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  Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well? 
 
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Albert Crocker Aug 23, 2007, 09:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Sander Sassen said:
... I think the subject of AMD's apparant demise has been covered from every angle twice by now, I'll give them some room to breathe now okay :D

Best regards,


Thank you for that, Sander! I was beginning to wonder if you had become obsessed... ;)

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R James Aug 24, 2007, 07:11am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Aug 24, 2007, 07:14am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
AMD has had my business ever since the Thunderbird. I for one would like them to continue as the comptetion helps to keep things a bit cheaper. Imagine if Intel were the only CPU game in town. They could price how they want and the annual performance updates would just be minor compared to how they are now. I like the new Intel chips and one of them will be in my next build. of course the ball is in AMDs court though on that decision.

The video market also needs ATI. I'm not happy with the video card market as it is. Too much products coming up with minor updates from the other. Not major leaps like before. I miss the days of good old 3DFX where a moderate purchase could get you gaming pretty well. Compared to if you tried gaming with a budget Nvidia card these days. With the high end cards developers don't even have time to develop for them before something newer comes out.

Dual core this, Quad core this, SLI that, Crossfire this... Where will it all end? Will we have 10 GPUs in our PCs in 10 years time hooked up to 4,000W PSUs? >:o

PCs have always had the reputation that what you purchase is out of date before you even leave the store. It's even more true now.

Well rant over... AMD needs some new ideas and a new direction. Some smart effective marketing can be done on a budget if done correctly. This can get the name out there to the average non technical person who only knows the Wintel world because that is what is advertised on TV.


Michael A. Aug 24, 2007, 07:19am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Who cares if the processor is made by AMD or Intel...or anyone for that matter? Whoever can make the best product for the value will always get my business. My last two builds were AMD, but this time around the E6600 from Intel was hard to turn down. To me they all take me to the same Windows and run the same programs.

Michael A.
Website: http://itnode.net
Darren Reynolds Aug 24, 2007, 11:36am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Mark the answer is that Sander hasn't got anything else to say ... so he jumps on the "Ed" bandwagon ... checkout overclockers.com if you don't believe me.

I think Ed and Sander might be the same person ... wait ... no ... Sander's command of English is a cut above Ed.

Maybe Intel is sponsoring these stories ??

If the duopoly turns into a monopoly I expect cpu upgrades to drop to 20 mhz increments and in 5 years time we will still have a massive current drawing cache driven bottlenecked fsb x86 dog going nowhere ... with a bloatware OS effectively grinding us back to Windows 3.0 days.

Real competition has bred great innovation over the last few years.

I will continue to buy AMD CPU's and prop them up a bit longer ... hey the 6000+ systems I bought are dirt cheap and grunty boxes too !! Sure they aren't core2 6600's but they are close ... and the mobos are half the price!!!

It's obvious you don't have any ES silicon there to play with ... so your just playing the sad card.

We might all get a mixed bag of results indicative of a rework designed to maximise a server designed system ... not a gaming box.

Might also have some awesome power saving features that Penryn hs failed to deliver.

Might also get some results you might not like ... which I am sure you will dribble on about.

I'll reserve my judgement.

You flopped that test didn't you??


CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 24, 2007, 12:04pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Richard Crowley said:
How amusing. Were you asking "why do all the articles lately have to bash Intel" a few months ago?:bored:

I have no clue.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 24, 2007, 12:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Michael Adames (Admin) said:
Who cares if the processor is made by AMD or Intel...or anyone for that matter? Whoever can make the best product for the value will always get my business. My last two builds were AMD, but this time around the E6600 from Intel was hard to turn down. To me they all take me to the same Windows and run the same programs.

Same goes for me. I havent owned an Intel machine since my Gateway with a Pentium III. Every build after that has been AMD which is about a half a dozen or so. This last round, I went Intel and got a Q6600. I am quite pleased with it to say the least. I love it more than my Opteron 165.

I was just arguing with a fanboy for AMD just yesterday on how he thinks the socket 1207 is the best socket and how AMD has the best CPU's out right now. He actually thinks that having two dual core CPU's in his system is better than my one CPU quad core. Everything I presented him with yesterday, he could not fight back about. Like I said, a total fanboy.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Aug 24, 2007, 12:24pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Darren Reynolds said:
Mark the answer is that Sander hasn't got anything else to say ... so he jumps on the "Ed" bandwagon ... checkout overclockers.com if you don't believe me.

