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  Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat? 
 
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Dublin_Gunner Jan 16, 2008, 09:52am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Michel Merlin said:
DublinGunner said:
If hardware crashes in Vista, does your system go down??? Nope, well mine never has, it simply restarts the driver and restarts the explorer process, hardware failure to full use in a matter of seconds - no data loss, no pain trying to get it to reboot, no driver re-installation.

You can even update drivers directly over the previous ones without the need for a reboot (at least with catalyst)..........

...thew integration between Office 2008, Exchange Server 2008 and Vista is incredible.

Finally a tangible information about VISTA! (What a change in this discussion...) I didn't know that these long-awaited corrections had finally been made. Thanks a lot! Microsoft has been so deeply entrenched in deceptive tactics that they even fail to market the true benefits of their upgrade.

BTW, have MS corrected a few other glitches, like Task Manager unable to manage tasks (when IE6 freezes, it often freezes TM as well, etc), or Internet Explorer freezing when coming back to a Google results page? This last one being most probably an MS sabotage (MS hoping to entice people to upgrade their Windows+IE), may be corrected in VISTA+IE7 (unless MS also hoping to entice people to switch to Live Search...)?

PS. Thanks also to "Tom cruise" for his humour ("Microsoft is one of the major reasons personal computing exploded the way it did in the 90's" - sic!). It's like Popular Front politicians assuming credit for holydays in France 1936, which obviously was actually due to industry progresses.

Versailles, Tue 15 Jan 2008 23:14:35 +0100


Michel, I had the pleasure of gaining an invite to the Vista/Office 08/Echange Server 08 launch event in Dublin's Croke Park in November 2006, and what an experience that was.

The demo's they showed there (in the main presentation) were quite simply breathtaking, especially considering this was going to be a mainstream OS. As I mentioned, the synergy between Office 08, Exchange Server 08 and Vista was a pleasure to behold, and guess what? It was a live demo, in front of 1500 people, and worked flawlessly.

I'm not saying Vista is perfect (certainly was half as user friendly until relatively recently with the MS updates) but its certainly a very credible, stable, user friendly, and dare I say it 'open' OS.

The thing is, apart from Linux variants, Windows is the most open OS to develop for, and there can be no argument to that.

Oh yeah, the TM crashes with IE - eradicatewd with Vista. I did have an aweful time with IE7 at first constantly crashing when trying to download stuff, but I havent had that happen in quite sometime - and even still it merely restarted IE, not crash the desktop.

The only OS' MS will ever come under pressure from are the Linux distros, but for that to hapopen, they are going to have to be at least as user friendly as 2000/XP/Vista, as compatible with the same amount (thousands) of API's, and unfortunately for the layperson, come with a decent user guide.

This will basically mean it will have to be sold, defeating the purpose of the open source OS in the first place, but thats what would have to happen. Money makes the world go around unfortunately.

I still love OpenOffice though :)

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Michel Merlin Jan 16, 2008, 12:20pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> MS always make us hate existing version "n" and love unexisting version "n+1"
Thanks DublinGunner for your interesting report. This is appealing, but it is just as were all previous presentations of new versions of Office. The last I attended was Office 2000 and it was just as enthusiasming - yet once back home, when you think of it, the show is very effective, but is the product as much?

In 1995, Microsoft spent $300M to convey all over the planet the message that Windows 3.1x was buggy and that Windows 95 was a gem (and it was, but NOT for PnP or the other reasons said by MS marketing and journalists: it was because it came with modern 32-bit virtual drivers for 95% of the hardware then available, and the according reliability increase);

Once W95 well sold, MS slipped in it enough flaws to make people hate it, then spent again a few $M to tout W98 (Then there was W98SE, that was less hype and more real improvement: no more bells and whistle, just [i]work[i] to make it [i]work[i]);

Then NT5 was given a huge improvement (drivers included for 95% of the market instead of 75% in NT4) and renamed W2K (the best MS OS ever), launched same way: teaching people to hate and blame W98SE and over-praise W2K even above what it really deserved;

Then MS taught us to hate W2K and love XP (that brought little over W2K);

Now that MS can't bring much new, they are slipping more and more glitches into W2K and XP (Microsoft "Update" being a great tool for this - not to mention WMP11, IE7, ...), so to better tout VISTA;

As soon as the market has bought a billion VISTA licenses, MS will slip flaws in it and tout the next OS.

