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Sander Sassen Nov 14, 2007, 03:19pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Bobby,

You take all the fun out of the discussion, that part was only to be made public after we've had a lot more replies, so we can gauge how people view this approach. When, and why, people would go to these lengths to get their hands on a eagerly awaiting piece of software, a game in this case. If I'd made it a hypothetical column the replies wouldn't have been this open and honest, now many of you have clearly spoken their minds and that was what I was after. So yes, I took you by the nose, but just to get an accurate and honest reply from you, not one that was based on 'what if', or 'imagine I would'.

Cheers,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
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Bitmap Nov 14, 2007, 03:25pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
The fact remains that you lied to your readers, Sander. Shall I compare you to the morons at the Inquirer now? Lying just to get a rise out of your readers?

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Sander Sassen Nov 14, 2007, 03:32pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Bobby,

You need to reread my previous reply, if you can't see it from that perspective then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Sometimes people will not give you a honest reply unless you back them up in a corner, or feed them something which they think actually happened, ie. is real, that's what I did. This would've been an entirely different discussion if I had mentioned I was 'thinking' about downloading it off of a p2p network.

Cheers,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Bitmap Nov 14, 2007, 03:45pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Sander,

I will not be part of a group in which my superiors use deceitful tactics just make an extra buck. I will not be a part of a group in which my superior is a liar, and thinks that's okay. I will not be a part of a group in which falsities are presented as facts.

Consider this my letter of resignation from Hardware Analysis, both as a moderator, and as a member.

Take care.

________
"None of you understand. I'm not locked up in here with you. YOU'RE locked up in here with ME." - Walter Kovacs, A.K.A. Rorschach.
Sander Sassen Nov 14, 2007, 03:51pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
use deceitful tactics just make an extra buck


That's soo far from the truth that I'm not even going do you the courtesy of replying. If you feel compelled to quit as moderator, that's your decision.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Hugh Scriven Nov 14, 2007, 04:26pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
It is gratifying to find that a few of the responders in this topic are able to make use of their God given consciousness to find a simple and equitable solution to a "problem" which need not exist.

The rest of you have shown yourselves to be fearful, dumbed down, politic-sucking woosies who will lick the shoes of any who proclaims himself "master!"

What a sorry state of affairs for any who claim to be men. By your high sounding self glorifying rhetoric you show yourselves as emotional Fe-men.

There is clearly more than one way to skin a cat. As long as the creator of a product receives just compensation does it really matter how many, or how few, hoops were jumped through in the process?


Shripad Kudtarkar Nov 14, 2007, 04:38pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 04:57pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Hi,
I am from India and as a hobby I put out hardware and game reviews on a Indian forum.
You guys talk about launch dates and prices in US/EU. I am here to give a unique perspective for you guys.
Here in India. Games sometimes are released months after the US/EU release. Fortunately lately game companies are releasing it quicker, but still there is too much delay most of the time.
Pricing has changed a lot here in past few years. Games used to be priced same as US$ conversion. But publishers in past failed to understand that that pricing does not work in India. Even if game is released at $49.99, it will not sale here. $50 is large amount for us. Its significant amount from monthly paycheque that average India earns making it almost impossible to even remotely consider buying any game legally for gamers here. ( Just to give you guys an idea, $50 can buy food for family of 4 for entire month here. )
That has changed a lot with prices coming down to $30 or so here.
But even that is considerable money. Huge amount for some. This equals to entire pocket money ( sometimes 2-3 month pocket money for college / school going children ) of some kids. or 1/5th the monthly salary of simple diploma passout engineer in small company.

And console games still continue to sell at $50 mark. And delay is there as usual.
Combination of this simply erases even thought of buying games for the average gamer here. So according to some of you, people here should not pay the games at all as they cant afford it right? Even me who can and does buy games cant even think like that or even justify if its wrong for people to pirate stuff. Because here it means you either pirate or you never ever game...........
I personally buy and play very limited games but I do buy them. I have preordered Crysis but I dont know when it will land in my hands here. What a pity......:angry:

FordGT90Concept Nov 14, 2007, 04:40pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 04:42pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis


People who pirate software titles are unlikely to buy the title even if there was no way to pirate it.