I think Ed and Sander might be the same person ... wait ... no ... Sander's command of English is a cut above Ed.

Maybe Intel is sponsoring these stories ??

If the duopoly turns into a monopoly I expect cpu upgrades to drop to 20 mhz increments and in 5 years time we will still have a massive current drawing cache driven bottlenecked fsb x86 dog going nowhere ... with a bloatware OS effectively grinding us back to Windows 3.0 days.

Real competition has bred great innovation over the last few years.

I will continue to buy AMD CPU's and prop them up a bit longer ... hey the 6000+ systems I bought are dirt cheap and grunty boxes too !! Sure they aren't core2 6600's but they are close ... and the mobos are half the price!!!

It's obvious you don't have any ES silicon there to play with ... so your just playing the sad card.

We might all get a mixed bag of results indicative of a rework designed to maximise a server designed system ... not a gaming box.

Might also have some awesome power saving features that Penryn hs failed to deliver.

Might also get some results you might not like ... which I am sure you will dribble on about.

I'll reserve my judgement.

You flopped that test didn't you??


For one -like I have already stated in a post above this one and a couple right after the one I just quoted here - I have owned about 6 AMD rigs. All have served me well. I am not a fanboy in anyway. I go with what I can afford to get. Price/performance. Thats it. So no, I am not playing the "sad card". It just seems as though you like to pick out people, call them out, and hope they embarrass themself. Im not claiming to know it all about processors. Far from it. There are people here that can tell you how the CPU works and why. I cant. Nor do I care. I just care that it does what its supposed to do as quickly as it can. I loathe slow moving things. That goes for anything and everything. I do not have the patience for it nor do I have the patience in you basically saying that I am a fanboy of Intel and that I do not know what I am talking about. Check out my HWA bio. It lists every computer that I have personally built myself and used over the course of the past 3 years. That is not including the systems I have built for my brother and my father. Id be more than happy to build a computer my mother, but she has no interest in computers like I or anyone else does.

The only reason why motherboards are cheaper for AMD is because they keep slashing prices so that way they can bring in more customers because Intel is pwning them in the processor race. Unless they deliver with Barcelona and Phenom, AMD is going to be screwed for a while.

So, did I indeed flop this "test"?

Oh and by the way, Id like to point out this statement made by you.

Might also get some results you might not like ... which I am sure you will dribble on about.

Like I already stated, I am NOT a fanboy. So if the results of the newest processor line is in fact better than Intels current and upcomingofferings, I don't care. I wont babble on about how AMD has better offerings but yet Intel still owns the processor market. You wont see that from me. Comb through the forums where I have shown continuous fanboyism for either company. So to answer your statement you made there; no, I will not "dribble" on about AMD's "results".

Rakesh Malik Aug 24, 2007, 01:18pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
I hope Barcelona gets AMD back to profitability myself, because I like competition in the marketplace also.

However, I disagree with one side effect of losing AMD, and that is that Intel would drive up prices... because I doubt that Intel would be able to. The reality is that even without AMD out there, Intel has a huge competitor: Intel.

If Intel tries to drive up prices and slow the pace of upgrades, Intel will lose money. If Intel doesn't come up with new features, Intel will be hard pressed to convince anyone to buy their new products, and Intel will lose money.

Having said that, AMD's effect on the market hasn't been limited to driving prices down. x86-64 is the most obvious example of something Intel did because AMD forced their hand, but not the only one.

Unlike in other markets like operating systems, the barriers for entry into the CPU market are enormous, so if AMD goes down, it might be an eternity before we see another strong competitor in that space.

Darren Reynolds Aug 25, 2007, 12:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Mark my apologies ... the venom was meant to be directed at Sander's "let's jump on the bash AMD bandgawon" ... not you.

I agree with you entirely ...

I got carried away toward the end and forgot I acknowledged you at the beginning.