Now MS has lied so much than it can say whatever they like, nothing from them will be trusted any more.

Now I know that eventually I will be forced as everyone to shell the $$$ for VISTA, at least am I warned that, in addition to the loads of useless "features", I will get back most of the functionalities that were working in W2K (and still are so far on my old desktop - while chilling in fear at each Microsoft "Update"...).

Versailles, Wed 16 Jan 2008 18:20:30 +0100

Dustin Horne Jan 16, 2008, 12:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Michel Merlin said:
Thanks DublinGunner for your interesting report. This is appealing, but it is just as were all previous presentations of new versions of Office. The last I attended was Office 2000 and it was just as enthusiasming - yet once back home, when you think of it, the show is very effective, but is the product as much?

In 1995, Microsoft spent $300M to convey all over the planet the message that Windows 3.1x was buggy and that Windows 95 was a gem (and it was, but NOT for PnP or the other reasons said by MS marketing and journalists: it was because it came with modern 32-bit virtual drivers for 95% of the hardware then available, and the according reliability increase);

Once W95 well sold, MS slipped in it enough flaws to make people hate it, then spent again a few $M to tout W98 (Then there was W98SE, that was less hype and more real improvement: no more bells and whistle, just [i]work[i] to make it [i]work[i]);

Then NT5 was given a huge improvement (drivers included for 95% of the market instead of 75% in NT4) and renamed W2K (the best MS OS ever), launched same way: teaching people to hate and blame W98SE and over-praise W2K even above what it really deserved;

Then MS taught us to hate W2K and love XP (that brought little over W2K);

Now that MS can't bring much new, they are slipping more and more glitches into W2K and XP (Microsoft "Update" being a great tool for this - not to mention WMP11, IE7, ...), so to better tout VISTA;

As soon as the market has bought a billion VISTA licenses, MS will slip flaws in it and tout the next OS.

Now MS has lied so much than it can say whatever they like, nothing from them will be trusted any more.

Now I know that eventually I will be forced as everyone to shell the $$$ for VISTA, at least am I warned that, in addition to the loads of useless "features", I will get back most of the functionalities that were working in W2K (and still are so far on my old desktop - while chilling in fear at each Microsoft "Update"...).

Versailles, Wed 16 Jan 2008 18:20:30 +0100


Just curious Michael...when was Microsoft prosecuted for the business practices of "slipping in glitches"? Ohh...they weren't. Do you have tangible evidence that this was ever done intentionally or are you stating opinion and speculation as fact? These types of comments are what feed the hatemongers. This is no different than all the loony conspiracy theorists that think the government is spying on everyone, etc. etc. Why would MS intentionally break an old OS? Direct-to-End-User isn't their big market. Companies like Dell, Gateway, etc. are the ones shelling out most of the pcs to the hoards. These companies are going to offer the new OS, so what possible reason would they have for breaking the old when they're guaranteed sales of the new?

Eventually, the old OS's will reach End of Life and no longer be supported, such as the computer world. One of my first DSL routers was a Cisco 678 which reached EOL about a month after it was provided to me by my ISP...it's to be expected. Is Ford still manufacturing new parts for the Model-A? Should we complain about how it's no longer supported when it may have been a great vehicle in its time?

The technology world changes...quickly...daily...hourly. Either you adapt, or you die out. Yes, this means new OS's to meet the needs of new technology with the possibility that old OS's may not do the same. There are options. If you don't like it...you don't have to use it. If you don't want to update it...you don't have to. And be careful making blanket accusations in an open forum if you don't have tangible facts to back them up. Just because an upate breaks something doesn't mean it was intentional or that there was any kind of alterior motive.

