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  Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis 
 
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Julian Innerhofer Nov 16, 2007, 07:10pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Eternal Flame said:
Having read your entralling article I have thus decided to never pay anything for anything again. After all, fuel is always cheaper somewhere else, I mean come on, I can't get petrol in the UK for the same price as it is in America, so i'll just relocate some to my car in the interests of freedom.


But this is not the fault of the petrol industry, because the reason for the higher petrol prices in europe are the higher taxes.

Its the same as w/ cigaretts, which cost a lot more in the UK than in germany and a lot more in germany than in hungary.

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TamTheBam Nov 16, 2007, 07:34pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis

FFS give Sander a break. Is it not right for someone ot openly dicuss their
views and opinions. Everyone here has had a go at him. And moderators, i suggest
this thread be completely removed to avoid any further embarrassment. For newcomers
to come into HWA and read all this doesn't help this site at all. The sooner this's all
cleared up the better. This thread is technically a flame. Do something about it now.

....I'm back, but only as a part-timer... :)
chris mev Nov 16, 2007, 08:34pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Although it is bits and bytes, their servers are uploading you those bits via their bandwidth which they pay for. Judging from the latencies I see european players with, it would take twice the bandwidth to transfer you the game. Their holding the same ratio bandwidth to dollar so you can't say its completely unfair. Granted it seems harsh to hold the ratio that may be where the price difference comes in.

As far as not releasing it on time I would agree that is a bit ridiculous. However, they are not the first to do this. I am sure the Nintendo DS was released in Japan before it was in America and the same for the Wii. The local market is given a domestic advantage I suppose. In any case I would just be patient and buy the game when it comes to stores, because as the previous commenter mentioned, this is EA's fault not Cryteks. I am not sure if that is how it works, but it is something to consider

Chris McGee Nov 16, 2007, 09:08pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
chris mev said:
Although it is bits and bytes, their servers are uploading you those bits via their bandwidth which they pay for. Judging from the latencies I see european players with, it would take twice the bandwidth to transfer you the game. Their holding the same ratio bandwidth to dollar so you can't say its completely unfair. Granted it seems harsh to hold the ratio that may be where the price difference comes in.


You would have a point if latency had anything at all to do with bandwidth. And if EA didn't have any servers in the EU. And if bandwidth was actually costly at that scale.

Unfortunately none of the above apply.

CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 16, 2007, 10:35pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Tam-the-Bam said:

FFS give Sander a break. Is it not right for someone ot openly dicuss their
views and opinions. Everyone here has had a go at him. And moderators, i suggest
this thread be completely removed to avoid any further embarrassment. For newcomers
to come into HWA and read all this doesn't help this site at all. The sooner this's all
cleared up the better. This thread is technically a flame. Do something about it now.

I have, but Sander insists on keeping the damn thing unlocked.

G. G. Nov 16, 2007, 11:12pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
oh lookie... it is unlocked.... hmmmmm

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Donmeister Nov 16, 2007, 11:39pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
G. G. said:
oh lookie... it is unlocked.... hmmmmm


That's what I'm saying? What happened? Or in the words of that "truth" campaign...WHUDAFXUP?

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 17, 2007, 12:14am EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Donmeister said:
G. G. said:
oh lookie... it is unlocked.... hmmmmm


That's what I'm saying? What happened? Or in the words of that "truth" campaign...WHUDAFXUP?

He tells me that he has not seen any illegal activity and that no one is linking to torrents themselves. So talking about the effects of software piracy is all around legal and is perfectly acceptable in the FUP.

However, I see it different because of which, that the FUP clearly states:
You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to engage in or discuss illegal activities of any nature.


And this thread is clearly that (as stated in bold). Thats my $.02.

FordGT90Concept Nov 17, 2007, 12:27am EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 17, 2007, 12:44am EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
CrAsHnBuRnXp said:
He tells me that he has not seen any illegal activity and that no one is linking to torrents themselves.

