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  Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well? 
 
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Sander Sassen Aug 23, 2007, 03:38am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Well, I guess the column says it all, it really does make you wonder whether there's some serious disagreements on the executive board of AMD regarding which strategy to follow to steer AMD back into calmer waters.

Best regards,


Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Aug 23, 2007, 05:45am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
boy you certainly know how to add more fuel to the fire don't you

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carl 0ski Aug 23, 2007, 06:17am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Your misinterpreting the resignations

AMD has had a superior product for a couple year yet their marketing department remained completely static. Sure a good product can sell itself but there is a limit to what the best product can sell. Marketing at AMD failed to achieve results
Symbolic of this failure is comparison of AMD and Intel from 2001 - 2005. Intel continued to dominate with a below par product thanks to quality marketing.


My workplace for example when the Marketing Director failed to achieve results she was pressured to resign, (else face the humiliation of the sack).

Dublin_Gunner Aug 23, 2007, 06:25am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
I think Sander just outlined what everyone already knows.

AMD is fighting a losing battle unless they do something, and quickly.


I would be of the opinion the Mr. Richard was told get out, or be thrown out. Or, he realised his archaic marketing strategy (or lack thereof) doesnt work when you no longer have a competitive product, and jumped ship before the torpedo hit.

Either way, I think it may be beneficial for AMD to get someone else in that role with fresh ideas, and actually start to market the products.

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andrew kairis Aug 23, 2007, 06:36am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
I think sander is still out to get ati


haha kidding!!

This is interesting because you have the CPU biz where you use the same core archetecture for years (and now even core 2 duo is very loosly based on the old pentium 3 core so you might argue longer than 5 years) So if you got crap now.... you got crap for a while......BUUT you have the GPU biz where you can be down one cycle and back on top the next, because its a totally new core not just modifications or upgrades.

I hope to see the ATi division catch back up like they did with the original radeon. (recall nvidea was faster but ati had better image quality allegidly) As for K10 ... I think buying Ati, might be for amd what buying emachienes was for gateway -- Savior.

vulcan raven Aug 23, 2007, 07:45am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
andrew kairis said:
I think sander is still out to get ati


haha kidding!!

This is interesting because you have the CPU biz where you use the same core archetecture for years (and now even core 2 duo is very loosly based on the old pentium 3 core so you might argue longer than 5 years) So if you got crap now.... you got crap for a while......BUUT you have the GPU biz where you can be down one cycle and back on top the next, because its a totally new core not just modifications or upgrades.

I hope to see the ATi division catch back up like they did with the original radeon. (recall nvidea was faster but ati had better image quality allegidly) As for K10 ... I think buying Ati, might be for amd what buying emachienes was for gateway -- Savior.


the next significant GPU from ati will be the R670 in january, and theres very little chance of it taking away from nvidias G92. Ati say its faster than an 8800 ultra. the 8800 ultra wont be nvidias fastest chip in january will it tho lol. it will be six months after R670 until we see the R700, which could mean it will be a good 8 months after G92 until Ati have a challenger to the G92.

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Carl Martin Aug 23, 2007, 08:00am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Please don't misinterpret this as a criticism of Sander's report. For some time (ever since the benchmarks started coming in last summer for the C2Duos) a lot of folks on these forums have displayed absolute delight over what they see as the impending demise of AMD. I realize a lot of these comments are being written by Intel fan boys, but still, even they must realize that the best thing that can happen for computer enthusiasts is to have a strong AMD and a strong Intel, both companies struggling to develop new, better products.

Since only healthy competition between the two companies can produce innovation and significant development in personal computing, I say: good luck to both of them!

Carl

John Ingram Aug 23, 2007, 08:12am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Just the thing to kill PC gaming. An Intel monopoly forcing prices up for nearly all hardware, making PC gaming even more expensive and finally putting in the last nail. It also won't do good for the general market. More expensive PC's will mean buyers will hold onto what they've got a little longer and PC sales therefore will continue to slide.

When it comes to gaming and home PC's in general, there is little enough competition and regulation as is - if AMD go, god help us all!

Dublin_Gunner Aug 23, 2007, 08:38am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Carl Martin said:
Please don't misinterpret this as a criticism of Sander's report. For some time (ever since the benchmarks started coming in last summer for the C2Duos) a lot of folks on these forums have displayed absolute delight over what they see as the impending demise of AMD. I realize a lot of these comments are being written by Intel fan boys, but still, even they must realize that the best thing that can happen for computer enthusiasts is to have a strong AMD and a strong Intel, both companies struggling to develop new, better products.

Since only healthy competition between the two companies can produce innovation and significant development in personal computing, I say: good luck to both of them!

Carl


I seriously doubt you'll find many Intel fanboys here.

I think the animosity you're seeing is a fair reflection of the current market.

Intel have been innovating & releasing product after product in the past 1.5~ years, whereas we've sen virtually nothing new from AMD.