Dustin Horne Jan 16, 2008, 12:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Michel Merlin said:
Thanks DublinGunner for your interesting report. This is appealing, but it is just as were all previous presentations of new versions of Office. The last I attended was Office 2000 and it was just as enthusiasming - yet once back home, when you think of it, the show is very effective, but is the product as much?

In 1995, Microsoft spent $300M to convey all over the planet the message that Windows 3.1x was buggy and that Windows 95 was a gem (and it was, but NOT for PnP or the other reasons said by MS marketing and journalists: it was because it came with modern 32-bit virtual drivers for 95% of the hardware then available, and the according reliability increase);

Once W95 well sold, MS slipped in it enough flaws to make people hate it, then spent again a few $M to tout W98 (Then there was W98SE, that was less hype and more real improvement: no more bells and whistle, just [i]work[i] to make it [i]work[i]);

Then NT5 was given a huge improvement (drivers included for 95% of the market instead of 75% in NT4) and renamed W2K (the best MS OS ever), launched same way: teaching people to hate and blame W98SE and over-praise W2K even above what it really deserved;

Then MS taught us to hate W2K and love XP (that brought little over W2K);

Now that MS can't bring much new, they are slipping more and more glitches into W2K and XP (Microsoft "Update" being a great tool for this - not to mention WMP11, IE7, ...), so to better tout VISTA;

As soon as the market has bought a billion VISTA licenses, MS will slip flaws in it and tout the next OS.

Now MS has lied so much than it can say whatever they like, nothing from them will be trusted any more.

Now I know that eventually I will be forced as everyone to shell the $$$ for VISTA, at least am I warned that, in addition to the loads of useless "features", I will get back most of the functionalities that were working in W2K (and still are so far on my old desktop - while chilling in fear at each Microsoft "Update"...).

Versailles, Wed 16 Jan 2008 18:20:30 +0100


Just curious Michael...when was Microsoft prosecuted for the business practices of "slipping in glitches"? Ohh...they weren't. Do you have tangible evidence that this was ever done intentionally or are you stating opinion and speculation as fact? These types of comments are what feed the hatemongers. This is no different than all the loony conspiracy theorists that think the government is spying on everyone, etc. etc. Why would MS intentionally break an old OS? Direct-to-End-User isn't their big market. Companies like Dell, Gateway, etc. are the ones shelling out most of the pcs to the hoards. These companies are going to offer the new OS, so what possible reason would they have for breaking the old when they're guaranteed sales of the new?

Eventually, the old OS's will reach End of Life and no longer be supported, such as the computer world. One of my first DSL routers was a Cisco 678 which reached EOL about a month after it was provided to me by my ISP...it's to be expected. Is Ford still manufacturing new parts for the Model-A? Should we complain about how it's no longer supported when it may have been a great vehicle in its time?

The technology world changes...quickly...daily...hourly. Either you adapt, or you die out. Yes, this means new OS's to meet the needs of new technology with the possibility that old OS's may not do the same. There are options. If you don't like it...you don't have to use it. If you don't want to update it...you don't have to. And be careful making blanket accusations in an open forum if you don't have tangible facts to back them up. Just because an upate breaks something doesn't mean it was intentional or that there was any kind of alterior motive.

Dustin Horne Jan 16, 2008, 12:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Sorry for the double post...got a "Page could not be displayed" the first attempt.

Michel Merlin Jan 16, 2008, 01:07pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Example, WMP and its preferred DB
Dustin Horne, quoting is outlining a phrase among others. Entirely copying a long post outlines nothing, hence has no effect other than to dilute the post or make it look bad (or ridicule it). Miswriting someone's name also has no effect other than (possibly) to hurt. So in case you lack real arguments, it's better to refrain from posting than to using such ones. I guess I would be lynched if I resorted to such ways.

For Microsoft intentionally crippling its old products, the main reason I have to think so is when I see blatant errors enforced and maintained over the years despite users' requests, at a point that no amount of stupidity can explain. Last example, see how Microsoft destroyed the library info in WMP and its preferred DB: when I buy a new CD, instead of being awkwardly and unreliably recognized, from ~10 Oct 2007 it is now not recognized at all. This can't be explained without resorting, at best to intentionally crippling for commercial reasons - at worse I can't tell it (or it would draw even more fire). This is just an example, I am sure most people have plenty others - but it's little useful to try to list them as long as the same is not requested from the ones praising MS or bashing Apple or Linux.

