I thought I'd share this story just to make sure everybody is using them correctly.

I went to a customer's house to check out her system which was not going online. Lightning strikes have been taking place all around Florida for weeks now. When I get there, I noticed the USB part of the modem was not working (froze any PC it was connected to), and the network card had been blown out as well. The customer asked me "Well isn't this protected by the surge protector". It is to a certain point. She had DSL, and these kinds of modems require a phone line, which plugs in straight to the wall - lightning can enter through these.

Please guys, to protect your computers properly, make sure you get a surge protector that will protect any kind of power or communication cable. The surge protector I use allows for connection to Coax (TV), phone and Ethernet or CAT cables.

Hope this helps, and please do share any other recommendations.

A Surge protector may not do anything.

If there is a storm outside, just turn off your computer.

I don't think this warranted yet another thread on the subject.

Protecting the I/O ports gets covered virtually every time the issue of surge protectors/lightning comes up.

It's also been covered that Florida is a high-risk location for computers vis-a-vis lightning.

I don't understand what you are trying to say?

Joshua Marius said:
Uh...I just don't see the value?

That I believe if everyone created a new thread to share each of their personal anecdotes about very common topics, HWA would run out of storage?

That creating a separate thread that is simply one of many anecdotal stories about the dangers of not using surge protection, in a topic that is already very common on HWA, isn't going to make any difference?

If it were something less common and more unusual, I might see the point. But it isn't, and I don't.


That it would be far more effective to:

Create a thread that says, "see this thread" and then pointing to a relevant thread such as,
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/71982/
(because that provides much more useful information than exists in the example story)

Or, simply create a new thread that says "You should search on "surge protector" in the HWA search field".


edit to add-
You stated that the goal of posting your thread was to ensure people were using surge protectors properly. There's nothing in your post that actually does that.

Listen, with all due respect, I just shared a story, I know you may not feel like reading it due to some kind of "repeat" but others may find the information useful. I'm by no means trying to be redundant at all. There are a lot of threads on here that have not helped me at all, or I find boring, or offensive, or repeated, so I just move on to the next one. Its a forum, and everybody should have the freedom to express and share a simple two paragraph story if they think it may help somebody else.

I searched the forum for the same topic and found nothing similar to my situation, so thats why I decided to post it. I know you are very experienced and already know the information, but others may find it useful.


Then you can post how to use them correctly or add some links. Instead of becoming a part of the problem, be a part of the solution, help out any way you can. The last sentence asks you politely to share information.

John what is it with you and Josh? I couldn't really give a toss about what ever's posted
on here. But you do. And so do a few others come to think of it. Like for instance
when someone opens up an old thread. Someone has to havea gripe about it. Who
cares? I mean FFS who gives a s**t. It seems to irritate you. Why? iIf you don't
appreciate what he or who ever else has wrote, then just ignore it. You can be quite
anal at times. You're not even a moderator, so technically you've no say in whatever
anyone posts about what ever topic.

Quite frankly I have noticed that some old threads remain unattended, with no responses for days. So I try to help. But as soon as I reply...all of a sudden my replies are overthrown quite rapidly.

I'm just here to help, that's all.

I am currently dealing with an issue where every time a lightning strike hits close, the RJ11 jack goes silent. I've lost at least half a dozen surge protectors and one UPS to it. Now I daisy chain cheaper surge protectors in order to save the expensive UPS.

I don't think the surge is coming from outside because the phone line surge protectors outside of the house are still functioning. It is either arcing over from AC to the phone line or there is a ground differential causing the problem.

I've also seen the damage from a direct lightning hit being caught by a surge protector (lots of black residue). Stupid me, I used the surge protector again without knowing it failed and it killed another computer. XD

Tam the Bam said:

Not being a moderator doesn't mean someone can't have an opinion about a post. You're providing an opinion about mine, after all.

As for the advice to "just ignore it"...if you closely examine the posts where I don't just ignore it, it usually involves my attempting to address inaccurate, misleading, or incomplete information which can do more harm than good.