You'll probably find that the majority of the 'Fanboys' as you call it, were all proud users of K8 based rigs until the advent of Core 2 Duo. 'Performance Fanboys' would be a closer description.

Nobody wants to see AMD go belly up, for a multitude of reasons, but things really arent looking rosy on their side of the fence.

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G. G. Aug 23, 2007, 10:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
DublinGunner said:
I think it may be beneficial for AMD to get someone else in that role with fresh ideas, and actually start to market the products.



Maybe they will go over to Intel's marketing dept and hire somone from that team ???? :)


Carl said:
I realize a lot of these comments are being written by Intel fan boys,


and I would point out Leastcomplicated's qoute.....


leastcmplicated said:
sooooooooo back in the day.......... Whats good for the goose suddenly isnt good for the gander?



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-
Dan Savage Aug 23, 2007, 10:40am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
I must agree it is rather odd but given that fact that I never see AMD advertising
its not surprising they are some moves are going on over there. Marketing is so huge
and INTEL has always had the huge name due to that with a quality product to back
it up.

Brandon DeCoppel Aug 23, 2007, 11:19am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
DublinGunner said:
Carl Martin said:
Please don't misinterpret this as a criticism of Sander's report. For some time (ever since the benchmarks started coming in last summer for the C2Duos) a lot of folks on these forums have displayed absolute delight over what they see as the impending demise of AMD. I realize a lot of these comments are being written by Intel fan boys, but still, even they must realize that the best thing that can happen for computer enthusiasts is to have a strong AMD and a strong Intel, both companies struggling to develop new, better products.

Since only healthy competition between the two companies can produce innovation and significant development in personal computing, I say: good luck to both of them!

Carl


I seriously doubt you'll find many Intel fanboys here.

I think the animosity you're seeing is a fair reflection of the current market.

Intel have been innovating & releasing product after product in the past 1.5~ years, whereas we've sen virtually nothing new from AMD.

You'll probably find that the majority of the 'Fanboys' as you call it, were all proud users of K8 based rigs until the advent of Core 2 Duo. 'Performance Fanboys' would be a closer description.

Nobody wants to see AMD go belly up, for a multitude of reasons, but things really arent looking rosy on their side of the fence.


I vouch 100%

I am still waiting to see if AMD has anything up there sleeve but would endorse an intel build faster than a fatman eats cake.

Lovin' Windows 7
vulcan raven Aug 23, 2007, 11:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 23, 2007, 11:43am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
the thing is that the lack of benches for barcelona isnt impressing the community. its totally suspect and thats why AMD have been battered so much too. intel are allowing engineering samples of penryns to be benched NOW, months from launch right left and centre, under decent control admittedly, but AMD wont allow a single outsider bench, less than a month til the thing is supposed to be available!

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brent valentine Aug 23, 2007, 11:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
i may have been a "fanboy" back in the p1 and p2 days, and i am not sure why i jumped ship.
i have had success with amd products since and i have been waiting patiently for 'the next big thing'. my next quad core will be a true quad and if the performance per watt is less than expected then i just might have to jump again.
if amd didn't have the right idea i don't think intel would be changing it's tune about the use of monolithic cores.
the marketing race has always been won by intel. the blue man group comes to mind. i do think that with the right marketing that even an inferior product can be successful. p3 and p4 come to mind.
maybe a few new fresh minds at the amd/ati camp is exactly what is required to get a much needed jumpstart and start the ball rolling again. but these are just my opinions. and i have been known to be wrong in the past...

FordGT90Concept Aug 23, 2007, 12:33pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 23, 2007, 02:09pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
As I said in another thread, if Barcelona is a flop, they need to cut their losses by downsizing and use the profits gained from converting capital to pay off debt and work on their next microarchitecture. Call it quits for this round and focus on getting competitive again.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
bob lazurs Aug 23, 2007, 06:25pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
The problem all started with AMD switching to DDR2 and AM2 socket, which replaced the 939 chipset that was supposed to be around longer with an inferior socket as they decided to keep the 1207 for the server chips,or maybe they could not get it to work with unregistered dram by the time it was needed but anyway it just gets worse from here on out. Amd with a better a processor than Intel at the time, wanted something to one up Intel, knowing that they had a better interconnect design, decided that having a gpu on the board would really push them ahead of Intel, despite having never built a single gpu or integrated chipset as they were all built by Nvidia.

I have to wonder if they approached nvidia and nvidia started on what would be the rsx eventually, or maybe they tried to buy nvidia which at the time was to expensive since they did not have any debt and AMD was over extended.