Versailles, Wed 16 Jan 2008 19:07:15 +0100

Dustin Horne Jan 16, 2008, 02:16pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Michel -

My apologies for mispelling your name. It was unintentional.

A_Pickle Jan 16, 2008, 05:05pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Michel Merlin
The quoted phrase, while mentioning no source, is the 2nd one of the last paragraph of Sander Sassen's article. Otherwise I found no previous occurrence of "innovator" in this thread.


Michel Merlin
Found no previous occurrence of "borrow" in article or thread.


Michel Merlin
The quoted phrase is the last one of the last paragraph of Sander Sassen's article.


Thank you. I'm not looking for someone to review my damn forum post, and criticize it for not having been written in MLA. If I want to format my online forum post in MLA format, I will do so. If someone is so blithely incapable of understanding where my loose quotes in my post came from, they should try reading the article. You seemed perfectly capable of finding them.

Michel Merlin
unfortunately the rest of this lengthy post is little substantial; and the whole suffers, in credibility, from being drowned in too many futile other features, from a bad lack of references or proofs, and from this aggressive tone.


Again... I'm not asking for anyone to review my effing post. You could be easily criticized for not providing evidence to support your claim that my post contains a "bad lack of references or proofs." However, you have asked, and I'll deliver.

Longhorn search at PDC 2003: (my mistake)
http://www.windowsitpro.com/windowspaulthurrott/Article/Articl...46080.html

Leopard introduces Boolean search operands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotlight_(software)

Windows Desktop Search has Boolean operands:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Desktop_Search#Windows_Desktop_Search

Windows Server 2003 Volume Shadow Copy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Shadow_Copy

Michel Merlin
In conclusion, the whole article and thread are so full of gossiping and empty of facts or references, hence objectively so biased in favor of Microsoft (the article being the bait, and the thread the switch), that I feel (right or wrong) about the only to not be a Microsoft shill here.


I'm sorry, you seem to be gossiping (without substantive fact, proof, or reference) that those of us allegedly quote, "so biased in favor of Microsoft" are Microsoft shills. Please check your sources, and try again. Or try posting something marginally useful.

Michel Merlin
So we regular people are left alone being weighted and moderate, acknowledging at the same time the good and the bad in Microsoft.


I'm sorry, I don't particularly care for subjective, elitist, self-glorifying posts, particularly when I myself have criticized Microsoft on many occasions. They were playing catch-up with Vista, Apple was playing catch-up with XP. Credit's due where credit's due, and this article is anything but "weighted and moderate, achnowledging at the same time the good and the bad in Microsoft." It was a glaringly scathing rant at Microsoft with, as you put it, a "bad lack of references or proofs" that did not begin to fit the journalistic effort of being "objective."

End.

Michel Merlin Jan 16, 2008, 05:16pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Thx for the links provided
Thanks A_Pickle for the links you provided. I will read them (no time now).

Otherwise I find normal that you question and discuss me and I am sorry that you are upset at my questioning and discussing you. I thought a forum (or discussion board) was meant to discussions. I know however that in 2008 discussions are in facts oriented, allowed in one direction and forbidden in the opposite (e.g. really criticizing Microsoft is actually forbidden), I apologize for having momentarily forgotten it.

Versailles, Wed 16 Jan 2008 23:16:55 +0100

Dustin Horne Jan 16, 2008, 05:40pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Criticizing Microsoft isn't forbidden by any means. Those knuckleheads have done plenty to be criticized for, but they should be backed factually and not with assumptions drawn from scattered experiences (i.e. assuming that since something is broken, or was for an extended period that it was intentional). The fact of the matter is, they have specific priorities. Fixing CD recognition in WMP may not be high on that list in comparison with other items. That doesn't mean their priorities are correct, it just means they're different.

