying the best chip they had to offer.

As long as AMD doesn't go under financially, theres no doubt they will be able to compete with Intel like they always have. This will be partially decided as to how may more users post here with Intel systems instead of AMD.... and.... how long thier investors maintain thier confidence to financially support AMD.

One more thing, the chip I use knocks out all Intel chips from the 6600 and below for as little as $165.00 now, I paid 229.00 with a free mobo I sold for 40.00. Not all users are willing to spend 340.00 or more to get a better chip than the AMD X2 6000+. Customers that are wise to this would realize that there is still great value in what AMD has to offer compared to a comparable Intel chip.

All we can do is hide and watch...

Chris McGee Jul 30, 2007, 11:43am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
wwk-tmo said:

AMD may be holding a wild card and choose to keep specs under wraps so Intel will be cought off guard by the performance AMD's new chip can do. (we, and AMD can only hope).

One more thing, the chip I use knocks out all Intel chips from the 6600 and below for as little as $165.00 now, I paid 229.00 with a free mobo I sold for 40.00. Not all users are willing to spend 340.00 or more to get a better chip than the AMD X2 6000+. Customers that are wise to this would realize that there is still great value in what AMD has to offer compared to a comparable Intel chip.

All we can do is hide and watch...


Why would they want to keep it under wraps, though? It makes no sense from a business point of view. What benefit do they get from catching Intel off guard?

Also, the E6750 is now cheaper than the 6000+ (at least here in the UK), performs better, overclocks further and consumes less power than the 6000+.

FingerMeElmo87 Jul 30, 2007, 11:58am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
i personally think that for almost any product to succeed, marketing is key. intel and amd started about a year apart and through effective product marking intel is now one of the biggest semiconductor on the planet and one of the most successful. sure the got there ass's smack all over the place by the athlon 64 but they kept there laptop business extremely strong, offered very competitive prices, kept refreshing there product, and marketed the hell out of everything. other than magazines, i've never seen an amd advertisement anywhere. there brand recognision blows. intel is one of the only pc part manufactures' that almost every average person knows buy name and knows what there product is call. the same cant be said for amd. bad brand recognition = poor sales. if they marketed there product like the should have during the time when they were smacking intel, they would've made even more money and took even more market share and would've be in same HORRENDIOUS situation they are in now. bad but not terrible

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 12:03pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
wwk-tmo said:
Ok, think of it this way. How long did AMD mop the floor with Intel? It was much longer than Intel has been able to do so far. But, the prime difference between these two situations would be that Intel didn't put themselves in a financial strain. This could be the one factor that does AMD in.

AMD may be holding a wild card and choose to keep specs under wraps so Intel will be cought off guard by the performance AMD's new chip can do. (we, and AMD can only hope).

I have been a long time user of Intel until this current system that I use now. I do want to keep AMD chips around for the competition so I chose to support AMD by buying the best chip they had to offer.

As long as AMD doesn't go under financially, theres no doubt they will be able to compete with Intel like they always have. This will be partially decided as to how may more users post here with Intel systems instead of AMD.... and.... how long thier investors maintain thier confidence to financially support AMD.

One more thing, the chip I use knocks out all Intel chips from the 6600 and below for as little as $165.00 now, I paid 229.00 with a free mobo I sold for 40.00. Not all users are willing to spend 340.00 or more to get a better chip than the AMD X2 6000+. Customers that are wise to this would realize that there is still great value in what AMD has to offer compared to a comparable Intel chip.

All we can do is hide and watch...


Well from 2004 (mainstream K8) until mid 2006, it had a slight performance lead in games. Hmm, hardly 'mopping the floor' for long eh? XP's were very competitive with early P4's, but no more than that.


So that equates to 2 years max, since the early 80's.....hmmm....


Well, i honestly dont think they'd be hiding performance from Intel at this point, its not like Intel are going to engineer something new to take it on in a month.

They arent releasing the performance bench's because they arent up to par just yet, thats the only understandable reason, and its a shame.