Is this true of you, Sander? If not, why not just wait until the price comes down to an amount you deem it worthy of paying?

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Julian Innerhofer Nov 14, 2007, 04:48pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 04:53pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
angryhippy said:
$80.66US for a game? That's outrageous! Hoist the Jolly Roger!

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
H. L. Mencken


But this is a normal price in europe for PC-games (console games aare even more expensive), at least when you buy it in a store. The most expensive game I ever bought were for 59.99. The last game I bought for this price was the Kane Edition of C&C 3, which is the only real option in german speaking countrys, because it contains the uncensored original version. The geerman version is censored in all german speaking countrys, not only in germany because there is a law in germany that the uncensored version cannot be sold in a normal way. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indizierung (Google translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipe...mp;ie=UTF8 ).

The reason, why agames are expensive in Europe compared to the USA is that the prices in both economies for games didn't change much in the last few years, althought the Euro gained much value compared to the US-Dollar. This graqph shows the value of the Euro compared to the US-Dollar since 2000: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/EurUsd.png

The inflation in the USA was not big enought to compansate for the losses of the $, so everything is cheap compared to western europe in the USA now, althought the differences for video games are bigger than for most other products.

But not all games are so expensive, actually most new PC-games are sold for 39.99, and the number of new PC-games for 29.99 is increasing.

FordGT90Concept Nov 14, 2007, 05:00pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
dark41 said:
I agree that waiting for products produced in the USA in other countries is a PITA. But the USA economy is collapsing, and I think that's a good thing. The entire world will be better off with a standard economy that is not based upon the USD which hasn't been based upon anything since Nixon took it off the gold standard. The USD has been losing ground since the 1920s. It's collapse is inevitable IMO, and long overdue.

Do you not remember the economic scare a few months ago where Asian markets took a dive for no apparent reason then the Europe and North American markets also dived in response? If the American market collapses, all other markets will be severely hurt. This is a world economy now, it's not localized. Be careful what you wish for because it could really, really hurt you no matter how distant it seems.


Right now, the stock market is relatively strong but the housing market is weak. Housing markets are often what lead economies into recession and depression follows when the stock market drops. The value of the dollar is falling because of all the debt the US is accumulating. The good news is that pretty much every presidential candidate is calling for transparency and a strict policy on earmarks. Those measures should clean up a lot of the federal debt which is currently killing the dollar. We have to survive another year or two before that will happen though as I can't see Bush doing anything about it.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Sander Sassen Nov 14, 2007, 05:00pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
FordGT90Concept said:


People who pirate software titles are unlikely to buy the title even if there was no way to pirate it.

Is this true of you, Sander? If not, why not just wait until the price comes down to an amount you deem it worthy of paying?


My bookshelves are filled with retail game boxes, so I can't really say that applies to me. I usually download the demo and if I like what I see I buy the game, regardless of price. I must confess that the last few years I only buy the games that really get excellent ratings ie. HL2 and similar titles. I'm not the avid gamer I used to be, especially when I was in my 20s I often spent more time playing games, both on- and offline than studying, but now my priorities have shifted and the little spare time I have goes toward other things.

Cheers,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
FordGT90Concept Nov 14, 2007, 05:05pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
So, why not be patient and wait until the price comes down? From what I hear (and can testify to), most game downloaders are absolutely craptastic. I think if I were to buy Crysis, I would wait until it's on the shelves.

________________________
If I remember what I forgot, I have not forgotten it.
Brendan Falvey Nov 14, 2007, 05:42pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Sander what a hornets nest!

While your choice of words many have been naive your sentiments are spot on. While I understand the intent and objectives of DRM to me the arrogance of the purveyors when you consider the first rootkit was developed by Sony to manage DRM coded content that caused many users no end of heartache

Here in Oz we were victims of the DVD region impost now it has been all but dropped. the purpose to prevent people buy overseas to get an early copy of a release. we were at the mercy of the whim of the marketing gurus.

