This is a big mistake for a general operating system. A UI designed for touch-screen will be very awkward to use with mouse/keyboard. Unless Win7 provides a way to select a legacy UI designed for mouse/keyboard then this is going to be a disaster. Unfortunately, if they spend the development budget on the touch-screen interface design, then the legacy UI design will likely suffer...either seeing no improvement in design over the current Vista interface, or worse...seeing some degree of reduced functionality/aesthetics.

I find the constantly repeated single example of manipulating maps and photos to be inadequate to justify this jump to a major UI change for the entire OS.

A touch-screen and voice augmented UI I can see being very helpful, but being the primary User Interface? No.

As far as I know, desktop-oriented high-resolution touch-screen displays are still considerably more expensive than standard displays. This would immediately create a huge capital budget problem for business and government agencies.



(BTW-I know this topic was partly discussed in another thread some months ago, and I wanted to add this to that thread. But, using the HWA search tool and manually looking through likely fora I couldn't find it after 20 minutes of searching. Since Gates continues to focus on this at various venues, it warranted revisiting.)


edit to add-I've often seen people smash their mouse down on a desk, or bash their closed fist on the keyboard...can you imagine what that kind of treatment will do to a display interface? Or, how about yelling at the computer to "make it understand"? Maybe it'll kinda be like like people who talk louder at someone who speaks a foreign language, too.

I think I'm going to buy stock in Windex!

I think this is the thread you were talking about, http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/70799/

Yeah, I agree if touch screen, voice command is on top of good old K and M interface, that's fine. But if solely utilizing those for all interactions with the OS is going be a huge learning curve for users, not to mention could be initially very buggy. Some the of features, like command prompt, text editing, are better left with keyboard controls.

Dr. Peaceful said:
Yup. That's it. The search was really frustrating because I was even using 'albrich' in some of the searches as I knew I had created it...but, nada. Strange.

BTW John,
Are "fora", like "octupi", or "cacti"?
Hell, I thought I had a handle on the english language when I figured out that you could have a flock of birds, but only a murder of crows....sigh.
Gerritt

Grr, that's kind of like using motion sensing in games (Wii, for one) when pushing a button is far more reliable and responsive.

I mean, an OS that is built as a presentation platform that is designed for use with touch screen monitors, voice interactions, etc. is a good idea but it should completely separate from the desktop/workstation/laptop versions of the OS--think Windows XP Media Center Edition... If they do abandon keyboard/mouse, Windows 7 will be the end of Windows.

Touch screens are like voice, or even mouse.
Each is less specific than the keyboard, but permits for general data entry.
Just as audio and or icon/picture is less specific than text as an output.
You can't code in touch screen.
You can't read the Constitution via pictures....and audio just takes way too long.
I remember Baulmer talking about this same shtuff back about 9 years ago, insofar as the touch screen stuff....and guess what, the tablet BSOD'd.
A keyboard/texual interface is a necessity to the underlying utilization of a computer for the simple requirement of specificity, while the less specific I/O is necessary for user friendliness.
Anyone with a PalmOS thats tried to right a e-mail can tell you that much.

Gerritt

A touch screen is basically a pointing device and video device wrapped in one. It works great for presentations (watch a little CNN as they have it on IE7) but for making a presentation, probably not the best idea. Voice-issued commands may be best, if not only option, for the visually impaired...

What I'm getting at is that Microsoft should develop a core OS (perhaps a Server-class OS without the Server functions), that is, a stripped down OS that no one (especially EU) can complain about. From that core, specialize it. Release a version that relies on a touchscreen monitor for the projection computers. Release a version that relies heavily on audio cues for the visual impaired. Release a version that is suited for the gamers/enthusiasts with heavy reliance on 3D graphics and an alt+tab that actually works on full screen applications. Release a media center edition for computers that act as a DVR with all features accessible via remote. Release a workstation version that has collaboration tools availble. Release an office version that comes with a complete office suite integrated to save IT time installing, updating, etc. Finally, release an enterprise version that allows a corporation to install whichever of the above (within licence constraints) are needed.