In fact, Microsoft in the past has held too tightly onto their proprietary nature. To get back on the topic of "innovation" I do applaud them for some of their current projects. Silverlight seems very promising so far, allowing easy separation of developer and designer (something not as easily accomplished with Flash) and is positioned to be a pretty big powerhouse in "pretty" pages with a workhorse in the backend. Also, if you're not familiar with XNA, this is a really exciting project. Since the XBox360 runs on a modified version of the .NET Compact Framework, they have started opening things up to allow anyone to develop games. In fact, they offer a subscription service that allows you to publish your games online. You can use XNA studio (VB or C# for PC, but C# only for XBox) to write games for the PC or for the XBox 360. You can easily integrate with Studio Max, Blender, Maya, or XSI. I think this is pretty innovative.

Now...I too have a couple complaints. It has taken MS until Windows Vista to finally get a Hibernate feature to function (and resume!) properly. Microsoft also likes to announce lots of great new features (like WinFS) that never come to truition. You also see this alot with the .NET framework pre-releases. They'll have controls and functionality that don't end up getting rolled out in the final release (or even at all in some cases). Although it's been fixed, the Excel multiplicaiton bug (http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/24/2339203&from=rss) was a huge boo-boo on MS's part. And quite frankly, UAC is the one feature I despise in Vista (oh..and migrating profiles on a domain between XP and Vista isn't a smooth process either).

But...on the same token, I don't expect anyone to be perfect. Different things appeal to different people. If I was strictly a graphic artist, you'd probably see me using a Mac. Although I do some graphic / 3D work, I also do a lot of networking and development and I don't feel it provides me the necessary tools. I will criticize Mac for the PC attacking ads. I see those and I feel the same way I feel about politicians that go on the attack against other politicians...but as far as a software package, I won't criticize it...it has it's place.

You also won't see me screaming for the OS to go open source. Open source has it's place and I'm glad we have it. It helps create competition and keep prices down from what they really could be, but I don't want everyone knowing exactly how my PC ticks. That would open it up to more vulnerabilities.

Besides...closed source = more money, and that's what capitalism is about. I also enjoy being able to get support. Linux = free, until you need to add a support package to a distro. And I'm also deathly afraid that letting anyone who wanted to tinker away at Windows to do so could yield some nasty results. I don't mind KDE or GNOME for their purposes, but for my every day needs, their not the most aestetically pleasing desktop alternatives out there. In fact, nearly every Linux GUI I've seen has been pretty ugly. That doesn't mean it's not functional, I just prefer a little more soothing approach.

There are goods and bads to every solution. None are perfect, and you just need to choose the one that's right for you. There's nothing wrong with touting the one you like and nothing wrong with pointing out what you don't like about the other; just don't make accusations without factual basis.