In this case, the OP is woefully incomplete, did not meet its stated objective, and a newbie following the instructions could think they are fully protected when in fact they are not.

That is not a good situation.

I didn't initially go into all that mainly because I thought the post didn't need to take a lot of time, and I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it. I simply expressed my opinion about the post. And, I suggested a way people could get more detailed information on the topic.

But then, I was pressed for clarification (which I interpreted to mean explain my reasons).

When pressed, is when I supply the details that apparently render me "anal".


(BTW, your advice could apply equally to "just ignore" my posts. I don't mind....really )


edit to add-
And jeez, Tam. If your "Who likes boobies?" and "Guys, guys, guys" posts don't bother me, I'd think you of all people would understand the difference.

Joshua Marius said:

That's just frankly insulting. I'm pretty sure you know my history of helping people on this website, and your comment is nothing but a cheap shot using a trite phrase designed by PR types for politicians (and business executives) to make someone look "bad" regardless of the facts. By the way, I did in fact tell people how they could get detailed information on the topic...so I was in fact "part of the solution".


As for sharing information on this particular thread, I think it is unproductive to do so. As I said, the information is already covered much more thoroughly in existing HWA threads, some of them quite recent, and I believe people would be better served searching and going to those threads.

As for searching and not finding anything similar? An HWA internal search on or even substantially limiting the search by including the keyword "lightning" provides a number of topical threads including posts describing virtually the same thing.

I review very carefully everything that I write and re-read as well. When I sent this story to some extreme newbs (clients who only know what the power button is), they said "Good info, I'll read up more on surge protectors and how to keep my PC safe". Can you see what the point is? It's not to tell them what to do, but expose them to a situation, and to pay attention to protecting their computers.


This is what amazes me about you. How you come up with stuff so that you can have some kind of say in the thread. I just stated that one should do as much as possible to have all their lines going through a surge protector (RJ11, CAT5, etc.). But if one analyzes every single post the way you do, then all of them are incorrect.

I think this sentence says it all:


How does it misinform the newbies? Doesn't this encourage you to go out and read about it, investigate, question, and try your best to make sure what I wrote does not happen to you?

The link you gave in one of your posts was helpful, and would have been more than enough along with something like "Hey, we've covered this topic before, check out this link". But nooooooooooooooo, nothing satisfies you man. You had to first call my post useless and then go on and on and on...

Sorry that I had never seen the only two methods to go online that a customer had (USB, Ethernet) be hit by lightning at the same time and decided to share it so people could be more careful.


Why do you always resort to this. Did you see what you said to R G here: http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/72052/


This to me is insulting. All you had to do was be polite and say to post more information. People express themselves differently, yeah so he may hate Windows, I in particular love it, but did I say something against him? Or did I make an effort to help. You should start to acknowledge that not everybody expresses themselves like you and not everybody will write the way YOU want them to.

Honestly I think you are embarrassing yourself in front of everybody, and making the environment in HWA very tense and uncomfortable. Enough said

Joshua Marius said:

You're right. I could have said that in a much kinder way, and I'll edit it. However, I do have to say you didn't include the rest of my statement, which (along with my "smiley face") I thought pretty much demonstrated humor in the situation, not an actual "attack".


Editing finished? I hope this is better.



edit to add-
Since you raised the issue regarding R.G.'s thread...this is added to ensure accuracy and context:
Joshua Marius said:
I also said this in my response to R.G.'s request for help:
John Albrich said:

Joshua Marius said:
Three reasons actually:
1) Nine times out of ten, the surge arcs from AC to phone lines so the device would be fried surge protected or not.
2) Lightning behaves in strange ways. You could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to protect yourself from it and have the facility receive a direct hit destroying all electronic equipment on site. A surge protector can be helpful, yes, but you can never guarentee absolute safety from a strike. It comes down to a cost/benefit factor: Is it worth x number of dollars to have a y chance of preventing damage beyond the protector?
3) Internet service providers tell you to bypass surge protectors whenever you call them and never recommend using one in the first place. The ISP may be the main reason what that lady didn't have protection on it (I'd guess some ISP tech rep plugged it in and she doesn't have a clue that the system is being exposed). It really is a conflict of interest there.

