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  This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out B...urprise the enemy. 
 
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ko ko Jul 30, 2007, 03:16pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 30, 2007, 03:28pm EDT

Replies: 41 - Views: 4533
While yes it would have been very nice to see benchmarks of what a 3ghz phenom with 3 2900's could do, it would not have been in AMD's best interests to do so and would have actually helped Intel.

This author is very naive by not assuming that revealing performance numbers of future products too early can have negative consequences when you are competing with the biggest chipmaker on the planet. If AMD were to release performance figures now, then Intel would know exactly what would be needed to take out Phenom in the future and they would IMMEDIATELY begin making modifications to their Penryn designs to try to beat it.

Obviously 3ghz Phenoms are not available in volumes and will not be for some time, so why telegraph to your enemy exactly the mark they need to beat to beat you when you cannot even ship product and profit immediately from the data release? AMD choose the proper action at the meeting by showing that a 3ghz exists and is coming without revealing the exact performance marks Intel will be up against in early 2008. AMD further knows that a 3ghz Phenom can cannabilize sales of the much slower 2ghz launch Barcelona's, so this author is simply flat wrong in his assumptions and reveals his naivety of how the business world actually works.

For anyone unsure of what performance it probably will have based on its design, at 3ghz it would probably wipe the floor with anything existing today, including Penryn at 3.2ghz. The true key for AMD is being able to make alot of them.


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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 03:30pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies to surprise the enemy.
ko ko said:
While yes it would have been very nice to see benchmarks of what a 3ghz phenom with 3 2900's could do, it would not have been in AMD's best interests to do so and would have actually helped Intel.

This author is very naive to assume that revealing performance numbers of future products too early can have negative consequences when you are competing with the biggest chipmaker on the planet. If AMD were to release performance figures, then Intel would know exactly what would be needed to take out Phenom in the future and they would IMMEDIATELY begin making modifications to their Penryn designs to try to beat it.

Obviously 3ghz Phenoms are not available in volumes and will not be for some time, so why telegraph to your enemy exactly the mark they need to beat to beat you when you cannot even ship product and profit immediately from the data release. AMD choose the proper action at the meeting by showing that a 3ghz exists and is coming without revealing the exact performance marks Intel will be up against in early 2008.



You mean as letting partners down with release schedules, not releasing performance numbers - leaving everyone with little faith in a 'vaporware' product, letting your competitor sell millions of CPU's rather than release some benches and maybe regain some of the market as people would wait to upgrade.

Hmm, makes perfect sense alright.

Penryn is out fairly soon. Do you honestly believe they could completely re-spin the core design in a couple of months to compete? Dont know much about this do you?

If it turned out that Barcelona / Phenom were true performance monsters, not only would we know about it by now, but Intel would not be able to do a damn thing about it.

I'm sure Intel is shaking in its boots.

AMD have lost the plot completely this time around. K10 better wipe the floor with everything else on the market, or their market share is going to be practically non-existant by the release of their next CPU design in 2009.

A lot of partners and previous AMD buyers have lost all faith in them at this stage, and they've only themselves to blame.

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Merc Jul 30, 2007, 04:01pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
I'll go you one better Dublin, AMD will be bought out around mid-2008 when Phenom underwhelms everyone and AMD's stock price hits rock bottom. Lot's of good stuff in the on paper, and maybe in the lab, but AMD surviving without help from some company, with deep pockets, until 2009 is hard to believe.

A buy out may be the best thing that could happen. No one wants Intel to be the sole source of CPUs. AMD as part of , say, Samsung, would change the whole CPU world. If I was Intel I'd let AMD get their breath back just to avoid a buyout by some firm with the money to compete on equal footing.

The fact that AMD could beat Intel for 2-3 years with 1/15th of the operating budget shows that Intel isn't invulnerable. Crushioing AMD right now may be the worst business decision they can make at this time.

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Kelly ....... Jul 30, 2007, 05:35pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
You mean as letting partners down with release schedules, not releasing performance numbers - leaving everyone with little faith in a 'vaporware' product, letting your competitor sell millions of CPU's rather than release some benches and maybe regain some of the market as people would wait to upgrade.


You describe my own situation almost perfectly, Ive been using AMD's since K6, and recently Ive been using their 939 Chips and have been ready to upgrade for a while, and I definitely was not going to go to 940 or AM2, when Intel was offer something so much faster. I've been hoping to see something that shows AMD's next offering will be worth waiting 6+ months for (meanwhile I've got all these games and stuff coming out in the next 1-4months that I want to play while my current system is starting to struggle on recently released games at max settings) then on the 7-21-07 Newegg has Q6600's for $299 and I had yet to hear anything that made me want to wait for AMD so I went ahead and upgraded.

I really hope AMD's next offering is all or at least close to what they say it will be, We might not even have 64bit and multi-core CPU's for consumer's (especially at these prices) if it was not for AMD vs Intel.

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 07:03pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Thats the thing, I dont care what CPU I buiy, once its giving me the right bang for my euro!

You were right to go with that CPU now, its a great price, for fantastic performance.

