Please register or login. There are 0 registered and 1139 anonymous users currently online. Current bandwidth usage: 326.30 kbit/s December 13 - 09:44am EST 
Hardware Analysis
      
Forums Product Prices
  Contents 
 
 

  Latest Topics 
 

More >>
 

    
 
 

  You Are Here: 
 
/ Forums / More phenomenal AMD marketing?
 

  Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing? 
 
 Author 
 Date Written 
 Tools 
Continue Reading on Page: 1, 2, 3
Gerritt Jan 15, 2009, 07:34pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
carl 0ski said:
Gerritt said:
jj jj,
There is not a huge cost difference.
On Newegg the AMD is $235 and the Intel is $295. A $60 difference yes, but this is not a huge difference.

Additionally the Intel has 8MB of L3 cache, whereas the AMD has 6MB of L3 cache.
The Intels are rated at 130W and the AMD at 125W, so you can see a small savings in power requirements as well as the $60 delta between the two offerings.
AMD will need to widen the cost/price delta even more if they want to get any market penatration....lets say a sub $200 pricing point.


Gees dude where did you study arithmatic $60 20% is a decent difference
$60 X 4 = AMD
$60 X 5 = Intel

I studied Statistics, Calculus, and Trig at the University of Maryland.
If you read my post carefully I did state that there is a difference, just not a HUGE one. To me 20% is not HUGE. You are arguing the difference between a 4" and 5" penis.

Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO
Want to enjoy less advertisements and more features? Click here to become a Hardware Analysis registered user.
Julian Innerhofer Jan 15, 2009, 07:51pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
@Hugh Scriven: I am not an AMD fanboy, I use a Intel system right now, before that I only had one AMD system (Athlon XP 2700+, later I changed the CPU to 3200+), my other systems were: Pentium III 800 MHz, Pentium I 200 MHz. I am not an fanboy at all, I alwways use, what I thing is the best I canj get for my budget.

And I had a small budget and would have to buy a new system now, I maybe would take a Phenom and I definitely would not take a Core i7, because you cannot take a core i7 if you have a small budget. And even w/ my usual budget of ~1000, I would rather take a Core 2 Quad and a better Graphics card, then a Core i7, because gaming performance is the most important performance for me.

dark41 Jan 15, 2009, 10:03pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
Julian Innerhofer said:
@Hugh Scriven: I am not an AMD fanboy, I use a Intel system right now, before that I only had one AMD system (Athlon XP 2700+, later I changed the CPU to 3200+), my other systems were: Pentium III 800 MHz, Pentium I 200 MHz. I am not an fanboy at all, I alwways use, what I thing is the best I canj get for my budget.

And I had a small budget and would have to buy a new system now, I maybe would take a Phenom and I definitely would not take a Core i7, because you cannot take a core i7 if you have a small budget. And even w/ my usual budget of ~1000, I would rather take a Core 2 Quad and a better Graphics card, then a Core i7, because gaming performance is the most important performance for me.


Sorry dude, but you're clueless. AM3 will also require a new motherboard. It's all pay me now or pay me later. The best gaming performance right now is on a i7 system, period.

Yesterday the cheapest X58 board I found retail in the USA was $200. Today Newegg has the EX58-UD3R for $184.99 after a $15 mailin rebate. Every day your argument for expensive i7 components loses validity.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375

DDR3 out performs DDR2, period. You can't compare DDR2 1066 speeds to DDR3 2000 speeds. DDR3 1333 is just as fast as any high performance DDR2 and almost as cheap now ($50 2x1gb DDR2 1066 vs $100 for 3x1gb DDR3 1333). Both from Newegg again, and you can do the math. The difference is peanuts.

i7 outperforms C2Q or Phenom II, period. Whether its clock for clock, at stock settings, or overclocked, i7 beats everything else right now.

The i7 920 is much faster than the Q6600 and about the same price. You'll buy a board which will be obsolete in 2011 and an already obsolete CPU to save a few bucks and get much less performance now? Basically what you've said is that you can't afford to upgrade at all right now.

I'm not here to talk anyone into anything. You can buy what you want, and justify it with your own use and budget. I just want to make sure the info posted is correct so everyone can make an informed decision.


I look at it this way. If i'm going to upgrade in another 18 months or less:

Do I pay a bit more for DDR3 and a supporting board now, both of which will last through several more builds and can be upgraded?
Or do I spend less on DDR2 and supporting board now, knowing I probably won't be able to use either in 18 months? (EG: Try getting a motherboard supporting DDR or A64 now).