Jonathan Huffaker Jan 22, 2008, 09:44pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Pardon, but there were definitely a few things that were stated as truths, that I believe to be more opinion. Yet, I guess that could be just MY opinion. So, since all are giving their view of the situation with MS, I'll pitch in.
It seems that Microsoft is expected to cover all the bases since they are probably the largest computer software company, and have been for more than a decade. Is that fair? Yes and no. The company itself is bloated much like their new operating system. Though if you only use top of the line equipment and software, you might not notice this. This happens with EVERY large company, that they hire people they know to fill possitions that don't have as many demands on it as it did when the business was still relatively new. Even with new innovations coming out, they have to get dozens of "go aheads" to keep it from being archived(buried), then have to work out all the 1000's of compatibility issues that come up. This has happened with EVERY operating system that has ever been produced. Yet, we continue to be surprised or upset when it happens. The only thing that bothers me, is that both the individual program companies and the OS developers are less inclined to make sure it's completely compatible anymore BEFORE they get it out on the market. And everyone wants to utilize the market's NEWEST hardware to it's max to show how cool the program is, yet all it does is make it incompatible with last year's model of computer, or if not incompatible, then at the very least difficult to use, and most of the new functions would bog down the older systems.. I know of at least one system it crashed completely because the system was just too old, being 5yrs old, and all she did was put the disk in. Personally, I'd love it if the OS, checked the system it was going on and loaded to suite the system. Yet, instead of compatibility, they are more worried about piracy and security, which are legit concerns for them, but with the economy the way it is I'm guessing most of the "pirates" aren't "pirating" for profit but so they can have something they couldn't afford otherwise. Which means, it's only the jerks who try to make money off it that are actually costing the company money.
Yet, now why is it the pirates that I have to look to to find an update for windows 95 or 98, or games that have gone out of circulation? Because everyone wants you to buy the new stuff..Longevity means nothing in our society anymore. I have a computer from every(5yr) generation but the most recent dual & quad core systems. But it takes a dual or quad core to run vista properly to it's fullest extent. Personally, I think they should do like the one OS was doing, and sell only what people need. Meaning, sell a stripped down version that has all the drivers you might need to set up your system, including legacy drivers, making it compatible with older systems. Then, have a networking package, student package, teacher package, small business package, corporate package, Entertainment package, Gaming package, and Internet/security package. You might think they are doing this already, but they aren't, I'm talking about an add-on, not an OS. And the price should match the income market, not property values. Like a new OS shouldn't have doubled price in less than a decade while the people's wages that they are selling to have only gone up 5-10%. But Microsoft has always been a bit pricey. And EVERY business seems to be trying the same tactic of upping their prices so they can LATER pay their employees more, so how can we complain about one greedy jerk without complaining about them all.
I would have to agree though, whether Vista is a good OS or not, it's the perception that matters, and many people heard of the initial problems that people had loading it and running programs, and they didn't like it, while others had no problem with it. I just don't appreciate more programs running in the background that you don't even know what the heck they are doing. With out real innovations though, I would think they won't last more than another couple decades, max. Coasting is a dangerous thing.

ian elliott Jan 25, 2008, 12:23pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Soul1601 said:
just to add to this whole XP > Vista thing, I'm building a PC for a client now, an they opted to have hardware able to run vista, but insisted XP be on the system. As they have heard so many complaints from co-workers/friends that they don't want it. It's bad when the "average joe" who normally wants the "Latest and greatest" has been steered away from Vista. They (MS) are going to have some work a head of them turning that around.

My father who was has Vista on his lastest machine, wants his next build (quad core system) to go back to Window XP. He is an experienced user (over 20 year of PC use). He has used Vista for a long time (year and half) and wants to go back to XP. He's never gone back before to an older O.S. That's got to tell you something.

Dustin Horne Jan 25, 2008, 03:35pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
I have mixed feelings as well. Your father may want to go back to XP. I personally like Vista...but to be honest, I want to go back to Office 2003 (since upgrading ot 2007). But, the real reason is...I hate the ribbon bar, I have to learn some things all over again. Honestly, it may be better, it may be easier for new users. It's harder for me BECAUSE I have the years of experience using the old style. But...I accept change...and I'll adapt...and a few years from now, I won't know hte difference.

ian elliott Jan 26, 2008, 03:47pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 26, 2008, 03:51pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
To be fair one and half years is a long time and he knows how to use Vista but doesn't like it, he hates having to apply all the tweaks to get stuff to run. People say it was like XP it wasn't. Within six months we all had XP in my family. ME was so bad. After a year and a half of using XP you didn't want to go back at all. I hope the next OS is better. I may skip Vista altogether myself. I haven't used it at all. XP does everything I want.

Dublin_Gunner Jan 28, 2008, 11:21am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
ian elliott said:
To be fair one and half years is a long time and he knows how to use Vista but doesn't like it, he hates having to apply all the tweaks to get stuff to run. People say it was like XP it wasn't. Within six months we all had XP in my family. ME was so bad. After a year and a half of using XP you didn't want to go back at all. I hope the next OS is better. I may skip Vista altogether myself. I haven't used it at all. XP does everything I want.


He obviously doesnt like fit for his own reasons, whatever they may be.