This is very much the same if you can buy your software wherever on disc do so. Unless you need the latest I used to by previous versions and immediately update or cross grade.

Gunner and others raise issues of tax. This is usually a percentage of source value say 20% of $35 would be about an additional $7 say Euro 4.50 the rest is greedy middle men

Sander is right in that we are being ripped off and the bullies then carry on like victims when the market goes outside its tight control.

At least with more general software we can go elsewhere and vote with our credit card.


Mills Lane Nov 14, 2007, 05:44pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
I'm so sick of hearing people from Europe complain about being 'ripped off' due to the exchange rate on the USD.

Did you ever think that you probably earn the same NOMINAL wage that an American would in your position? Thus, you are technically earning the exchange rate percentage more in USD. It follows that you are forfeiting the same portion of your wage to purchase the item, therefore the cost is THE SAME.

No, there couldn't be real economic reasons why prices are not set based on the exchange rate in every other country... it is just a big conspiracy to rip off people in Europe. Right.

Shripad Kudtarkar Nov 14, 2007, 05:46pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 05:54pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
I have question to those who are against the viewpoint of the writer of this article. ( I dont know the guy so dont even bother accusing me of defending him, this is my 2nd ever comment here :P ).
Do u guys think legality > ethics?
If thats the case, half the world would still be under British rule.
In the end if you cannot justify something, you have to oppose it by one way or other. Legality does not matter.
And if you are gonna play by the rule, in half the countries in this world there are no strict piracy rules. Here in my country its not illegal to download something which is not sold in my country. There is no rule against this. Does that mean its legal for me to download 90% of the Hollywood movies which are never released here or game titles, albums which never makes it here?
When it comes to digital distribution, atleast here none of the regular trade laws apply. Customs, retail tax are not applicable if its purchased form other country as a digital copy.

Does anyone here have a proof that different laws apply in EU even for digital distribution?
If not then EA is logically and ethically wrong to charge more to EU customers on purchase of digital copy.

IMHO digital copy should always cause less than retail as distribution costs are eliminated. Or if they are charging the same then larger portion of the cost should be given to the developers. Does this happen? NO.
Stop feeling sorry for EA......
They have already destroyed PC gaming industry.

Also to counter that cost of living and EU guys technically earns more so games cost them more though.
Considering an average joe who works as engineer somewhere earns say $2000 monthly in US. They are asking you $50 for game. That means you are paying 2.5% of the monthly income for game.
Same might be case for EU user who earns 2000 Euro monthly.

Here average engineer earns $550 ( this is lot of money here, higher middle class ;) ). So games should cost us $13 right? Well guess what, it does not. it costs more than twice of that.....

Rooin Nov 14, 2007, 06:54pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Sander Sassen said:
Bobby,

You take all the fun out of the discussion, that part was only to be made public after we've had a lot more replies, so we can gauge how people view this approach. When, and why, people would go to these lengths to get their hands on a eagerly awaiting piece of software, a game in this case. If I'd made it a hypothetical column the replies wouldn't have been this open and honest, now many of you have clearly spoken their minds and that was what I was after. So yes, I took you by the nose, but just to get an accurate and honest reply from you, not one that was based on 'what if', or 'imagine I would'.

Cheers,



Unfortunately your really not going to find much other reaction then "don't do it Sander" because the people of this forum, read and understand the rules of no illegal conduct being discussed. An honestly, when the Lead Moderator comes out pirate guns a blazing, no ones going to believe you've done it. At least they shouldn't. There was not one point in time that I felt you had actually gone out an attempted to pirate Crysis. You more or less sounded like a man letting off steam. I feel you were more less making an "open letter" to EA, an reminding them about how much they are going to eat it when the people who do pirate games accomplish their goal. and eat away at their sales.

I am going to download Crysis off of a P2P network. Here is a big 'FU' to EA, if you do not want my money, but rather charge me double because I am not physically located in the US, you deserve to be pirated.