No brainer for me. I pay more in the long run if I go cheap now and just delay the inevitable upgrade for the next build. That's fine if you just can't afford it now. But don't kid yourself that you're getting comparable performance for less money now.

As far as options, there's a lot more than just crossfireX and SLI on X58 to consider. The i7 has an onboard memory controller. The i7 is faster clock for clock than any other Intel or AMD CPU. DDR3 has more bandwidth and will only get faster and cheaper as the technology matures, where no manufacturer is improving DDR2 any further. The Phenom II and C2Q achitectures are GPU limited in the most demanding apps/games, where the X58 is CPU limited with the most demanding apps/games. AMD is going to require a new motherboard when they switch to DDR3 too (AM3). All of that effects upgrade paths as well as current performance. Etc., etc.. You need to consider everything or it's not really a well thought out decision.

The only argument provided so far that I agree with is that the current i7 is a server chip. The desktop chips are due out in 3rd quarter '09 and could change the way the i7 compares to Phenom II for both price and performance. The 1156 socket is rumored to be dual channel memory, where the 1366 socket is triple channel memory. No one knows yet if triple channel memory will mature into a faster technology. Currently it has no advantages over dual channel.

You either care about performance or price. Bang for the buck is still with Intel at this point, as it's upgrade now or upgrade later for DDR3 and all the added features of the X58. Intel has them, AMD doesn't.


EX38-DS5
E8500@4.0GHz (445x9, 1.40v) TRUE Black
Corsair HX620W
2x2gb Kingston HyperX 9600
HIS IceQ4 HD4850
2X1TB F1s (RAID 0) XP Pro/Win7 Ult 64
Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1
Cambridge Soundworks 500w 5.1
G5, Antec 1200
carl 0ski Jan 16, 2009, 04:36am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
Gerritt said:
carl 0ski said:
Gerritt said:
jj jj,
There is not a huge cost difference.
On Newegg the AMD is $235 and the Intel is $295. A $60 difference yes, but this is not a huge difference.

Additionally the Intel has 8MB of L3 cache, whereas the AMD has 6MB of L3 cache.
The Intels are rated at 130W and the AMD at 125W, so you can see a small savings in power requirements as well as the $60 delta between the two offerings.
AMD will need to widen the cost/price delta even more if they want to get any market penatration....lets say a sub $200 pricing point.


Gees dude where did you study arithmatic $60 20% is a decent difference
$60 X 4 = AMD
$60 X 5 = Intel

I studied Statistics, Calculus, and Trig at the University of Maryland.
If you read my post carefully I did state that there is a difference, just not a HUGE one. To me 20% is not HUGE. You are arguing the difference between a 4" and 5" penis.

Well no disrespect to someone flaunts education and talks like trailer trash in the same sentence
between a 4" and 5" penis.


I remember the term variance and 20% is a completely unacceptable variance in statistics.

But hey the moral I believe 20% is a huge difference, and thats me
why do you take things so personal.and believe you need to desperately gloat.

carl 0ski Jan 16, 2009, 05:54am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
dark41 said:
Sorry dude, but you're clueless. AM3 will also require a new motherboard. It's all pay me now or pay me later. The best gaming performance right now is on a i7 system, period.
[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3
http://event.asus.com/mb/AM3_CPU_Support/
Careful when you do not double check your facts before speaking

AMD has confirmed that AM3 processors will work on some AM2 motherboards. However, AM2/2+ processors will not work on AM3 motherboards because AM2 processors lack the DDR3 memory controller. Also, two extra pins and the change in contact placement[2] (940 for AM2 processors vs 938 for AM3 processors) makes the older chips mechanically incompatible with the new socket, preventing users from attempting to install an old chip in a new board.


AM3 Processors will work in most 'current' AM2 mainboards, not all obviously since first AM3 will be high power draw chips, aka must support current Phenom.

AM2 chips will not fit in AM3 sockets obviously because current AMD processors (940 pin AM2) does not support DDR3 in am3.

Plug & Play Jan 16, 2009, 06:57am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?

I would say this topic is akin to getting a women not buying a car......

You get a nice new "Model" and within a few months it slows down (around the house) does not do what you want anymore (in the bedroom) and sooner or later you get a better performer!!!!

