hi,
initially wanted to cool e8400 and 4870 on a 3x120 rad, going forward though want to add another 4870 soon, and then i thought i might as well be cooling the chipset too, else i'd have to prob have a small annoying fan on it's heatsink. for the four items what, if anything, would i need for good cooling. using Laing pump (higher vol. one) & swiftech mcr320-qp, med speed fans.

at this point do i add another rad to the same loop, like maybe that swiftech add-on for dual rads?

or, do i add another pump with a separate loop, and would this use the same 3x120 rad?

starting off with just the chipset added, so cpu-gpu-chipset, do i need to add anything?

thanks,
df

i think the stackable mcr320 qp is a good idea. if you have enough room i would use a second triple rad and make a second loops.
if you want to save a little bit, i would at least add a 120 rad to the loop.
why am i saying that? because it's a bit difficult to make two loops with the stackable rad as they sit so close to each other.
i guess you going with D5/MCP655 pump
the danger den DD-CPX Pro is also a good pump, quiet and half the price
in a dual loop setup this pump can work well

BoT said:

thanks- so, ideally i would run two independent loops? where can you put 2nd rad, it seems like it would be hard to mount on case, save for the mcr320 stackable, or the koolance topside rad w/ all that shrouding, etc, that's expensive though.

yeah, it's hard enough to just swing one pump, etc, along with all the other crap. i was going to use laing ddc/mcp355 pump, prob w/ different top on it, actually bitspower has a res that fits on top of the top, it looks pretty cool, i thought it came with top but it doesn't, that would have been a good deal. so anyway I like the idea of being able to add the 2nd res to existing loop, after i add the other gpu, if it was enough cooling power. incidentally do you know if those use two sets of fans, or just one set of 3 sandwiched between them?

the bay res i was thinking of getting, another bitspower, has extra holes, if i were to make 2 loops, would i use same res, or would they be totally separate?

that said, what do i actually need for a res, volume wise? if i were to have two loops, i would prob add a couple of those pump top res's, they come in either 40ml (78mL actual), or 80mL (~110 actual), could i just use the shorties?

with two loops, if i had just the cpu, or cpu/chipset, would it still need a tripl rad? the 2 gpu's would be generating a lot more heat.

ultimately i'd prob like to add 2nd rad to swiftech rad for dual tripl w/ one loop, that is if the dual loop setup isn't a lot better, i'd prefer to not have to drop for another loop, it may be a while before i do that though, so who knows....

thanks for the help,
df

i would not mix koolance parts with other aftermarket parts unless you know for sure they will fit and work with your setup.

you can still mount a regular rad on top. it's a little more modding involved.
there are several different ways to do it.
1. you drill 120mm holes in the top of you case and mount the fans to it and then the rad on top.
2. you can use spacers or shrouds and mount them to the top of the case and then mount the fans and rad on top.

you could also, if you have a steardy case, mount it in the back. just like the stackable just with a extra shroud in between to increase the spacing, then you can move the tubes around the first rad.

it is not uncommon to split a single loop into two and then rejoin them at the end. i am not a friend of the idea and see no gain in it.
a complete seperate loop with it's own pump, res, rad, etc is a better solution imo.
a res is not required and does not much to help your cooling. a res is good to ensure that your pump, under "no" circumstances, will not run dry. if you use a smaller res then you just have to check a little more frequent on the water levels. swiftech also has rad's with res included. one way to circumvent the res situation.

if you keep your setup with a single card, a single loop with a tri rad and maybe an added single rad would be plenty. the second vid card however makes quiet a difference.

XSPC has also very nice and good performing res pumptops for the mcp355

if you give a little more information on your specs i could make some more exact recommendations

Dont bother.Your system doesnt need it.Been there done that.It wasnt worth the hassel.

BoT said:

i have what's in my sig, then plan is:
swiftech mcr320
swiftech mcp355
acrylic pump top, prob xspc
either Bitspower 5.25" Bay Reservoir, or Bitspower 80mm Water Tank Z-Multi 803 - Dual G1/4" (saw that xspc all in one res pump-top, that would be a bit cheaper)
Alphacool NexXxoS X2 Bold Highflow Socket 775 cpu block
swiftech mcw60-4870
(maybe x48 koolance universal chipset block, prob save for phase II though) thing is.... i kind of thermal epoxied my chipset heatsink to chipset, for various reasons. i remember removing it from something smaller at one point, and it wasn't that bad, it's not like regular epoxy, idk how it would do with chipset though.