LOL

the title of this thread sorta looks like its saying that all Surge Protectors need to read this.

Sorry, that was highly irrelevant.


bye

FordGT90Concept said:

This is your opinion and the way you see it. Those above are not reasons because I never stated absolutely anything to disagree with what you just wrote. I just gave out suggestions. I didn't even recommend any types of products or gave instructions to do anything, once again, just suggestions. You want to see it this way because of the obvious - a chance to have a say in this thread, to make your almighty presence.

What you are doing is writing reasons for why surge protectors aren't as effective or why you cant predict their behavior, an argument mostly accurate, that has nothing to do with me. What I said won't hurt anybody. You yourself said they may help or they may not, so it does not hurt to tell a STORY, not a command, on what happened on one of my visits to a customer.

You are notorious for not agreeing with what anybody says. So with you, I can never be right no matter what I say. So I might as well just start agreeing with you now so we don't start another endless riot.

Joshua Marius said:
There is a fine line between opinion and fact. The first point is coming from my ISP (Frontier Communications), a surge protector manufacturer (PowerSentry), and a friend of the family that works with a different ISP (division of Long Lines). The second point comes from another frequent poster's personal experience (Gerritt) and my own experience having taken a transformer hit twice. The third point comes from my experience with my ISP (Frontier Communications). I define "fact" as the dominant opinion.


Joshua Marius said:
I simply rebuked how your simple "suggestion" has holes (point 1 and 2) and may have actually occurred because of the ISP's recommendation (point 3). That flame I quoted is quite uncalled for.


Joshua Marius said:
A false sense of security has resulted in many fatalities and not just in lightning strikes.


Joshua Marius said:
When I say nothing, I generally agree. I pounce on the points I disagree with. It is just my personality.

You disagree with everything, and you can state facts all you want, anybody can read or Google, but the facts make you look unapproachable when it has nothing to do with what I said. This is an easy way to embarrass yourself and make it look 100% that you are just dying to say something against the thread, instead of just moving on to the next one. This also makes the forum uncomfortable.

How can you read somebody's experience and then make a statement like "please guys be careful, make sure you have this and that" - how in the world does that trigger ppl to say "Im safe! Nothing's gonna happen to me!!!". Just continues to amaze me how you twist that so that YOU can be right.

Jeez. now you can't even share an experience, or make an effort to prevent it from happening to other people. Way to go guys.

I won't dignify that ignorance with a constructive response as it will just be met with more ignorance.

Give the man a break, he is just trying to tell a story from his experience and hopefully help someone out. He has a good point, as many people only plug in their AC power plugs into the surge protector and not their phone lines or coaxial lines. While a surge over these lines are probably more rare, they are still worth protecting if your surge protector has these features.

Thanks for sharing your story, Joshua

Adam Kolak said:
I told you why they don't (point 3 above): ISP's order customers to plug modems directly into the wall. Considering most people don't even set up their own Internet connections (the ISP does), most don't even know that the ISP's advice is generally bad as it only covers their interest and not the consumers.

I'm shocked ISPs haven't be sued over advising customers to not protect their investment. They rebuke this by providing their own modems declaring that if your modem/bridge gets fried, it will be replaced at no cost to you; however, they conviently forget that surges tend to pass through more than just one device (e.g. from the bridge to your computer or network devices).

A lot of ISPs even demand that surge protectors in-house are useless because they have surge protectors on the lines...

I mean, yeah, they see what lightning does to electronics more often than most. Perhaps ISPs are correct in that surge protectors usually do not perform the job they are designed for. Kind of like how homeowners insurance won't back you on getting lightning rods for your house even though it could save a lot of money in damages.

My conclusion is that we really don't know jack about lightning beyond the voltage and amperage of a typical strike.