If they really had a product that was going to 'mop the floor' this time, you can be damn sure they'd be releasing performance comparisons everywhere to stem people upgraing to Intel CPU's, but that isnt happening and C2D based processors are selling like hot cakes.

While it can be said that AMD remain competitive in the low end, they have nothing that offers the power of the higher end Intel CPU's (or even the low end with a little clocking)

My E6400 for instance is at 3.4Ghz, and quite simply 'mops the floor' with anything AMD has to offer, even overclocked.

This is my first Intel system since a 386 many moons ago, and I can quite honestly say I've never seen a performance increase like it (went from X2 3800+ @ 2.6).

AMD appear to be in a very poor situation with regards to desktop CPU's right now (the bread and butter CPU's) and seem to be concentrating a LOT of effort into giving info on 'innovative' designs, such as the eternally restrictive Fusion processor.

I seriously hope this is all a big ploy so their friends can buy AMD stock at rock bottom, only for it to shoot up in value after the impending launch of Barcelona, but I have my doubts.


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dark41 Jul 30, 2007, 01:54pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 30, 2007, 01:59pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
I agree that it seems fishy at best that no bench marks were released so close to the release date. It would be a shame if AMD were to disappear, as competition is great for both the industry and the consumer.

With Intels latest price drops, AMD no longer has a competitive chip in the high end market. Lucky for AMD, it's not the top end that drives the market. However they're falling behind quickly at this stage and need to respond soon with something competitive. More importantly, with Intels latest pricing they've effectively made the C2D the middle market, which will definitely eat into AMDs long term profits, as they have nothing at this point to compete with C2D.

The 6000+ sells for $230 currently in AU (wholesale). The E6550 is debuting at $235, the E6750 at $265, and the E6850 at $365 (all 4MB cache and 1330MHz). We can also now get a Q6600 for $320. And those prices are retail, as I don't have wholesale prices to compare right now. That's the high end comparison, and the prices look even closer in the USA. Since every one of these CPUs will bury the 6000+, AMD has effectively lost the high end market for now. Also, with this latest price drop by Intel, AMD would have to bring in their new quads at a price that is still competitive, which is not something AMD has been known for doing in the past. Intel has really applied the pressure at this point, whether a stroke of genius or a dirty trick.

The future does indeed look bleak at this point for AMD. :(

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Mike L. Jul 30, 2007, 04:00pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Well, I for one won't be surprised if I see Hector Ruiz on CNN one day, loading a bunch of boxes into his car while using the sleeves of his suit jacket to wipe the tears from his eyes. In other words, AMD isn't far from going belly up. Everyone here (fanboys included) already knows why they chose to withhold performance numbers, and it's simply because they would have ended up embarrassing themselves even further. Unfortunately Phenom (or should I say Barcelona) is a failure. It was done before it even left the gates - and that will soon be a fact. AMD is aware of this, which is why they spent the better half of their time trying to convince everyone that their design was more superior to Intel's. Talk about a slap in the face. That's what you get in my opinion. Instead of actually trying to do something productive, they ran their mouths off. Good. You deserve it AMD.

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dark41 Jul 30, 2007, 05:32pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Well let's hope it doesn't come to that. If AMD does go belly up, we will all suffer in the long run. Without competition, Intel will be able to dictate prices and performance upgrades as Intel sees fit.