Hmmm....If I understand what you are saying properly Ford, then I find myself agreeing with you.
All of the file formats and anciliary connectivity should be in the basic package, insofar as displaying it, but the capability to make some of the packaged capabilities be released only in add ons or in package enhancements.
I can't think of a Business application that actually needs 3D, but the scientific or gamer community may need it. I can't think of a time when I would need to use a touch screen on my home PC, whether or not I use it for business or gaming, but if I'm out and about, then it does make sense. Is this what you're trying to say?

Gerritt

Add-ons would work for some of the things but not others. Like a presentation-type OS would need everything designed to be handled through a touch screen including all mouse and keyboard functionality (context-sensitive pop up keyboard and virtual mouse). Likewise, the operating system for the visually impaired (mostly going for blind here) needs to basically be an auditory operating system that really doesn't even need a display but does need a mic and speakers.

The other things would work well as add-ons because they don't really involve fundamental changes in the operating system to work.

I doubt very much they are ridding themselves of mouse and keyboard. They're just doing better touch stuff.

I'd argue you can't do touch screen better unless you do away with mouse/keyboard. When the mouse/keyboard are removed from the table, the innovations have to start pouring in for it to be a success. Regardless, touch screens will never displace most computing situations but it will improve the few places they are practical and already implemented (media, presentations, things of that sort).

A_Pickle said:
I agree they aren't eliminating keyboard/mouse, but if they design for touch/voice the UI will change substantially...and that does make using a keyboard and mouse extremely awkward...at least in every touch-screen oriented OS I've used so far.

As expressed earlier, I'm also concerned that it means they will put less effort (if any) into continuing to improve/innovate the keyboard/mouse UI, and that can also negatively impact the user experience. For example, a number of people believe the UI changes made in Vista make it much better than XP...so what happens when Microsoft quits reviewing and evolving this K/M interface?

I'm very familiar with the corporate software development process and you only have so much budget to go around. When the uber-boss finds religion, has a mystical revelation and commands touch screen/voice shall be "The Way", the choir sings the praises of "The Way" and other things fall by the way-side. Apple provides a few historical examples of such marketing disasters.


edit to add:
Gerritt said:Kinda. More like agendum/agenda, datum/data, and other Latin-based singular/plural words. I've always liked the animal lists like this and similar websites:
http://www.rinkworks.com/words/collective.shtml
Is it an order of octopi? A pod of cephalopods? A mustering of mollusks?
According to:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/critters/crow.html
"(A murder of crows) came about because a group of crows will sometimes kill a dying crow."

Kinda like a game made for console controllers on the PC, the UI usually sucks. Yeah, I can see that. I hope they don't.

I had hopes for windows 7. Now they've cut minwin. I lost my hopes. D:

Can someone say "Minority Report Technology"? LOL
Bill Gatez, http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/sha0089l.jpg
Tom Croooz, http://dashboardspy.com/img/minority-report-dashboards.jpg

I can't stand touch screens. I like my screen clean and finger print free!
Also I'm gonna use the same amount of energy, if not more on the touch screen
compared to a mouse and keyboard. Touch screen's time consuming too.
I don't know what Gates thinks of these days. His advisors must be getting paid too
much money or somin.

On one of the CNC Lathes at my work, it has a touch sensitive screen. It's a pain
in the arse. Besides, I still have use the keyboard as well, so it makes it pointless.
I just don't like it. But it's ok for other things tho, such as Tourist Information Boothes
in the towns & cities, or a bus stops, etc, etc. Or at a kids playgroup where kids
still leanrning...

Hey, does anyone know what windows 7 will be used for primarily?? like laptops and cellphones, or even for desktop pcs?
whats the point of using touchscreen, especially if ure playin ure state of the art DX10.1 games

Nah the touch screen would be for apps, etc. Not gaming or anything like that.

Bill Gatez, in a public conference along with HP CEOs, some time in 2009 Q1:


Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, I doubt you can play FPS games by touch screen.