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  XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues 
 
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FordGT90Concept May 18, 2008, 11:19pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Basically, I coded an application well over a year ago and have been tweaking it ever since. It worked flawlessly on XP x64 but, in the transition to Server 2003 x64 Edition, two original issues have popped up:
1) Events are being eliminated that shouldn't be (e.g. the trigger time has been missed).
2) The sounds the application produce are extremely quiet relative to, say, Windows Media Player.

I think I can fix point 2 with little trouble but point 1, I just don't know. I log in as administrator and the application is automatically started via HKLM. Of course, Server pops up that login screen if left unattended. My concern is that, during that "reenter credentials" period, are the applications in the background being altered? Like CPU priority or anything of that sort?

I'm clearly doing something wrong but don't know where to start. I really would not want to make the server require login after x number of minutes but if that's what it takes, so be it. As such, where might I find the policy to change that login timeout?


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Gerritt May 19, 2008, 12:06am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I'm not a coding guru, but I'm assuming that you are starting this application as a service, using a local machine account?
If not, when the server console auto-logs off, then all applications are suspended, as opposed to going to screen saver, which leaves the application running in the background.
In order to get around this, you'll have to kick off your process as a service, which may require a small recode.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
FordGT90Concept May 19, 2008, 12:12am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Gerritt said:
I'm not a coding guru, but I'm assuming that you are starting this application as a service, using a local machine account?

It is a Windows Application running on the Administrator account.


Gerritt said:
If not, when the server console auto-logs off, then all applications are suspended, as opposed to going to screen saver, which leaves the application running in the background.

That sounds like what it is doing (when I login, the trigger time has passed and therefore removed). So to fix it, I'll have to make/install it as a service?

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Gerritt May 19, 2008, 12:23am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: May 19, 2008, 12:26am EDT

 
>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I'm pretty sure that's what you'll need to do, but that shouldn't require a total rework.
You should be able to find the includes and wrappers necessary in order to accomplish this quickly.
[editted to add]Dang I'm clicking through this stuff too quickly, but yes, install as a service using a machine account, not a UID/PWD started process and you should be good to go.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
FordGT90Concept May 19, 2008, 12:54am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: May 19, 2008, 12:55am EDT

 
>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I've made a service before but it was a console app with no user interaction (console not even displayed). I hope .NET can make a window-accessible service.

Edit: That console service app was also running on XP--haven't tried it on Server 2003.

Any ideas on the sound issue? WMP and my app played sounds at the same volume on XP but they aren't in Server. Is there a setting somewhere I'm missing that would effect that? I briefly checked Volume Control and didn't catch anything. It just seems very odd.

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BoT May 19, 2008, 01:38am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
so if i am comprehanding this right. when you log in as an administrator and the machine goes idle, the account get eventually logged out automatically?
this should not happen unless it's set so, not even if you log in via rdp unless you set the session limit.
did you set any extra security features for your administrative account? like save the password in reverse order or encrypet it or something.
as long as the session is active it should not lose it's credentials and revalidation of those should not be a problem.
running it as a service would only be better if you want it to run at anytime regardless if you are logged in or not. if this app run with out any crashes and security issues and you want it running all the time go for it, any doubts, maybe not.
you can set the session limits fairly easily via build in group policy and an even easier tool to do that is GPMS, group policy management. thats if you run active directory, if not your local policy should cover the same features.

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FordGT90Concept May 19, 2008, 04:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
BoT said:
did you set any extra security features for your administrative account?

Nope, it has been doing that since a clean install of Server 2003 x64 Edition. Similarly, the password complexity policy is enabled by default and Internet zone security props for pretty much every single domain accessed. It is extremely secure out of the box.


BoT said:
as long as the session is active it should not lose it's credentials and revalidation of those should not be a problem.

I don't think it loses credentials--it just requires them to be reentered in order to validate the user after activity has ended for a while (I suspect 3 minutes but I have no idea).

BoT said:
running it as a service would only be better if you want it to run at anytime regardless if you are logged in or not. if this app run with out any crashes and security issues and you want it running all the time go for it, any doubts, maybe not.