Reading over the column theres no point in time where he states he downloaded anything. People who are saying "I hope it bites you in the ass" or anything along those lines, doesn't take into consideration who was speaking apparently. The very person who came up with the rules of no piracy talk, or other such illegal activities. Not so much to protect himself, or the forums, but for the fact that its something he obviously believes in.

Looking at that google search link above, yes HWA is at the top of the list for "pirate crysis" but do you notice what else is on that list? People obviously are going to see this thread an realize theres no piracy going on here, just talk about how bad it is. If anything, this is a good way to get people thinking about what not to do.

I say attentions been drawn, and good if EA or someone else finds the thread. Maybe they will actually read it, an see somethings they obviously could do differently. Then again, probably not, but so what? It's been one hell of a discussion thread none the less.

================================================================
"Even Satan wouldn't use customer service as a form of punishment." - Lucas http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com
Dave Nov 14, 2007, 07:07pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 07:09pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Having read your entralling article I have thus decided to never pay anything for anything again. After all, fuel is always cheaper somewhere else, I mean come on, I can't get petrol in the UK for the same price as it is in America, so i'll just relocate some to my car in the interests of freedom. Also, those burgers at Burger King are probably cheaper in America so i'll break in and have some of them too. While i'm about it, ill smash my way into someones house and nick their TV, because while I could get it I have thus decided that me actually paying for a product is disgusting, and therefore others have to suffer for my gain.

YEAEAHAH! Question Authority! Way to encourage others to do the same by the way. I mean, seriously good stuff. EA are bastards, so lets punish Crytek who spent years on this game. Good work.

Oh, wait. Almost everything you can buy costs a hell of a lot less in America, it is not, I'm afraid, just Crysis.

...Sorry, I would have thought you'd have realised this.

To the guy above me, I saw this humerous post. (I can't use the quote thing, this is just as easy)

"Reading over the column theres no point in time where he states he downloaded anything"

You know, I would have thought "HOW EA GAMES PUSHED ME TO PIRATE CRYSIS" gave it away a bit.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 14, 2007, 08:03pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Im still disappointed in this article.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 14, 2007, 08:13pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Eternal Flame said:
You know, I would have thought "HOW EA GAMES PUSHED ME TO PIRATE CRYSIS" gave it away a bit.

Cant forget this:

I am going to download Crysis off of a P2P network.


I now feel as though this whole article has affected HWA's reputation as a forum.

Scumbag Blues Nov 14, 2007, 08:49pm EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 14, 2007, 08:50pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
I can understand where you might be coming from Sander Sassen, but I think a little foresight should have been employed in this case. You did intentionally bend (if not completely shatter) the rules you, yourself, employed to "generate a thread for the soul purpose of getting replys". This is clearly not going to give new members a good influence to start off with seeing as the owner of this site is breaking his own rules. What's stopping others from doing the same?

The reason why Hardware Analysis is so successful is because we have such a high standard to live by. We do not allow racism, flaming and excessive swearing which has made plenty of other forums become quagmires with immaturity rampant. All of sudden, you post a new article, and on the frontpage for that matter, suddenly deciding that rules should be 'bent' to generate views and replys?

What the hell is that?

As you can see, not only have you made yourself and anyone defending you targets for flaming and badgering, you've broken the high standard Hardware Analysis had and most importantly, a well respected moderator, Bobby Phillipps, decided to resign as a moderator and member of Hardware Analysis. So now we have a site owner bending his own rules, a moderator gone, and we have a complete mess of a situation due to your lack of judgment of a decision. I accept we all go through this stage more than once, but to post it as a frontpage article and to throw it to the wind saying, "no, don't worry, I only want to see what you guys say about this"? Well, what do you think people are going to say first when you just broke the rules? You can't completely ignore what human nature will most likely point to.

Do you think it was worth the price in posting this frontpage article which in reality, and no offence, was simply an indulgence and lack of foresight on your part? I don't think so, and I hope someone locks this thread or even removes this article completely soon. Preferably, it would be you Sander Sassen.

~

Intel i7 2600K @ 4.4GHz | Gigabyte P67A-UD4 | G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1600 4GB | XFX Radeon HD 6950

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