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  Re: Global warming, fact or farce? 
 
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John Ingram Mar 26, 2008, 02:57pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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I believe it is a fact. Something that started 300 years ago, that would have taken 1,000 years, because of industrialization, is now happening in 4-500. this means in as little as 100 years we will have reached what would have happened 500 years later. I.e Slower.

With the icebergs in the North Pole melting at twice the rate predicted 10 years ago, it is easy to see that something is happening and at a faster rate.

So yes, without humans, something would have happened, but it would have taken much longer, so I don't believe man caused climate change, just helped speed it up.

I also want everyone - the whole planet, to talk about 'climate change' not 'global warning', because it the change will make some places warmer and others cooler.

For example, here in the UK, if we lose the Gulf Stream, due to cooling of the Atalantic, we will get much colder with winters like Canada and yet cooler wetter summers than Canada..


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Ransom Simmons Mar 26, 2008, 05:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
I am writing in reply to the individual who was concerned about the Gulf Stream no longer affecting the climate in England and Europe. This is an oft stated illusion of data that is being deliberately misinterpreted for ?political/social reasons. The fact is that global warming/climate change will have little or no effect for two reasons. First, the main concern is the melting of the polar and greenland ice caps. This will take centuries if it occurs at all and the effect will be moderated by time. Second, the temperature of the Gulf Stream itself will rise as the water in the tropics is also affected by the change in climate worldwide and thus will be hotter and this will offset any effect of additional cold water infusions.

John Ingram Mar 26, 2008, 06:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 26, 2008, 06:27pm EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
In reply to Ransom - it is all very complicated, but if cold fresh water from the iceberg meltage is faster than the climate increase in the Gulf of Mexico, then the Gulf Stream could be diverted to the south enough to affect the UK and Northwester Europe, but without affecting the bulk of the European continent, which will continue to hot up.

Sketchy scary propositions also point out a drying and heating of the 'grain bowl; of America and the moderating of temperature in Syberia allowing for the ground to unfreeze and give excellent groundage for crop growing. Who fancies America having to import grain from Russia to survive?!


Akilles Mar 27, 2008, 12:47am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Oil as abiotic substance
"The theory of abiogenic petroleum origin holds that natural petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth.

The ubiquity of hydrocarbons in the solar system is taken as evidence that there may be a great deal more petroleum on Earth than commonly thought, and that petroleum may originate from carbon-bearing fluids which migrate upward from the mantle."
now this is from wikipedia, but you can find a lot more information on this.

We also shouldn't forget that man has manipulated the weather for atleast the last 3 decades, since America was experimenting with cloud seeding over Vietnam.

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James Stouffer Mar 27, 2008, 04:03am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Cloud seeding is a localized procedure, more often unsuccessful than not, and certainly is not ever going to have any significant, global or long-term effect on world climate. Whether there is or is not more oil in the earth than we think or presently know about will, at best, affect how long we remain dependent on fossil fuels for our primary energy source. Economics, not global warming or increases in greenhouse gasses, will drive us to alternative energy and conservation on a significant scale.

The earth has gone through global climate changes on a massive scale long before man arrived in significant numbers and certainly long before industrialization (last ice age 25,000 years ago and its subsequent demise, anyone?). Now, I'm all for reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, conservation of resources, and funding for alternative energy, but I take that stand more as an advocate of good stewardship of our environment than being a reactionary to those who take "the sky is falling and it's our fault" approach.

The challenge to mankind will be how to prepare for and adapt to the climate changes (or any change, for that matter).

Russ Keller Mar 27, 2008, 04:27pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
I love this topic it's fun to laugh at. I happen to think pollution is almost criminal but I'm not about to trust the science the local weatherman relies on. Once again he promised rain last weekend... nothing. I don't understand why these guys insist on saying they know what they're talking about. I'd rather put my faith in an Indian rain dance to their "science."