Ooops ...



andrew kairis Aug 25, 2007, 04:41pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Rakesh Malik said:


Unlike in other markets like operating systems, the barriers for entry into the CPU market are enormous, so if AMD goes down, it might be an eternity before we see another strong competitor in that space.


Any market where you design microprocessors. GPU, CPU, (now even sound cards), Cell phone chips Memory of any type. Has those same barriers.
That being said, I think nVidea is alot like intel, they would continue to innovate.

However one thing microsoft has shown is that big companies like this are at thier best when they are being kept on thier toes by some other company. MS has always done best when they had someone to target. Look at IE and netscape, and what they are doing to combat google now vs when they had no clear opponent.

Sailendran Iswara Jothi Oct 09, 2007, 11:36pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Carl Martin said:
Please don't misinterpret this as a criticism of Sander's report. For some time (ever since the benchmarks started coming in last summer for the C2Duos) a lot of folks on these forums have displayed absolute delight over what they see as the impending demise of AMD. I realize a lot of these comments are being written by Intel fan boys, but still, even they must realize that the best thing that can happen for computer enthusiasts is to have a strong AMD and a strong Intel, both companies struggling to develop new, better products.

Since only healthy competition between the two companies can produce innovation and significant development in personal computing, I say: good luck to both of them!

Carl


Well there is no lie that I am an Intel Fan, but I am getting worried with the rates of the price in the market of Intel Processors which is disseminating my faith in the product. All this aside I might consider switching from Intel to AMD like how I went from NVidia to ATI.

I guess if AMD finally launches the Quad Processor as promised, I think a proper switch to will be in order. Making money is a good thing...always, but sometimes it just doesnt keep customers.

Regards,
Sailendran Iswara Jothi

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MSI 865PE-Neo2 Mainboard
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Rakesh Malik Oct 10, 2007, 12:00pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
andrew kairis said:
Rakesh Malik said: [quote]
Any market where you design microprocessors. GPU, CPU, (now even sound cards), Cell phone chips Memory of any type. Has those same barriers.
That being said, I think nVidea is alot like intel, they would continue to innovate.


Agreed. I didn't intend to exclude GPU and embedded markets, just point out that it would be very difficult for anyone to fill the void if AMD tanks. And in any case, nVidia and Intel would still have themselves to compete with, which would force them to innovate every bit as much as a strong competitor. The main difference is that a strong competitor will come up with different things (like 64-bit desktop CPU's, even though hardly anyone is using a 64-bit desktop OS yet), and put more time pressure on the gorillas.

In spite of that, if AMD tanked and Intel and nVidia sat on their laurels for a while, people would stop upgrading, and it would become increasingly difficult for either one to sell their high-end, high-margin products, which drives down their average selling price and therefore their revenue. It would take quite a bit longer than it did for AMD to snarf up 20% of the server market (for example), for them to feel the effect, of course.


However one thing microsoft has shown is that big companies like this are at thier best when they are being kept on thier toes by some other company. MS has always done best when they had someone to target. Look at IE and netscape, and what they are doing to combat google now vs when they had no clear opponent.


I agree with that as well, in part for the reason I mentioned above. A strong competitor will also tend to do things that aren't already part of the corporate culture, and 64-bit desktop processors is one (out of many) example, even though hardly anyone is running a 64-bit desktop OS at the moment, even among the early adopters. (Ahead of its time, rather than wrong, IMO. We just haven't hit the limits of 32-bit addressing yet, but I don't think it will be all that long now.)

Mr Frankenstein Dec 08, 2007, 07:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
I think yer all wrong about AMD. They are just getting started down a road that Intel will trip on when the energy prices get so high that you can't afford to run an Intel proc. Then AMD will be king of the hill for a generation or three.

AMD is looking forward to the future when the dollar savings outweigh the speed factor. Imagine running a CPU farm at 50K dollars a year less running AMD green machines than a Intel power hog. The all mighty dollar always has the last word in corporate business.

In addition to the power savings AMD is looking at the real world. Computers are so fast now that the average joe blow consumer doesn't use all the CPU power even 50% of the time. In the real world more people surf the web and edit photos and video. They will most likely by a system that get the video done fast enough and even a lowly Athlon XP can do that. Add the latest SATA II and PCIe and it's good enough. It's time to start thinking about energy conservation in PC computing while at the same time gain speed.