I'm no AMD fanboy by a long shot. In fact, I've preferred Intel all along. Still, I sincerely hope AMD continues to provide some competition. Competition drives prices down and technology forward. Competition is our friend. :)

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FingerMeElmo87 Jul 30, 2007, 05:45pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Mike L said:

Well, I for one won't be surprised if I see Hector Ruiz on CNN one day, loading a bunch of boxes into his car while using the sleeves of his suit jacket to wipe the tears from his eyes. In other words, AMD isn't far from going belly up. Everyone here (fanboys included) already knows why they chose to withhold performance numbers, and it's simply because they would have ended up embarrassing themselves even further. Unfortunately Phenom (or should I say Barcelona) is a failure. It was done before it even left the gates - and that will soon be a fact. AMD is aware of this, which is why they spent the better half of their time trying to convince everyone that their design was more superior to Intel's. Talk about a slap in the face. That's what you get in my opinion. Instead of actually trying to do something productive, they ran their mouths off. Good. You deserve it AMD.


damn mike

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SuPeR Xp Jul 30, 2007, 09:42pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
Chris McGee said:
S_U_P_E_R X_P said:
Or they've simply resolved there speed issues. I would wait for the finishing product before passing judgment.


The point is this was the ideal opportunity for them to show us the finished product. I think the question is really why they didn't show any performance numbers. This was a perfect opportunity for them and they did nothing with it. I can't really see any downside to releasing the performance figures if they are good (possibly to keep people buying AM2?) which does lead you to believe that maybe the actual numbers aren't that good.

We'll see in a few months (hopefully) either way.

Hey, its anybody's game at this moment. As much as I hate to admit it, AMD must have a reason for all this even though I don't agree with there current course of action.

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Steve Vickers Jul 30, 2007, 10:05pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
It seems Sander is right on in his article.....The problem is this, how do you talk tech to the general public....If you want to talk tech you will come here, but if you want a no hassle gaming system you will go to your builder or you will take the info your self and take it to task...What Sander may forget is that the average computer geek is not that savey he may just be beyond the gang that just believes what they know what is going on... The reality is that most Geeks have not idea what is going on as far as bench marks, much less care the bench marks results....So when talking to the normal human how do you get the word out .....well you do it via people like Sander and others, and save your self the advertising money, thus sending sales upward..... see the logic....

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bob lazurs Jul 30, 2007, 10:18pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
well AMD has made one bad decsion after another from buying ATi onward. They have not taken advantage of many chances they had, the levaged most of their capital to buy ATi which was also in fincial trouble, and have spent the last two years tellling us intel's method of bridging the cores was inferior to intels when they have yet to build a quad core despite having built dual core chips first. I'm hoping someone like ibm or sun picks up the tech that is good and tosses the usless slackers that were behind chips like the AM2 which was the first amd chip that was junk and they only made it worse from there.

wwk-tmo Jul 30, 2007, 11:38pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 30, 2007, 11:45pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
AMD most likely is in a world of trouble and most likely they are dodging the public humiliation to only get slapped in the face with it 10x worse later on.

As far as the stats for where the top AMD chip falls compared to Intel, I find my info here http://www.tomshardware.com and go to the right middle side of the screen to click on the icon of the piece of hardware you want to compare. As we all know, benchmarks are not real world statistics and I am not willing to go to the bank on any results given but I am like you, unless you are a true geek and have owned all of these chips to do a direct comparison for yourself, you can only compare what is posted by others.

I heard from a Fry's Electronics sales person today that the AMD chip is due out in 2 weeks and they are suposed to be getting them. Anyone else hear this or am I getting a smoke screen sales tactic?...

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 30, 2007, 11:45pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: AMDs Phenom another PR fiasco?
wwk-tmo said:
AMD most likely is in a world of trouble and most likely they are dodging the public humiliation to only get slapped in the face with it 10x worse later on.

As far as the stats for where the top AMD chip falls compared to Intel, I find my info here http://www.tomshardware.com and go to the right middle side of the screen to click on the icon of the piece of hardware you want to compare. As we all know, benchmarks are not real world statistics and I am not willing to go to the bank on any results given but I am like you, unless you are a true geek and have owned all of these chips to do a direct comparison for yourself, you can only compare what is posted by others.

I heard from a Fry's Electronics sales person today that the AMD chip is due out in 2 weeks and they are suposed to be getting them. Anyone else hear this or am I getting a smoke screen sales tactic?...

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Its only the server chip. Not the desktop. So basically its an Opteron chip that will cost near $1k.


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