Akilles Mar 28, 2008, 02:14pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
James Stouffer said:
Cloud seeding is a localized procedure, more often unsuccessful than not, and certainly is not ever going to have any significant, global or long-term effect on world climate. Whether there is or is not more oil in the earth than we think or presently know about will, at best, affect how long we remain dependent on fossil fuels for our primary energy source.


Thanks for that common knowledge about cloud seeding. My point with that statement was "That was 30 years ago". Meaning, they didn't admit to the cloudseeding then, why would they admit to anything now. I think if they said, "Yeah, we can divert hurricanes using ourmost advanced technology" people would be upset, not upbeat!

Oil might not even BE a fossil fuel, that is the significance with the abiotic theory. Oil might 'replenish' itself. Now obviously it can't come from nowhere, but it might be 1000x more abundant than we think, which would mean we should still use it appriopriately, but that its price is way out of line.

Now, we can keep gas prices the same, but obviously oil and gas companies should get a much smaller %, maybe 25% of what they make right now, the rest would effectively be "tax", and could be spent on alternative energy research grants and so on. Oil and gas companies are way too powerful right now...

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Aaron Johnson Mar 30, 2008, 09:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 30, 2008, 09:58am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
John Ingram is a idiot...the only thing carbon is hurting is your brain cells.

most of the warming happened during 1900 - 1945 then cooled for 30 years then started warming from 1975 - 1998 & ever since 1998 the world has been cooling down again.
Most people fail to know is we were in a mini ice age for 500 years & just came out of it at the beginning of the 20th century so of course some ice is going to melt.

I find it really hard to believe that the world is getting hotter when here in Australia this is our second coldest year in a row.

John Ingram Mar 30, 2008, 10:48am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 30, 2008, 10:49am EDT

 
>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Aaron Johnson - you're the idiot for thinking all the weather changes that are correct are where it gets warmer! That's why, if you notice, I said we should all call it climate change, not global warming, because all the idiots like you say is 'it's not getting warmer here!'

Part of Climate Change is the melting of the icebergs sure, and the warming of the midwest USA, buts it also about a potential colder Northwestern Europe if the Gulf Stream moves to the south due to the cold fresh water coming from those melting icebergs!

In fact, everybody who uses 'global warming' rather than 'climate change' may just be like you - wanting to keep the term so they can debunk it by talking about one cold winter!!!

Rory Witham Mar 30, 2008, 07:57pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Re: Global warming, fact or farce?
Global warming was always a bit of a joke to get taxes, and do what thyey wanted for the fear factor.. the problem was that when they drempt up this scam, they though that the temps of the planet would rise, fo years that talk that the temp is going to be 4 oc or more hotter than not bla bla thats ten years ago..

Global worming was CFC and NOT CO2 which is the current flavour, this dont float either as I have looked at the data and its NOT concureent with the BS that is spread.

So they went for climant change, they were right.. but decided that they couldnt tax us for that.. so they made up stuff..

If they were around befor ehte last ice age, they would have taxed us for global cooling and climate change.. but sdaly were on teh end of the climant change (ice age) and then are getting warmer after being colder, AJA return back to how things were, If you look at geoligy and how the earth was a few million years ago, then you will see that the earth has done this for billions of years.. so Im just wondering that as they cant tax air that we breath we pay tax for the earth that we live on..

Anyway, if were paying money (tax) for this change that were causing.. where the hell is that gobal cooling climate changing machine that we must be paying for???? What dont tell me that they are taking money for the sake of it in the name of a cause thats not realy.. surely thats fraud?

Climate changes, we had a polar change about 7 years ago, and so did the claimant.. well it didnt change, its just kept on doing the things that it always has done..

If your so believe in it.. then make the planet hotter but 10 degrees for a week and then turn it back down 20 degrees.. you tax us on what you say is the cause so obiously you can do it with all that knowlesge and mosny that we pay... Oh they cant.. thats a surprise!!


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