Torrents, by any extent of the law are not illegal because it's merely a link. It does not prove, in any way, they in fact did something illegal. The most they can get you for is "intent" to commit a crime. Since torrents are also used to distribute completely legitimate software, it's very hard to even push that argument.

It's kind of like an adult having a link to a child porn site. If they can't prove someone on that computer ever clicked it, they don't have much of a fight because, who knows, some crapware could have easily placed that link on the computer without the users knowledge. Again, the most they can get them with is "intent." Now, if there is child pornography already on their computer, someone is going to get nailed to the wall with darts flying at them.

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CrAsHnBuRnXp Nov 17, 2007, 12:46am EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
I never stated in any way that torrents themselves are illegal. I know they are not. Sander knows it, you know it, all of HWA knows it. That in itself isnt the issue here.

Matt BillyBob Nov 17, 2007, 01:08am EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Perhaps we need an amendment to the FUP then? What harm is there in allowing the discussion of piracy (insofar as it's effects or nature) on a forum, if the provision or direction to illegal material doesn't exist? Surely as a forum, we should be at least be amenable to the discussion of a wide range of topics (ie. piracy), so long as laws are not broken?

FordGT90Concept Nov 17, 2007, 02:32am EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 17, 2007, 03:58am EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Yes, the problems arise when things borderline copyright infringement. That hasn't happened in this thread or the article (not taking Sander's word's literally). We already discuss piracy quite frequently...there was a thread created not too long ago about an act passing which would make all P2P illegal. Those are topics worthy of discussion, as is the apparent extortion Sander focused on in his article. I too think that the FUP needs to be refined in this regard stating something down the lines of "linking to, assisting with, or distribution of (only applicable if HWA allows uploads at some point) copyrighted material is strictly forbidden." What was quoted from the FUP is extremely broad.

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angryhippy Nov 17, 2007, 03:57am EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 17, 2007, 03:59am EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
First of all discussing illegal activities would be: "Hey dude, go to such and such dot com for the best bootleg movie downloads", or "I always steal my music from yada yada dot net." Discussing activities that are illegal shouldn't be illegal (banned), because these topics are in the news every day. Whether it be movies or music or games

Next point. I can't believe the way you some of you are acting. It seemed somewhat apparent that Sander was taking the position of devils advocate, something I do as well quite often. A technique used quite frequently. Even in Corporate board rooms when brain storming ideas there is often a person who will play devils advocate to point out flaws or possible repercussions to the proposals that are being made to the board.

Devils advocate is defined as:
1. devils advocate: One who argues against a popular cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply to make people discuss and consider it in more detail. I think the issues he brought up are worth discussion sans the Animal Farm responses and regulations.

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FordGT90Concept Nov 17, 2007, 04:02am EST Report Abuse
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Edited: Nov 17, 2007, 05:19am EST

 
>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
I agree that prices for games are quite extortionate at release so I agree with Sander's article in general but, the moment I read "I am just going to download Crysis off of a P2P network," I thought "this guy is just demanding to get tackled by lawyers."

This is a moral/ethical issue which is never black and white. The reaction seen is to be expected.


Edit:
Also, the title of the thread includes a past tense verb telling me the deed is already done...
How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis

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Sander Sassen Nov 17, 2007, 07:32am EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Mark,

You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to engage in or discuss illegal activities of any nature.


The 'of any nature' part clearly signifies that you're not to discuss how to crack a game, where to get serials, cracks, etc. A discussion about the act of piracy, or on piracy in general, is perfectly acceptable provided it does not mean you post direct links to clear examples of piracy, for example a link to a Crysis torrent. Obviously there's a bit of a grey area that needs further scrutiny, but I'm sure we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Cheers,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Hans Moleman Nov 17, 2007, 04:55pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Sander Sassen said:
Mark,

You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to engage in or discuss illegal activities of any nature.


The 'of any nature' part clearly signifies that you're not to discuss how to crack a game, where to get serials, cracks, etc. A discussion about the act of piracy, or on piracy in general, is perfectly acceptable provided it does not mean you post direct links to clear examples of piracy, for example a link to a Crysis torrent. Obviously there's a bit of a grey area that needs further scrutiny, but I'm sure we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Cheers,


Software piracy is illegal. Discussing software piracy is discussing an illegal activity. On what planet do the words "of any nature" clearly signify that discussing the ILLEGAL ACT OF PIRACY is ok?