Can you imagine running a game like Crysis on 50% power? I can and I look forward to the day when my laptop edits video as fast using only a battery.

Mr Frankenstein Dec 08, 2007, 08:18pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Besides saving money I hear AMD has a newer version of thier HyperTransport v3.0 Instead of labeling it a version 4 they are renaming it Super HyperTransport. Code named Demon. The marketing is supposed to be something like when the SHYT hits the fan all hell will break loose.

Gerritt Dec 11, 2007, 06:36pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
For those of you that think that Intel will continue to produce better processors with the same pricing strategy as is present with competition in the future, without competition, you are (based upon historical practices) wrong. Whether it be the Zilog Z80 against the Intel 8008 or NEC/VIA derivitives against the 8086/80286 in the early days or AMD/Motorola in the 80386 and beyond market, Intel has shown a resistance to undercutting thier present products with new products unless forced to do so by external competition.

I'd love a return to the days of the Motorola vs. Intel architecture wars, as the approaches were TOTALLY different and both worth having in differing environments, alas that is not to be; at least for a few year, until the cell processors with 16 general purpose cores or better with the proper supporting bus and microcode become mainstream. What I'm avocating here is the return to RISC cores with CISC front ends (via HW or microcode).

Until then we need these behemoths to continue to butt heads on what is reletively equivilent architectures with slight evalutionary differences in implementation.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
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Rakesh Malik Dec 11, 2007, 07:06pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Gerritt said:
For those of you that think that Intel will continue to produce better processors with the same pricing strategy as is present with competition in the future, without competition, you are (based upon historical practices) wrong. Whether it be the Zilog Z80 against the Intel 8008 or NEC/VIA derivitives against the 8086/80286 in the early days or AMD/Motorola in the 80386 and beyond market, Intel has shown a resistance to undercutting thier present products with new products unless forced to do so by external competition.


That's not at all true. Intel continued to develop new processors even when AMD and Cyrix couldn't keep up, because that was they only way to keep growing their market. If they didn't develop new products, they'd saturate the market and start losing a LOT of money.


I'd love a return to the days of the Motorola vs. Intel architecture wars, as the approaches were TOTALLY different and both worth having in differing environments, alas that is not to be; at least for a few year, until the cell processors with 16 general purpose cores or better with the proper supporting bus and microcode become mainstream. What I'm avocating here is the return to RISC cores with CISC front ends (via HW or microcode).


Yes, one was made for computers (Intel) and the other for networking and other embedded control systems (Motorola). Moto didn't do squat to Intel, because their products didn't compete directly. And while Apple was using them, Cisco, Ericsson, and Nortel were each buying over 10x as many processors from Motorola as Apple was, so Motorola had no incentive whatsoever to attempt to compete with and get steamrolled by Intel.


Until then we need these behemoths to continue to butt heads on what is reletively equivilent architectures with slight evalutionary differences in implementation.


The current Intel and AMD architetures are quite different from each other.

Gerritt Dec 11, 2007, 11:38pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Besides money, AMD is hemorrhaging employees as well?
Rakesh,
You are at least a decade behind what I was referencing.
Go back to the 1970s or the 1980s and look for the "Mainframe on a Chip" and you'll see the Motorola leading.
Though I worked on Intel systems prior to the 1990s, the only home systems that I ever had were based upon the 8502, 8510, and 68000 chips. When I moved into the space program, the only workstations available were still 68000- 880000 series Motorola CPUs.

As NEC and MOTOROLA have gotten out of the CPU market, we have to deal with what is left, the x86/64 market. Even the MACINTOSH is originally based around the 68000 CPU.
To argue that these were imbedded procs is a non sequitor.

The Motorola 68000 and the Intel derivative, the 88000, are both more advanced for the age than the present x64 x86 derivatives.

All you have to look at is the Intel based Battlechess vs. the Amiga battlechess. Or any Silicon graphics machine.

Yes, today, Intel and AMD have caught up with the Motorola offerings of 20 years ago, and we are arguing about which on does it better.

As previously stated, I'd like to see the older proccessors back in the mix.

NEC, Motorola, Zilog, et. all.

Gerritt
Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
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