It does need to run all the time regardless but I do need to interact with it several times throughout the day. That is what concerns me the most about making it a service. Maybe it would be better to just create an account that is to be ran all the time except for administrative functions that does have the application on it? There's really no reason to use the Administrator account except for installing it.

If a new user account is the way to go, what would be the best way to set that up via Active Directory? I assume it shouldn't have administrative rights but what rights need to be given in order to log into a domain controlled user profile (Remote Desktop Connection?)?

I doubt there is any security issues because it only has access to the directory the executable is ran from. It also does nothing via network. I wouldn't call it 100% stable but, any stability issue it has is caught by the .NET framework and therefore very unlikely to progress any farther than a Dr. Watson error report.


BoT said:
thats if you run active directory, if not your local policy should cover the same features.

Yes, Active Directory is up and running now.


I checked some documentation on .NET managed services and from the looks of it, it can only use class libraries. I highly doubt a service can be managed by a windows application so, it would seem that the best option is the limited user account approach. I will probably still try a service just to make certain but I am not expecting it to work.

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Beavis Khan May 19, 2008, 09:39am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
FordGT90Concept said:

I checked some documentation on .NET managed services and from the looks of it, it can only use class libraries. I highly doubt a service can be managed by a windows application so, it would seem that the best option is the limited user account approach. I will probably still try a service just to make certain but I am not expecting it to work.


The typical approach here would be to split the application into a real service (that is, one with no interactive component), and a separate GUI application to interact with the service itself. You can use the ServiceController class to stop/start or send custom requests to your service.

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FordGT90Concept May 19, 2008, 01:49pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: May 19, 2008, 02:24pm EDT

 
>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
The only way that would work is if a service can produce sounds. I can check that pretty quickly...

Edit: It didn't work. No sounds can be played from a service.

So....how is the best way to make like a guest account with very few priviledges on the server itself? Remote desktop connection?

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BoT May 19, 2008, 06:58pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
a standard user account would do. you can make those as open or locked down as you like. you create those in the active directory snap in under administrative tools.
if you can't find group policy management snap in the administrative tools, then you can create it via mmc and just add the snap in

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FordGT90Concept May 20, 2008, 01:33am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
So...add new Computer instead of User?

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BoT May 20, 2008, 06:56pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
sorry for the late reply, a standard user account in the user group would do.
i was just concerned because you mentioned guest account. the build in guest account is disabled by default and it should remain this way because it opens all kinds of doors that you would not want open. the computer account will probably not work because it needs a machine number/ id.

just in case you are interested in the group policy management, it's a really neet tool.
it's not always located in the administrative tools, so you can create it via mmc.
at the run command typ "mmc", this will open the mmc and from here you can select modules you want displayed in the mmc, including the gpm. you can also customize modules a bit.

the gpm is good for administrating user and computers in your domain.

You can either be part of the problem or be part of the solution.
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Gerritt May 20, 2008, 07:38pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Ford,
I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but generating user accounts will not permit for triggered events, or sounds when the console user is logged off, no matter what user you use.
In order to support both on a server platform you'll have to have both the service process running, and in order to hear the beep, boop, or Frankenstein by the EWG, you'll need to have a logged in user via the client interface, or on the console, with as you found in your search. So a small client front end process needs to be broken out from the service process.
This is not a matter of User or Group permissions, but a matter of how a server provides a service, and how clients (whether local or remote) connect to the service. Two different issues.
For testing through the local console connection, you can disable the Auto-logout function to test, but if you are rolling this into a production environment this is not acceptable, so the app needs to be split.
If I'm missing something here, I appologize, but some of the responses seem to be client vs server centric, and you are having a server issue.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
FordGT90Concept May 20, 2008, 10:58pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: May 21, 2008, 12:33am EDT

 
>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Gerritt said:
I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but generating user accounts will not permit for triggered events, or sounds when the console user is logged off, no matter what user you use.

That's why my intent is to create the user account and always use it unless I need to address something that needs administrative rights (e.g. installing new software).

Gerritt said:
If I'm missing something here, I appologize, but some of the responses seem to be client vs server centric, and you are having a server issue.

I think you are so I'll give a little more back story...