If this thread were started by a member, I would have ignored it and waited for it to be locked or deleted. Moderators have consistently deleted threads like this since they violate the rules. I think that as the owner you should hold yourself to the same standard.

Frankly, if I were a mod, I would have quit too. The fact that you not only encouraged illegal activities, but also lied in an attempt to get more attention, is unprofessional and really injures the reputation of this forum. Excuse it however you like, the facts speak for themselves.

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Sander Sassen Nov 17, 2007, 05:08pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Hans Moleman said:
Sander Sassen said:
Mark,

You will not use these forums to violate any laws nor to engage in or discuss illegal activities of any nature.


The 'of any nature' part clearly signifies that you're not to discuss how to crack a game, where to get serials, cracks, etc. A discussion about the act of piracy, or on piracy in general, is perfectly acceptable provided it does not mean you post direct links to clear examples of piracy, for example a link to a Crysis torrent. Obviously there's a bit of a grey area that needs further scrutiny, but I'm sure we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Cheers,


Software piracy is illegal. Discussing software piracy is discussing an illegal activity. On what planet do the words "of any nature" clearly signify that discussing the ILLEGAL ACT OF PIRACY is ok?

If this thread were started by a member, I would have ignored it and waited for it to be locked or deleted. Moderators have consistently deleted threads like this since they violate the rules. I think that as the owner you should hold yourself to the same standard.

Frankly, if I were a mod, I would have quit too. The fact that you not only encouraged illegal activities, but also lied in an attempt to get more attention, is unprofessional and really injures the reputation of this forum. Excuse it however you like, the facts speak for themselves.


Sigh, sometimes I get the distinct impression people are getting dumber by the minute?

It is not illegal to express your opinion about piracy, nor is it illegal to discuss piracy, heck it even isn't illegal to play the rol of the devil's advocate to provoke a discussion about piracy.

However discussing piracy does *not* include making posts that lead other members to become pirates themselves, ie. specific instructions, how-to's, links to warez, etc, etc.

Not allowing the discussion of piracy but for the manner described above, or express your opinion about the subject would be a direct violation of the fundamental right to express one's opinion and free speech.

Best regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
DarK_SlayeR Nov 17, 2007, 05:20pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Sander,

This has been a very thought provoking topic. I applaud you sir :)

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Hans Moleman Nov 17, 2007, 05:41pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: How EA games pushed me to pirate Crysis
Then perhaps you should do as others have said and rewrite your rules for this site. You can say "Discussions that describe in vivid detail how to break the law are not allowed. Discussions which say I was pushed to illegally pirate a game and that I plan to use a p2p network for that purpose are excellent and belong on the front page." Perhaps that will avoid future confusion by those of us that are getting dumber by the minute after reading your posts.

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Michel Merlin Nov 17, 2007, 06:37pm EST Report Abuse
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>> Back to topic please: the too big price differences between districts in the village
The initial question brought by Sander Sassen (discussing the facts that many games, programs, musics, videos, are twice as expensive in some regions of the world than in others) was very important and interesting; it was an opening to discuss more widely on the utterly high prices, and the general scam from the powers in place.

Sure pirating the game was bad (acting like thieves is never the efficient way to fight theft), but at least Sander Sassen admitted it, which could help the discussion.

Too bad some jumped on him too harsh on this big yet secondary point, thus (advertently or not... hard to know: hypocrisy is always well disguised) overshadowing the main one: the scam of the big gov and com organisations selling or controlling the IP of games, software, music, movies.

Even worse was that Sander Sassen, instead of admitting his fault, defended the indefensible, at the cost of adding new layers of lies, thus completely destroying the discussion, by diverting it from its initial and main subject - that he had appropriately brought himself!

Versailles, Sun 18 Nov 2007 00:38:00 +0100


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