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  USB power stays on during sleep 
 
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Mar 14, 2009, 03:55am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 14, 2009, 03:56am EDT

Replies: 18 - Views: 10821
So I rigged up my CPU fan to a USB header, soldered internally. I did this because Acer does not support controlling the fan via software and its default behavior as set by the BIOS was very irritating.

So now, it is running at a constant speed and is much nicer on my ears, my entire system is running much cooler, and the USB port itself is still fully functional (well, it will only handle about 300mA now as opposed to the original 500mA, but that's no biggie).

The PROBLEM is ... the USB power (and thus, the fan) stays on when I put the laptop into sleep mode (suspend-to-RAM). Hibernate obviously turns off the fan, but I'd rather not have to hibernate every time I want to take the computer somewhere, especially since I don't want to have to enter my length TrueCrypt password 5-10 times a day. :~

I've already checked the Device Manager, and Windows is set to disable USB ports as it deems necessary to save power.

Any ideas here? Full specs are in my profile.


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Shawn Langley Mar 14, 2009, 05:35am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
In the bios can you set to S1 suspend? If i'm correct its a lower level of sleep so it may have no effect but its worth a try.

Also isn't there a jumper usually on the mainboard to disable USB in standby? (then again your on a laptop so scratch that)

Try disabling wake up from USB input in bios, allowing the machine to turn off those ports although you have already done that in windows? Or even pull your power from elsewhere that is switched IE the DVD's power supply would be hard to tap.....

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 14, 2009, 12:39pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
The BIOS options are pretty bare, nothing like that in there. :(

What I'm looking at now is the VGA port for an external monitor (that I never use). It's RIGHT next to the fan, so I wouldn't have to run wiring very far, and it has the optional pin 9 which has a +5V output. Pin 10 is a ground. I already tested it externally with my multimeter and it cut's the power there during sleep.

The question is, does anybody know how much current it can provide? USB I knew could handle up to 500mA. The fan itself normally draws 400mA, after I've added the resistors it's under 200mA. Could the VGA port +5V handle that?

Shawn Langley Mar 15, 2009, 10:32am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
I cant say i'm not guessing....but I wouldn't personally attempt it VGA ports to me don't ring any bells of powering things only transmitting a signal so I would guess no. Also the fact that its closely linked directly to a major component (the GPU) would put me off unless you could find it out for sure it could cope.

I would recommend you try source power off things that were designed to deliver power in the first place...ie USB or power for the inverter or DVD which are intended to have load on them. Even if you have to route more wire It wouldn't be taking a big risk in damaging the precious.

Or if your feeling really adventurous take a multimeter and poke around a few mosfet's and a ground point to draw power from them, I did when installing a touch screen on an EEEPC and various other internal peripherals and it stood up very well 4 in total running of that one mosfet.

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Shawn Langley Mar 15, 2009, 10:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Also id like to mention its a completely different port but I wasn't able to suck more than a couple of mA from a parallel port once before it burnt out a while while back lol

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Shawn Langley Mar 15, 2009, 10:44am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Also id like to mention its a completely different port but I wasn't able to suck more than a couple of mA from a parallel port once before it burnt out a while while back lol

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 15, 2009, 05:07pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 15, 2009, 05:53pm EDT

 
>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
I just hooked my multimeter up via a USB cable to the port where I soldered in the fan, and it says it's using 670mA! Wouldn't this normally cause a voltage drop? The voltage at the port is still 5.00V.

Not to mention, how can a 400mA fan with added resistors draw 670mA?

EDIT: I have 4 USB ports, 2 on the left and 2 on the right. I think the two on each side share a common +5V line with eachother. On the left side (the fan is wired on the right side), I plugged in the multimeter and it registered 0mA. When I plugged in my flash drive into the other port (on the same left side), it went to 500mA (even though I know the drive itself only uses about 200mA). Why would this be?

That might make some sense, since 670mA - 500mA = 170mA, which is where the fan should be ...

Or is something else going on ...

Shawn Langley Mar 15, 2009, 06:50pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
You say your measuring the amps by hooking up a meter on a USB cable plugged into the same port the fan is drawing from?