I initially didnt like some of the early beta builds, but as later & later builds came out, it really began to grow on me. I now use Vista full time, even though I have XP Pro x64 on another partition, I never boot into it, and IMO that was my favourite OS ever (as its built of Server 2003), so that must surely say something too, no?

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Rory Witham Jan 28, 2008, 12:54pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Sanders has made a good point with his post, a few year late TBH when you take a look back into the 80's there were 3 main computer systems and OS type; IBM, Apple Macintosh, and Windows.

IBM systems were generally heading for business and programmers ( which is where the ZX specturm came in) but this type of OS went as more people wanted home computers. The birth of Home computers came in the form of the ZX and the commador systems but these seamed to head for teh consols that we have now, with only Windows and Mac's keeping the business sector and home entertainment.

as people purchased their computers there was a distinked choice, Apple and Windows, bearing in mind that both companies had about the same amount of software titles.

Windows really made a head way by getting more software handed to it, this may have been due to coding for the OS.

Mac have kept a simaler OS GUI over the years and then its comes down to the sale price of the computers, Windows cheap; Mac's exspensive. if the roles were reverced we would have seen Mac's taking a lead. If memory serves me correct, it was in 1991 that this divide was formed.

Windows had a simple OS for most users with the Windwos 3.* OS's and developed these for the better GUI - Windows 98. windows then had Windows ME and shortly after Windows 2000 which was based on the NT 4 OS that was developed for business users and networking. MS dragged the OS's together to make a stable OS for all users which was to become Windows XP due to the fact that the hoe users OS were unstable and they could fix it.
So from Windows 98 to XP was back peddling to get a OS that actually worked and worked well.

AS you can see there was no deleopment from MS in quite a few years as the R&D was spent fixing what they had.
When the internet took off we saw the brith of Linux which was based on the UNIX systems, this system was quite close to the old Mac code base.

We are left with three choices, Mac, Windows of Linux.
Two charge for the service and linux dosent.

As Sanders pointed out many companies have there fingers in the pies and are spreading. IT has move more to the online that to the purchasing of software, yahoo's mail ( may be in beta) is one example then you have office live from MS.

Google has come up with a few good bits of software that makes working with things that much easier.

When vista came out the first thing I noticed was that it was robbed from a range of tools and software from the internet. So as said MS is playing catch up.
There are very few computers on teh market selling with Linux and people who have tried linux in the past may be a little wary about buying a linux system, in patituclar the software that they would like to use or have used for some time may not work, there is windows emulator...

With out software that people have become to know use and trust windows will have some hold on the market. So MS are in a balance between the software designers and there OS, in reacent years people are fed up with using a windows OS and the problems that comes with it. if software stopped being windows based, I think that we could say the curtain would surely fall on Windows.

Not forgetting the GUI is only a small part of the operating system so looking and what the systems actuially do are two different things; Im sure many would agree, windows, Linux, and Mac's is just a pretty from for a DOS based system. (ok its a little more)

If all companies went back to the drawing board and did not rely on software programes, We would proberly see a whole new OS that would be considerably better.

We could has Voice activated computers, and body map mouse systems, but in time and cost cutting they all seam to pull bits from there old OS's for the systems and this is holding everyone back...

The question really should be, who is going to take the first step? a computer software/ programe designer is not going to make a OS just so that teh game can play or the hardware will work correctly. (stalemate)


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Dustin Horne Jan 28, 2008, 04:29pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Windows had a simple OS for most users with the Windwos 3.* OS's and developed these for the better GUI - Windows 98


What happend to Windows 95? :P

Lawrence O. Wilson Jan 28, 2008, 06:33pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Hello, did I miss the boat somewhere along the line? I was under the impression that Hardware analysis was for getting support to resolve computer issues not a gossip column for everyone’s pet peeve. Some of the statements that have been written here, about Microsoft, could easily get someone before a court for liable.

Being that there are hundreds of millions of us on this earth, all with different looks, features, likes and dislikes, no two of us being exactly alike and each and every one of us with different opinions/ideas, there will always be both ends of the spectrum as far as any issue is concerned. For one million persons, you have one million different opinions!

