Both are about $1500 USD.

This one?


Or this one?


Or something not listed?

Personally I would prefer the Toshiba. Every Toshiba laptop I've ever used has stood up exceptionally well.

I'd love a Panasonic Toughbook if there wasn't such a premium price on them.

I have never tested the ruggedness of either laptop, but based on looks only the first one appears to be more rugged, and the Toshiba looks just like every other Toshiba laptop made in the last few years.

When I think of rugged laptops, the two that came to mind right away for me was the Panasonic Toughbook line and Dell's Latitude ATG. Both of them though are probably easily $1000 more then the two laptops you are looking at. They are also probably not what I would consider "semi-rugged" either.

The Dell Latitude ATG starts at $2000. Most Panasonic Toughbooks are $3000+. Both are a little out of my budget.


I thought the same about the Systemax. My problem with the Toshiba is they are forcing me to pick one of three Operating Systems (XP Pro, Vista Business, or Vista Ultimate--all 32-bit) when I want Vista Home Premium as preferrably a 64-bit install. I'm basicly getting screwed there but at the same time, they offer 12-cell batteries for $150 when Systemax batteries are a blatant rip off ($130 for a 9 cell).

I need rugged because the Systemax Pursit 4110 that this computer is to replace doesn't look so great after 3.5 years of use. It has been through a truck wreck and still works but it is clearly approaching its end. I want something built for the road unlike most typical laptops.


Systemax is also very good about keeping away from bloatware while Toshiba is not. Most of the hardware on the Systemax is rather dated--the new stuff is extremely expensive. There is also no way to get 1 x 2048 MiB memory in the Systemax so I can add another 2 GiB later. As it turns out, neither fit my needs very well.

I don't think I've ever used a pre-installed OS on any laptop ... just too much s**t in there. The only way I wouldn't format and reinstall is if they installed the OS I wanted, and left it there. Just like a "real" install.

The Lenovo laptops tend to be pretty well built, while not rugged, they are used by business personnel who do travel quite often. They also are more money then the two laptops you are looking at, but they are cheaper then a ToughBook or an ATG.

Actually looking that the Lenovo Thinkpad T61 over on their website its considerably cheaper then I thought, starting at around $900 for a decent configuration.

I'd be leaning towards the Tecra for a couple of reasons.
1. Single slot 2GB DRAM configuration.
2. Vista Ultimate vs Home Premium.
3. Toshiba - multi-billion $$$ multinational, Systemax ???
4. Warantee specifications require a Snailmail letter to TigerDirect for Systemax....bogus! The link for support for the Systemax http://tools.supportforyourpc.com/main.asp?siteid=2 does not work.

Though you've listed a 3yr warantee, both come with a standard 1 yr limitted. I do know that several years ago most of the Toshiba warantee centers closed in the US, but warantee services are available through 2 in the US, and multiple 3rd party approved vendors. I don't know about Systemax.

If you are looking at moving site to site, and perhaps joining domains temporarily, the Home Premium will not permit this as it does not support the machine ID criteria necessary in W2k or W2k3 infrastructure.

All in all, I'd have to go with the Toshiba Tecra. Good track record, good support (though not great), and a better all-around configuration at $1500.

Adam Kolak said:
I worked with a Lenovo not too long ago. Let's just say it took 6-7 disks to reinstall Windows from an erase with no option to cut back. I would never recommend again unless you intend to buy a fresh OS disk separately.


Gerritt said:
1) I want 1 x 2 GiB so I can add another stick later without the OEM premium price. The odds of adding another stick is relatively slim so this isn't critical but preferable. The Systemax doesn't even make this adjustable.
2) I want Home Premium because I want DVD playback and burning without 3rd party software (I won't use any of the features Ultimate offers over Home Premium so effectively I am wasting north of $100 on Ultimate).
3) Systemax is a Fortune 1000 company. If I buy it, it will be the 5th Systemax I worked with. I really can't say anything bad about them from a corporation standpoint.
4) The support address is: http://www.supportforyourpc.com/ It has worked better than Dell, HP, Compaq, and Lenovo in the past. You enter your serial number in there and it tells you everything specific to the model from the purchase date to what exactly is installed and all applicable drivers (and I mean applicable...unlike Dell).


Gerritt said:
Systemax services computers in Fletcher, Ohio. With laptops, it is my policy to get the longest hardware coverage possible. It paid for itself on my Systemax Pursuit 4110 (motherboard died about 4 months prior to the three year warranty expiring).


Gerritt said:
It's for my dad. He drives tractor/trailer across the continental US. It will also be used to play DVDs, light gaming (e.g. Mafia), and Internet access while on vacations and/or long distance trips. The only domain it could ever be exposed to is mine at home which is already setup to not require connecting to the domain.


Gerritt said:
I still don't know.

All the crappy pre-installed free software they include that will have to be either uninstalled or updated really pushes me away from purchase. Systemax doesn't make a habit of putting any software on there that isn't helping you take full advantage of the hardware (e.g. TV tuner software if the computer has a TV tuner). Just look at all the bloatware:
http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/data...ST9002.pdf

At the same time, it has a bonus by offering Bluetooth and 802.11n. I do need Bluetooth for a GPS transmitter. If it isn't built in, I have a Zoom PC Card to add Bluetooth support (I need one or the other, basically).

And what's worse, they don't make a fresh install option available...only recovery.


I think I'm leaning towards the Tecra at this point just because hardware is the most important aspect of a laptop but my mind is still not made up. That Systemax is pretty sharp lookin'...