The application I use is basically an alarm application that runs an event-based timeline. I've used the same code to perform nightly MySQL backups for instance (which could be made into a service...actually I think it is); however, this use of the code is to remind me to do stuff which I am very good at forgetting (e.g. appointments, taking meds, etc.). In order for it to inform me, I have hooked up a pair of speakers which go blaring when something needs attention. As such, I can hear it everywhere in the house.

Since a service won't allow me to use that method to draw my attention, I'd need to either find a different way or make a user account on which it could run 24/7. I owned two watches in my lifetime and only wore each once and never put it on again. I also had a cellphone which was off for all but one occasion (car battery dead). Because of this, I concluded only an audio cue would work for me. It has worked for over a year until I got this bright idea to install Server 2003 (I'm thinking more and more so that it was a mistake but...I digress).

So, I'm left with a $3000+ server that is currently incapable of doing it's primary task (reminding).


Edit: When I try to login to the server (log off as administrator and in as my usual login credentials), I get the following message (I am a member of only Domain Users group):

Title: Logon Message
Body: The local policy of this system does not permit you to logon interactively.

Um... :~

________________________
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Gerritt May 21, 2008, 12:08pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I believe you'll have to make your user a member of the server operators group....or....
Open the Domain or Local Security Policy applicatoin under Administrative Tools.
Drill down to Local Policies/Security Options.
Select Accounts:limit local account use..Disable.
Either of these should work for you.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
FordGT90Concept May 21, 2008, 02:31pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Gerritt said:
I believe you'll have to make your user a member of the server operators group....or....

I can't find a Server Operators user group. :(


Gerritt said:
Open the Domain or Local Security Policy applicatoin under Administrative Tools.
Drill down to Local Policies/Security Options.
Select Accounts:limit local account use..Disable.
Either of these should work for you.

I did find that one but the full text is "Accounts: Limit local account use of blank passwords to console login only." I don't think that is correct. :~

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Gerritt May 21, 2008, 08:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Hmmm... you may not be using the right MMC plug in.
I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure that Server Operators is a valid user group, but I've not gone out to look at it, and I don't have a 2003 active right now.
IF you are running this 2003 server as a DC, then the actual groups or permissions may be listed differently. What you need to do is find the local security policy or group policy that is preventing anyone except a Administrator/Domain Administrator from logging on to the console.

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
FordGT90Concept May 21, 2008, 08:12pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I'm not using MMC because when I open it, it has a Console Root that has to be built. I have been using Start -> Programs -> Administrative Tools -> Active Directory Users and Computers.

Yeah, I'll have to go through all of the policies with a fine tooth comb. That's going to take a while...

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BoT May 21, 2008, 09:08pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
when you in the mmc, console root do this:

click "file" and add/ remove snap in

http://ezsmhub.com/images/hwa/mmc1.jpg

then select which module you want to select. here are more modules then you find in the administrative tools under start/progarms...

http://ezsmhub.com/images/hwa/mmc2.jpg

complete the selection and finish your new console. this is need because you can mix and match modules according to your need instead of opening them all in seperate windows.

http://ezsmhub.com/images/hwa/mmc3.jpg

with the example of group policy, it will give you these options and more

http://ezsmhub.com/images/hwa/mmc4.jpg

You can either be part of the problem or be part of the solution.
Codisha - http://www.codisha.com
Reviews - http://www.codisha.com/reviews/reviews.htm
FordGT90Concept Jun 16, 2008, 09:53pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
I think I finally found a solution to my problem. It is far from the best solution but, I'm desperate.

I found this:
http://www.experts-exchange.com/OS/Microsoft_Operating_Systems...40784.html

Which basically said to disable the screen saver. I did that, and so far, so good.

________________________
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Gerritt Jun 17, 2008, 12:27am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: XP x64 -> Server 2003 x64 Application issues
Well if it's working for you then Kudos.
I'm not sure as to why if disabling the account login after inactivity disabling didn't.
They, the Account logoff, and Screen Saver triggers, both initiate some of the same limitting processes, but I was under the impression that as long as the UID was active, that this could reinitiate the present session, and thus override the screen saver.
Having said that, if you DID PW protect your screen saver, this may be the area of contention, but if you did the same under XP, then I don't know why it would have worked there and not on the server console with the same settings..

Gerritt

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO

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