As far as XP, VISTA, 2000, or NT 4.0, we are talking about a million lines or more of code. In my tiny life time, I know of nothing that man has made that functioned perfectly and last a humans life time without modifications or repairs and it still went to pot. Too, complaints about running support programs? Do any of you have an appreciation for the additional programing that gets called into play just so that you can go on line, that the OS has to support? DSN Name resolution, all the different network protocols, not to mention OSPF, EIRGP, RIPv1/or 2 TCP/IP with ongoing changes being made constantly. Has any of MS OS given you a message that TCP/IP Failed? Or that it cannot handle OSPF or EITGP? Too, you would really have issues if you had to know what sub program you need to start or stop relative to what you are doing. Actually, if you are qualified to judge what should run or not run, why arn't you working for MS or writing your own OS?

Actually, OS does a pretty good job, to run at all, considering that from the start the Motherboard has issues, they require BIOS up grades, for what reasons? Graphic cards, hardware drivers, all require up grades, for what reasons! None of the crap is functioning as it should be, from the start! Many so called power supplies belong in the trash can. Still, the OS stumbles along and manages to function even when the masses fail to make the needed driver upgrade that will hopefully fix serious issues or snatches the power cord out of the socket before the system completes shutdown. I will not even go into thoes reulting issues.

If you cannot write the code to fix or better what you are fussing about, nor have a clue to what the development entails then just SHUT UP until you bother to unlearn something!

No, MS does not have to maintain OS support for any OS, any longer than MS chooses to. Are you going to pay the personnel/infrastructure costs?

I wonder how many of you jumped on any car maker when a part/parts failed and peopled died or lost parts of their body? Has some one died because VISTA/XP didn’t function exactly as they thought it should function?

If all is so bad, why not go back to pencil and paper, the material cost is a lot cheaper and all the errors will be only of your own doing! Too, you will not have worry about Spy Ware, viruses, your papers being hacked or someone sneaking into your living room to see what you are writing!

Nobody has to buy VISTA! No one has had their life threatened if they do not buy it. VISTA IS MICROSOFTS NEW OPERATING SYSTEM! If you have an issue with the way something is done or functions, then you should have a very realistic, workable solution to resolve the issue otherwise you are just bitching, and are actually a hindrance to productivity. In the real world, on the job, you can get fired for that or at the lest, get on the very bad side of your supervisor/boss.

No one that currently has a functioning computer has to buy VISTA! Too, there are very few reasons to change/buy a new operating system: What you want to do, your current system will not do it and the new OS will, and YOU want that capability. You require support but the system is no longer supported. Organization/job requires you to utilize the same OS. And the last reason is: YOU WANT THAT Software! If you do not fall into either of those categories, why buy any new software?

Jonathan Huffaker Jan 29, 2008, 07:31pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Heck, I agree, it was Win95 that really started the ball rolling big time, that and it's collaboration with AOL,Spyglass(who they snaked out of paying properly for Internet Explorer), and various other internet services.
98 was mainly a fix to the problems with 95 and with more multimedia support drivers.
Even till around 2004 I'd say 98se was the most stable game platform for the widest range of games in the pc field. Not perfect, but still...
BillGates really new how to get something for nothing and work his assets. I think at one point he must have been schoolling to be a lawyer, because he thinks like one or the people he listens to do. And the whole 2000 break up thing was probably because he p**sed off too many power players. But I'll grant him one thing, he took his hit and kept going.


Scumbag Blues Jan 30, 2008, 09:50pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Jan 30, 2008, 10:17pm EST

 
>> Re: Re: Will Microsoft keep missing the boat?
Windows 95 was an important operating system in terms of success for Microsoft as TCP/IP was at that time growing very quickly. Bill Gates had the foresight to know the value of it and delayed the OS so that it could be included. It was released ahead of Apple's OS also integrating TCP/IP and as a result, was far more successful. Although it isn't a break or make type situation, the situation of market share today for Microsoft and Apple might be different had Bill Gates not taken the extra time to include TCP/IP.

Edit: Spelling, grammar and structure.

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