This will work for voltage (measuring the circuit in parallel to the fan) but if i'm not mistake to take a current (mA) reading it will need to be in series with the fan so you need cut one of the wires and have one of the cables run through the ammeter (in series).... it makes sense in my head if it doesn't written down lol That should explain your funky figures and more than likely your USB can provide over 500mA it would just be stressing the components.

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 15, 2009, 07:36pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Ah, that makes sense. I'll open her up and test it in series.

Thanks for all your help so far, Shawn. :_)

Mar 18, 2009, 05:08pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 18, 2009, 05:10pm EDT

 
>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Well ...

I rigged her up to the VGA port's +5V line just to give it a go. The voltage shot down to under +4.5V as soon as the fan kicked in (even at only 100mA), and sometimes the voltage wouldn't come on at all during boot. So I said fux that.

Then I said to myself, "hey old bean, you can use your internal USB header," which is supposed to be used only for the optional Bluetooth module (which I have), but can be controlled by the BT button on the outside. Since Bluetooth shuts off with the button, the fan could then too! Yipee!

Well, while using the multimeter to find out if it was +3.3V or +5V, I shorted it :X ... I f**king sent the voltage to the data-in line. Little poof of smoke and ... ohs**ts. OH SH*TS!

So I ended up rigging the fan back up the way it was (to the normal USB port). The laptop luckily still works, there is just no power from that little internal port anymore. The data lines still work on it though! So I soldered up the Bluetooth power to USB as well. :P Both work fine.

I probably wouldn't have liked having the fan be controlled by the switch anyway. If I was doing something with a heavy CPU load and somebody came by and disabled Bluetooth, my computer could overheat massively ... :~ lol ...

So now I'll just have to learn to Hibernate all the time. At least my temps are soooo much better now (idle/full load used to be about 55C/65C, now its about 40C/55C). And I don't have the annoying as hell sound of the fan constantly spinning up and down.

One last question (if you haven't closed the tab yet) ...

If I have the fan running while the computer is in sleep mode, and I put my computer in my carrying case, will that harm the fan?

And if anybody does figure out how to disable USB power during sleep, I'd still like to hear it. :_)

Mar 18, 2009, 06:13pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
USB device power states (source: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms793244.aspx):
* D0 - The working state. The device is fully powered.
* D1/D2 - The intermediate sleep states. These states allow the device to be armed for remote wakeup..
* D3 - The deepest sleep state. Devices in state D3 cannot be armed for remote wakeup.

System states (source:http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2007/01/10/all-about-sys...tes-s0-s5/):
* S0 the ON state: The system is completely operation, fully powered and completely retains the context.
* S1 the Sleep state: The system consumes less power than S0 state. All Hardware & Processor context is maintained.
* S2 the Sleep state: The system consumes less power than S1 state. Processor loses power and processor context and contents of the cache are lost.
* S3 the Sleep state: The system consumes less power than S2 state. Processor & Hardware context, cache contents, and chipset context are lost. The system memory is retained.
* S4 the Hibernate state: The system consumes the least power compared to all other sleep states. The system is almost at an OFF state, expect for a trickle power. The context data is written to hard drive (disk)and there is no context retained.
* S5 the OFF state:The system is in a shutdown state and the system retains no context. Note that in power state S4 the system can restart from the context data stored on the disk, but in S5 the system requires a reboot.


From my USB Power state mappings in Device Manager:
* S0 -> D0
* S1 -> D3
* S2 -> D3
* S3 -> D2
* S4 -> D2
* S5 -> D3

I want USB to be in D3 when in S3 sleep ... can this be changed?

Shawn Langley Mar 19, 2009, 04:15am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
I'm not sure about remapping it that's a little further than I know off the top of my head lol Other than ticking/unticking the appropriate settings in windows to allow windows to put various devices to sleep I think your stuck if your bios is limited and wont let your disable allowing devices to bring the PC out of standby ect.....

I'm still recommending drawing power from your DVD drive it wouldn't be very difficult and its a sure fix to do exactly what you need.