Either way Ati started having major quality control issues with their chips and other fabrication issues at this point. In order to one up nvidia they over extended themselves to get transmeta to start fabricating a design two jumps smaller and twice as dense as they were ready for they ran into issues as the hardware had very few good chips off the wafers, yet they were considered the fastest as there was silicon even if no one but the press had it, so when Microsoft when looking for a console, and nvidia told them they were not happy having eaten the cost of the last one, ati must have looked really good fastest videocard none of the fab issues were public knowledge at the time, and nvidia wanted more money. So Microsoft dumps some serious money into Ati's coffers, only instead of fixing the company they decided to spend the money as fast as possible to leverage cache memory to make the numbers as high as possible, possibly M$ had something to do with this, but they add 10 megabytes of cache memory to their memory controller, something Intel did not do until the quadcores came out and only on chips costing far more than the videocards were selling for at the time, only cache memory must be access at the low level instead of high level so the memory controller had to have its fingers in everything anyway, making it perform the same function cpu cache does, except in videocards case the information can be reused over many operations, giving the ati design it's edge. Only when they translated to add on videocards now the data has to cost the bus to get to the ring controller, killing much of the advantage as the cpu knows what is needed in advance but not the gpu so the decision as to what is kept in memory and what is not is now up to the drivers and cpu programming.

Needless to say this hurt ati a lot more than they were willing to take about, forcing them into talks with Amd as they do not have the money to produce the cards they designed. M$ sales of xbox 360's come and and they release more cards and chipsets, opening the door to third parties uses the chipsets only instead of boards made by ati.

Amd is building up it's interconnect structure to support dumping as much bandwidth over it as possible it shows two processors that will talk to each other as fast as possible. Intel releases two processors ducktaped together but working more like Amd chipsets doing the work as fast as the MHz will allow the core2 sell like hot cakes. Amd alienates nvidia over something I never did get to find out what that was, but nvidia starts working with Intel to improve Intel motherboards, they are the first company to ever get Intel's support for third party chipsets on Intel motherboards. Ati re-invents the annoying video dongles that sucked back in the day on the voodoo cards. Amd releases the two core boards they simply are slower than Intel's interconnect on die and make Amd look like an idiot for mocking Intel's use of an interconnect when they did not ever use that! Ati over extended can not afford to fab their current chips for
their videocards, they agree to be bought by Amd, the news gets out for the sec inquiry. Nvidia at this point has built the motherboard and gpu/northbridge for the cell processor, and is more than willing to tell Amd where to go, leak the details of the 8800, no one believes are even possible, but it is enough that Ati decides to sell to AMD. AMD/ATI realize more debt than they have anyway of getting out as
both were low margin companies. AMD blind to what people want continue on and build whatever they can sell their stockholders on. Intel continues to use all three of it's cpu teams to get even faster, and continues to use the interconnect as AMD the one who mocked it has not ever gotten to that point, with their so called native quad core.

Nvidia having spent the last few years building motherboards that are designed around gaming systems as they designed the motherboards for two console systems the original xbox and the chipset and motherboard layout for sony's cell system, ie PS3. At some point prior to the release of the 8800 decide that Quality control over the over clocked 7000 series is a problem use their in house company foxconn to build the initial release of both the 8000 series and accompanying Intel based motherboard, thumbing their nose at AMD.

AMD/ATI becomes just AMD, and screws around not doing anything as it figures out who to fire, oh I mean downsize... they release more chips that are a joke compared to core2 chips which just get faster and faster. They release an ATI card that is slower than Nvidia's six month old gpu, and tell the public it is faster and and faster ones are coming, later the chip was apparently not supposed to be faster that is the next revision... more junk comes out of AMD and people wonder what is going on I tell ya its simply what happened to voodoo you can not buy smaller companies and expect a luxury product to support ever growing number of mouths.

*Edited by Moderator*
Use proper sentence structure or future posts will be deleted.

Gerritt Aug 23, 2007, 06:32pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
A couple of observations:

1. Oh, how I "Jones", for the good old days of having a choice between value, performance and/or compatibility was easy!

2. Bailing out could be an ego thing, given that a CEO is now a EVP....not exactly a good resume' padder on that level. Are the developers or "troops in the trenches" defecting, or just the money grubbing "generals"? I personally could care less which of the "money men" leave, if the engineering staff is left intact, and there is enough of an expectation for innovation or penetration left with the company, even if on a smaller scale for now.

Just my 2 cents, which won't buy a cup of coffee, but may get you a Z-80 in bulk.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
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CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 23, 2007, 06:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Why do all the articles lately have to bash AMD?

SuPeR Xp Aug 23, 2007, 06:54pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Sander Sassen said:
Well, I guess the column says it all, it really does make you wonder whether there's some serious disagreements on the executive board of AMD regarding which strategy to follow to steer AMD back into calmer waters.

Best regards,

I still think AMD needs a new CEO. Because they would have never been in this mess to begin with if they had a new CEO back then.

Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies even closer, and he did not.

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Sander Sassen Aug 23, 2007, 07:31pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Mark,

Agreed, I think the subject of AMD's apparant demise has been covered from every angle twice by now, I'll give them some room to breathe now okay :D

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Richard Crowley Aug 23, 2007, 08:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
How amusing. Were you asking "why do all the articles lately have to bash Intel" a few months ago?:bored:


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