that bay res has multiple holes, what about running two pumps to the mcr320+stackable rad. that's what you were saying had no real gain though? even with the two rads stacked? is that a flow issue?

in the case of two separate loops, prob would be better to get the pump top res's....

thanks a lot for the help,
df

I like the idea of two seperate loops... 1.) for CPU and chipset and 2.) for dual gpu. Reason I pick this is because if you have everything in one big loop..... I think it would be harder to extract the heat from the water, even with two radiators, than if you were extrating heat from two seperate loops... Also, if you decide to OC...... you will start to run out of heat capacity with a single loop... down side is that a dual water cooling system is going to be much harder to put together... To make it easier, you might wanna get a new case, a full tower...

the swiftech stackable rad is meant to be a paralelle rad setup. both rads are sandwiching a row of fans. water goes in one and has a pass thru to the second, same on the other side, the water of both rads flows back together.
unless you get some extra spacing between the rads you won't be able to use those in a dual loop config.

the bay res sounds good but the ones that sit right on top of the pump are better. direct access to water, the pump doesn't have to pull it out of the bay.
also the xspc pumptops also received pretty good reviews in regards to pressure drops and flow rate. the 40ml top should be plenty.

what kind of tubing and fittings will you be using and what typ of coolant?

BoT said:

oh yeah- was going to use feser one non-conductive clear/uv blue. it seems like a good coolant but i don't really know. i read something about using distilled water, and adding a bioagent, and i think you'd need to add an anti-corrosive too, i can't remember what they said about uv or dye. i'm not really into having lots of led's and different colored liquids, and all that, so i got the clear, my case is fairly monolithic. i wanted to get the uv though so if i wanted to i could show off the water cooling system and case on occasion with some led's on a rocker switch. plus i read that it's good to have uv reactive fluid to check for tiny leaks.

primochill primoflex pro lrt clear tubing, 3/8" ID

for fittings i'm using the standard barb fittings they have as an option with the various components.

what i meant was using the stacked rads, and splitting the outlet to go to different loops on different pumps, then joining the lines to go back to radiator. this seems like it would effectively be like 2 pumps and 2 rads on separate loops, except idk if there is a flow consideration here, with 2 x 3/8" ID loops drawing from one 3/8" line, it seems like i've seen pictures of setups like that.

yeah i like the xspc top, and they had performance info on it too, it does really well. those are cool for 2 loops also, i could mount them right next to each other in bottom of case. they also come with the top, or are just part of the top, so end up being less money overall.

I guess if i need to do two separate loops, and splitting the lines off of dual rads won't work, i'll just start with cpu and chipset, otherwise if i do one gpu first i'd just have to re-configure when i add other loop. i think i would set up one of those topside koolance rads, with the vent adapter, maybe i'll just do that first....

idk if i mentioned earlier in this post, but i kind of epoxied my heatsink to the northbridge with AS thermal epoxy. not sure how well that is going to come off, or if it will. i've removed it from something smaller before, and it wasn't too bad. i wouldn't want to scratch the chipset or anything removing the epoxy, if there's still residual epoxy left on chip, i would prob just epoxy again so everything bonds well. that would work well, right? then that can just stay on there, can't think of why i'd need to remove it.

thanks again,
df

edit: follow up qstn- what about one of the more expensive radiators, like xspc, or feser, how much difference are they going to make for the price?
thx

the reason why i oppose splits in loops because it can cause back pressure in one of the two loops if the pressure in the two loops is not exactly the same. really doesn't matter where the split is.

the feser coolant is good and i would recommend it if this is the first time for you or you are still consider yourself a beginner. it really prevents harm to your componants in case of a spill. many use distilled water as you already heard with either biocide or siler coils.
these two are commonly used:
Petra'sTech PT_Nuke
http://www.petrastechshop.com/pepcobi1.html
and
Silver KillCoils by iandh
http://www.petrastechshop.com/sikibyia.html

an anti corrosive agent is only neccessary if you mix metals in a loop/blocks.
like alu with copper or copper with nickle, or any combination of those. i would recommend not to mix metals and stay away from the agent,

if you do cool the NB block then you don't have to worry about the current cooler with the epoxy because you would remove it anyway

you could also use a 320 rad and 220 rad and sandwich those. this would make it a little easier with the two loop config.

If you are going about adding multiple radiators and cooling all components possible with a single loop..... this is alot of backpressure... you need a strong pump that will keep the flow rates up.... also, since you may want to keep the foot print down to a minimum... you might wanna consider a pump/tank combo type where the pump is attached on or in the tank....

take a look at this unit.. it has a 600L/h rating.. and it will be quiet - http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=pro...ts_id=4488

I have 2 seperate loops.