Your other option was to wait and see what Barcelona holds, which could be very little, and you'll wished you hadn't waited.

On the other hand, it could turn out to be a superb CPU, but how are we to know when we havent seen a single credible (even remotely credible) performance benchmark of it?

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FordGT90Concept Jul 30, 2007, 07:11pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Barcelona is a server chip (multiple socket support). Agena is the Kenstfield competitor.

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 07:37pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
FordGT90Concept said:
Barcelona is a server chip (multiple socket support). Agena is the Kenstfield competitor.



But the only real difference is the number of Hyper transport links.

The reason I used 'Barcelona' is because that is the CPU that will launch first. Agena (Phenom et al) will follow, and will provide pretty much the same performance at the same clock speeds in a single socket system to single socket system comparison.

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FordGT90Concept Jul 30, 2007, 07:55pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Barcelona and Agena are on different sockets. Agena FX may appear on the same socket as Barcelona for QuadFX support. There's a good chance that Agena FX and Barcelona processors are launched at the same time.

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 08:17pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Dueto the extra HTT links. There is really no difference in the core of each CPU.

Just like the FX-7x and other Athlon X2 CPU's. (Socket F & AM2)

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FordGT90Concept Jul 30, 2007, 08:36pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
I never said there was.

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Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 08:39pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Then why bring it up?

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 30, 2007, 08:46pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
I always like how when Sander make a new article, new people join, say their piece, then never return back to their thread to see whats been said.

Dublin_Gunner Jul 30, 2007, 08:51pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
lol

I was going to comment on that earlier, but its been done so many times before by members here I dint bother!

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Jul 30, 2007, 08:58pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
It sorta make me just want to delete the thread. lol

FordGT90Concept Jul 30, 2007, 09:16pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
DublinGunner said:
Then why bring it up?

For people not so keen on the subject know that there is a difference between what this article is about (Agena) and what is coming out soon (Barcelona).

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ko ko Jul 30, 2007, 10:52pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
Mark Allen said:
It sorta make me just want to delete the thread. lol


The fact that that someone felt strongly enough to make an account in order to reveal the errors in Sander's amateur analysis should make this thread and its ideas more valuable for people in this community to view and discuss, not less.

dark41 Jul 31, 2007, 02:45am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
ko ko said:
Mark Allen said:
It sorta make me just want to delete the thread. lol


The fact that that someone felt strongly enough to make an account in order to reveal the errors in Sander's amateur analysis should make this thread and its ideas more valuable for people in this community to view and discuss, not less.


I think that if your point was valid it would have made the thread valuable. Making your point without insulting the Editor in Chief/Founder would make the thread even more valuable.

AMD needs to hold their customer base, and now more than ever. Holding off on benchmarks has done nothing to help their cause, and in fact has cost them more than they could possibly lose by showing impressive scores. The industry has been this way for quite some time as manufacturers strive to get buyers to hold off on upgrades for their next launch. ;)

Someone brought up buy outs, which got me thinking... IBM!! Could be a match made in heaven and put IBM back into the CPU business with a bang. :)

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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Jul 31, 2007, 02:56am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
dark 41, trust me they are working hard on a inovation for CPUs which AMD and Intel may follow suit once they get it perfected, i dont expect releases in 2008 but 2009.

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FordGT90Concept Jul 31, 2007, 03:16am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
dark41 said:
Someone brought up buy outs, which got me thinking... IBM!! Could be a match made in heaven and put IBM back into the CPU business with a bang. :)

IBM was never in the consumer processor market. IBM only deals with servers (POWER5/6 powered enterprise servers). Considering they pretty much dismissed themselves from the consumer market altogether, I highly doubt IBM would buyout AMD. I think if anyone were to buy it out, it would be someone we've probably never heard of and he/she will fire Hector Ruiz and replace much of the key staff that put AMD in this bad situation in the first place (ehm, pretty much everyone that authorized buying out ATI including people on the board of directors).

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Mike L. Jul 31, 2007, 03:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jul 31, 2007, 03:34am EDT

 
>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
ko ko said:
For anyone unsure of what performance it probably will have based on its design, at 3ghz it would probably wipe the floor with anything existing today, including Penryn at 3.2ghz.


You just went on to rant for three paragraphs that AMD was holding back their numbers for a reason, but yet you don't even know what it's capable of - no one does. Now you're telling everyone that it'll "wipe the floor" with a 3.2GHz Penryn?

Edited to remove profanity

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 01, 2007, 10:46am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: This Author does not consider STRATEGY! Never Give Out Benchies and Surprise the enemy.
ko ko said:
Mark Allen said:
It sorta make me just want to delete the thread. lol


The fact that that someone felt strongly enough to make an account in order to reveal the errors in Sander's amateur analysis should make this thread and its ideas more valuable for people in this community to view and discuss, not less.

The fact that you basically just stated opinion gives nothing to prove and (no offense) shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Like what has been said already. No one knows what AMD's new processor is capable of so stating that it will wipe the floor with Penryn is just plain ignorant and you have no facts to back that up.

Think about this. How can one think of strategy if he/she does not know what they are up against?


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