LMFAO :P:P

i5 2500K @ 4.8Ghz- Corsiar H50 WaterCooler- Coolermaster Realpower 1000w- Asus P8P67 Deluxe - Asus 6990 4GB - 8GB Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz - X-Fi Sound - 7.1 Surround Speakers - BenQ 24" TFT - G9x Mouse- G19 Keyboard
Julian Innerhofer Jan 16, 2009, 03:42pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
DDR3 out performs DDR2, period. You can't compare DDR2 1066 speeds to DDR3 2000 speeds. DDR3 1333 is just as fast as any high performance DDR2 and almost as cheap now ($50 2x1gb DDR2 1066 vs $100 for 3x1gb DDR3 1333). Both from Newegg again, and you can do the math. The difference is peanuts.[/qoute]

I never said, that theere are no performance differences between DDR2 and DDR3, but they are insignificant for any realtime applications. You get a great boost in memory-benchmarks, but only a very small increase in any realtiem application. For most realtime applications, memory performance doesn't matter much at all, so for most people, it's the b est to buy the cheapest RAM from a good manufacturer (which is needed because of compatibility and warranty), he can get and invest the money, he saves for RAM somewhere else, even if it's not that much, he can save. And the cheapest DDR3 DIMMs are still about twice as expensive per GB as the cheapest DDR2 DIMMs. And if you compare the memory for the same price (which actually only makes sense when comparing price/GB), you can compare DDR3-1066 (the cheapest DDR3) to DDR2-1150, and then DDR2-1150 is faster because it has lower latencies. Btw, the fastest DDR2 vailable right now ist DDR2-1200, not DDR2-1066. And DDR3-2000 is over 50/GB more edxpensive then cheap DDR2 in Austria (which would be over 70$/GB) and still over 35/GB more expensive then DDR2-1150, so if you buy i.E. 6GB DDR3-2000, this is about 200-300 more expensive, then what 6GB of DDR2 would cost. It would be more intelligent, to invest this money in a better CPU or GPU. So DDR3-2000 only makes esense for people, who have virtually unlimited amounts of money.



[quote]Yesterday the cheapest X58 board I found retail in the USA was $200. Today Newegg has the EX58-UD3R for $184.99 after a $15 mailin rebate. Every day your argument for expensive i7 components loses validity.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128375


I am talking about the present, not the future.

In the german speaking countrys, there is a very famous quote, which can be translated to "predictions are hard to makes, especially for the future".

Of course, everyone knows, that s1366 board prices will fall, but nowone knows, if they will ever reach the price level of s775 or AM2+, because maybe s1366 will be phased out from the desktop market before this happened, like it was the case w/ s940. Also socket AM3 CPUs will work on AM2/AM"+ boards (see i.E: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM3 ).

You are writing, that you don't want to talk anyone into anything, but sometimes you sound lika a guy, who works for the marketing department of Intel.

Hugh Scriven Jan 16, 2009, 05:14pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
Aye, well said PnP!

We stand corrected.

Ah yes, there are 'women' and there are 'fast women!'

Aye, there is much to be said for performance. But steer clear of the 'gold-diggers!'

Bottoms up!


I would say this topic is akin to getting a women not buying a car......

You get a nice new "Model" and within a few months it slows down (around the house) does not do what you want anymore (in the bedroom) and sooner or later you get a better performer!!!!

LMFAO :P:P

Gerritt Jan 16, 2009, 07:43pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
Private Message - Add to Buddy List  
>> Re: Re: More phenomenal AMD marketing?
Ummmm, Carl,
You asked where I studied, I just responded.
I used the proper term for male genitalia, something not often used in trailer parks, to make a humorous point that a 20% difference can't always be concidered to be a huge, or even an appreciable difference. There have been times in the past, and even in the present that a performance gain of 20% costed upwards of 200%.
I can't respond to the proper terminology in Statistics, it's been over 25 years since I studied it, so I'll except your assertion that I used an improper syntax. However, I still think that the 20% price difference is not a hugh,high, or even appreaciable one given the perfomance and extended usablility/support timeframes for the i7. If I can get a computer upgrade utilizing the newest generation technology for $1200 vs. purchacing older technology with a limited future support for $1000, I'll opt for the $1200 option any day.

BTW, I am not trailer trash, I am a high tech redneck, or to say it a different way, one of the rarest of the rare: A native Floridian....with an education. See, I can laugh at myself :)




Ad Astra Per Aspera
(A rough road leads to the Stars)
We all know what we know, and everyone else knows we are wrong.
System Specifications in BIO

Write a Reply >>

Continue Reading on Page: 1, 2, 3

 

    
 
 

  Topic Tools 
 
RSS UpdatesRSS Updates
 

  Related Articles 
 
 

  Newsletter 
 
A weekly newsletter featuring an editorial and a roundup of the latest articles, news and other interesting topics.

Please enter your email address below and click Subscribe.