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Shawn Langley Mar 19, 2009, 04:18am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Also I cant see it hurting the fan in your case too much....unless it was a really tight bag covering the vents so much so the fan would be straining to move air around, also it'd be slowly sucking power im not sure that's going to be very useful battery life wise lol

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 19, 2009, 11:19am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 19, 2009, 11:49am EDT

 
>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Well it would only be in the bag in S3 for short trips (less than 10 minutes) where I want to get across campus and not have to do the whole hibernate thing. I'm going to use hibernation most of the time.

As far as the DVD drive, I looked at that, but I couldn't make heads or tails of the connector (well, I was just looking at the solder points on the 'top' of the motherboard). What's a safe way of finding a +5V line in there?

Here's a picture of the solder points for the DVD burner (crappy because I cropped it from an overview picture I took of the motherboard):
http://i44.tinypic.com/rjmnuq.jpg

Although I'm kind of getting used to hibernation, so I might just leave it how it is. :_)

Shawn Langley Mar 19, 2009, 12:31pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 19, 2009, 12:32pm EDT

 
>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
http://pinouts.ru/DiskCables/cdrom_40to50_pinout.shtml

Lets see if you can follow this lol there should be a 50pin connector on your motherboard around 3cm long and 5mm high that goes into the back of the optical drive and then somehow translates to the solder points on your board....You could probably figure out which pin is 1 and then follow the patten over to the other side finding the 40+ pins

BUT looking at the pinout there's 5 +5 and 5 ground or so next to each other on one side of the connector so basically grab a meter and on one side of the PC trace/solder points measure randomly till you find two points almost next to each other that provides the 5+ your after! I hope you understand my very random way of doing it lol

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 19, 2009, 12:43pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Shawn Langley Mar 19, 2009, 09:31am PDT
however there's two rows on the 50pin and you have 3 rows

There's actually 4 rows on mine, with 50 pins total.

I don't know if you can see it, but there are two pin labels (numbers 47 and 49) on the right hand side in this picture ... would pink be 47 and blue be 49? If so, where is 48? :~
http://i44.tinypic.com/296kile.jpg

I'm kinda wary of the pin labels on this motherboard at all, since the pin labels for the VGA port were totally wrong. :(

Shawn Langley Mar 19, 2009, 04:44pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Alas you noticed my mess up quickly my good sir!

As to what each of the pins relate to on your motherboard solder joints I'm afraid I couldn't tell you it depends on what the connector is built like but it will be in a rough sequence of 1 on one side going over to 50 on the other its just a matter of getting a volts meter and testing them for a 5v till you find the right pins! or looking closely at the connector and visualising where pin 1 on the connector is and where it ends up connecting to the board if you get my meaning....I sure don't lol

Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.
Mar 20, 2009, 01:05pm EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Mar 20, 2009, 01:09pm EDT

 
>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
Well, based on the label for 47 and 49 being right next to eachother, I can't really tell what is going on.

I added the pink and blue color to those two pins in the image:
- if pink is 47 (as labeled) and
- if blue is 49 (as labeled)
... then where is 48? Kind of hard to figure out the sequence.

That along with the fact that the labels for the VGA pinout were completely wrong makes me a bit nervous to go poking around and possibly fry something as I did my Bluetooth header. :( I'm lucky the data lines still work on that so I can at least still use my Bluetooth.

Shawn Langley Mar 21, 2009, 04:01am EDT Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: USB power stays on during sleep
The connector between the drive and the board does it look like this at all? (50pin JAE I think it was called)
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8242/25102.jpg

Just pulled a laptop apart to see if the connector is how I remember and it wasn't, my internal DVD drives (checked 3) all had 2 rows of pins not 4 as i'd thought they did so I'm assuming you have some sort of non standard connector or have a small board inbetween that converts the pins/connector from the board into the JAE connector for the drive it may be screwed on the back of the drive looking something like
http://idecf.com/images/small/SLOA031.jpg

Ring any bells? Also I tested the JAE connector and was able to find the right pins and it appears its the standard interface for an internal optical drive which is what im asking =P


Having voices in your head is normal. Listening to them, common. Arguing, acceptable. However, when you lose the argument, you're in trouble.

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