Good points all Ford.
And good aditional information.
Mayhap Systemax is a good product/company, but the links off of your purchacing site did not work (tigerdirect.com). I've never worked with or on a Systemax, but have worked with Toshibas in Japan, Europe and the USA, and have found the HW to be satisfactory.
As pertains to the bloatware, I have to agree that the OEMs need to get away from this travisty, and provide a installation CD/DVD that is not a "Factory Restore", but I thought that Toshiba provided this upon request and perhaps for an additional cost. I've stopped using "restore Disk" with my laptops (I have 5 running right now), but this may require an additional Driver disk as well as the standard (non-OEM) purchase of the OS product.

Insofar as DVD burning, I've always purchaced a 3rd party application for this, as I do a lot of ISO burning, and don't want to be beholden to whatever MS packages.

If you are cool with the Systemax, then who am I to tell you otherwise?
Heck, I may actually concider them myself based upon your recommendation.

Gerritt

Gerritt said:
I called Toshiba about that and they said it comes with a "recovery disk." I assume that means "OS + bloatware disk" but I am not certain. There is no way to obtain an OS-only disk.

Systemax, in the past, includes a driver/software disk plus the "recovery disk" which is the operating system with a non-Microsoft label. It has absolutely no bloatware in it.

Software: Systemax > Toshiba
Hardware: Toshiba > Systemax

In the end, being a laptop, I think this equation ultimately answers my question:
Hardware > Software

That means I should get the Toshiba.

Well according to your formulas, Systemax wins hands down



Maybe you meant:

Hardware: Toshiba > Systemax

?

Yeah, oops.

FordGT90Concept said:

i actually just bought one a couple of month age. mine was about $1100, because i went with the T9300 chip. very nice. mine came with vista home even thou i wanted vista business but i didn't specify that when i purchased. not a big deal because i have to run xp on it anyway. i had no trouble installing it and lenovo software update installs all the rest of the stuff you need. they are pretty rugged, more so the the two listed...i would say.
it even has a feature to protect your hdd in case of bumps.
also, includes a hidden back up partition which will let you reinstall or recover you system even if it is not bootable anymore. very important to me because i need it when i am on the go. just my two cents

The actual rugged Lenovo laptops start at $1700 and cost at least $2000 with appropriate warranty (Lenovo is very expensive in the warranty department). You can usually tell if they are rugged by the thickness and especially the weight. Rugged laptops are far from light. The Systemax is on the order of 15+ lbs when a non-rugged model weighs around 6 lbs. I'm not sure what this Tecra weighs.

I went with the Tecra:

Tecra A9-ST9002
-Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor T8100 (2.1GHz, 3MB L2, 800MHz FSB)
-Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate 32-Bit
-Microsoft® Office 2007 Suite Ready
-2048MB PC5300 DDR2 667MHz SDRAM (2048MBx1)
-15.4" Diagonal WXGA display (1280x800)
-120GB HDD (5400rpm, Serial-ATA)
-Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 4965 AGN (802.11a/g/n)
-3 Years Standard Limited Warranty

I basically went with the cheapest everything in order to make the battery last as long as possible. There was, unfortunately, no way to get rid of that "Suite Ready" thing. When it arrives, I intend to use their recovery disk on it straight away so I know what to expect in the future. It is unfortunate it doesn't come with 64-bit Vista as an option. Essentially, if the recovery disk is absolute rubbish (which I expect it to be), I am prepared to buy a 64-bit Home Premium OS in order to get away from bloatware and also get a little memory addressability out of it. We shalt see.........


Ultimately, I went with the Toshiba because my only real beef with it is the OS which I can change for at most $220. If the hardware on the Systemax proved to be not exactly what I needed (the stuff I needed is already integrated into the Toshiba--for example, Bluetooth), it could have ended up being a $1500 mistake. The $130+ 9-cell battery is also a major turn off when I could get a 12-cell battery from Toshiba for about $150. I just hope I'm not too disappointed with the Toshiba when it arrives.

There's the first suprise: UPS says it has shipped from "SHANGHAI, CN." Yes, that is "CN" as in "China." I should have got the Systemax.

That's interesting because when I got a Dell laptop, the ODM is located in Malaysia and it is then shipped to Dell in the US where they throw in all the extra things such as the manuals, CDs, media remote, earbuds, etc. and then they test it and box it before they ship it to the customer. So I am surprised the Toshiba ships their laptops directly from the factory/warehouse in China to the customer in the US without shipping it to a Toshiba location in the US first. This could be because Toshiba laptops are probably more often purchased in a retail store, where as Dell primarily sells their systems via custom orders from their website/phone.

My HP laptop drop shipped directly from Shanghai, CN to my doorstep in about 5 days.
My unit was fully customized, packaged and sent directly from Shannghai to Orlando.
There was a shipping "order" from Memphis, TN, but they never even saw the box.
Nobody makes anything in the US anymore.

Systemax does. Custom orders are built and shipped from Fletcher, OH. Needless to say, I didn't expect it to come directly from China. Like Adam said, I expected it to be customized in the USA and shipped from the place of customization. That didn't happen.

I know Dell desktops are still "assembled in the USA" as my father recently purchased a budget Dell Vostro 200 desktop for some basic office work at his small business. They get all their parts/components from China and other Asian countries and put it all together in some assembly plant in Texas.

Adam,
What they're putting together is your order.
The lappy is probably shipped totally configured from the East.
What they assemble, is the package, manuals, external add-ons, etc.

I remember buying products in S. Korea, with the "Made in the USA" labels in the pocket, that's how they were shipped to the US, then someone here sewed in the label, thus meeting the criteria for "final assembly", or "Made in the USA".