Res/Pump -> 120mm RAD -> GPU -> Res/Pump.....

Res/Pump -> 240mm RAD -> CPU -> Res/Pump...

Chipset, well I couldn't be bothered tbh. I left as is. I have a wee fan attached to
help with cooling. Plus, I have 2x120mm Fans in front of tower, and 2 for extract
(they are parallel to each other covering MoBo). Also 3x120mm Fans for the
Rads.

Initially, I had 1 loop supplying the CPU & GPU, and temps were not much less
due to the loop running from CPU to GPU, so there wasn't enough time to get
the loop to cool enough. My OC has been 3.60GHz since the 1st loop, and now
on the dual loop. Temps on the dual loop are specifically CPU, 18c-22c, and under
stress (Prime/Crysis, etc which are typically demanding, mid 30's to 40c)
One the single loop, stress temps were 58-62c so that's a dramatic drop IMO.
I'm on x9 Mulit at FSB 1600MHz, so there's more stress than say x8 multi, and this's
been pretty constant.

As for bleeding/purging the system, I've only changed once, and that was 1.5yrs of
cooling. I actually only needed to reapply fresh AS5.

My whole loop is inside my tower (I have the Thermaltake Mozart TX) it's about the
size of a conventional fridge anyways haha!!

On the subject of the pump/reservoirs, well, I have 2 of the XSPC 12V X2O Compact 400,
which's a pump&res in one. It's lived up to it's hype, and does the job beautifully.
I'm glad I bought these, as the conserved the space I had!!!

G.G's comments about the pump are correct, if you decide to have more than 240mm
Rads, then at least 600ltr ph are the minimum you can go. You want a fast pump
going around the system. I suggest 240mm Rad for your cpu, and 120mm Rad for your
GPU. Your chipset, you can connect with either.

in my search for the single loop solution, i found this:
check out this bad boy: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=pro...s_id=21622
i think i could put 5 fans on it and be pretty styling. i figured out how i could mount it on right side panel too, with some rad brackets, and run the tubing right through the side, i don't think it would be too bad mounted like that.
what do you guys think?

thx

i was going to use the 600L/h laing pump with xspc tank and top.

thats a lot of rad, should be interesting.
if you can afford it and are up for the mods, i say go for it.
at least the 600L/h pump, that should do.

TamTheBam said:

Thanks for all your help everybody

this is something i was wondering about with the dual loops, using smaller rads. i still like the idea of the single large rad, if it provides sufficient cooling, it seems simpler, less things to break or leak, and would fit better inside the case. the outside fit is questionable so far though, routing through the side would make it extremely difficult to remove that side panel, which does need to happen sometimes. if i did that i'd have to see if it were possible to leave an extra bend in water lines to have some play when i take that panel off, like 6-7" of extra tubing, that's the only way i can think to do it. i'm not totally sold on it though, more people seem to have experience with the dual loop setup, plus with that i don't have to put up all the money at once, i can spread it out, and not do both at the same time, although the dual would be more overall.

the gpu gets a lot hotter than cpu wouldn't i need at least equal on that?
will definitely get that 2nd gpu before too long, so i assume i'd need one 360 rad for those, but then for the cpu/chipset i wouldn't need another 360, i could just get a 240, or a 120??

if using a smaller rad, or even just less stuff on a 360 would i then be able to use the lower lph Laing pump? if i had two running it would def be better for noise, from what i understand of those pumps.

that xspc pump looks pretty cool, as far as for having 2 pumps. i always wondered before about the submerged pump and how well they work, and how reliable they are.

thx,
df

First off, you have to remember that liquid cooling is a more efficient at cooling.
The heat is physically being removed away from the source. Air cooling's just
constantly extracting/blowing away heat which spreads. Test it out by removing
your side panel and check the differences with Coretemp as an example.

Which brings me to the GPU. Take a look at the fans on GPU's. I'm surprised they
can cause a swirl of air never mind get rid of heat. So typically, the liquid cooling block
which covers 3/4's of your GPU pcb, is doing 10x more than what the heatsink/fan
that comes with the gpu as standard. Plus you have 120mm rad which hold a hefty amount
of liquid, plus the liquid in the tubing loop, plus the reservoir. That's nearly a litre of
coolant. I don't think you took that into consideration lol. 120mm Rad is more than
sufficient for a GPU. The GPU is constant for temps since your display is constant.
Just having the screen idle but with wallpaper and icons scattered all over your
screen is straining the GPU 24/7, where as the CPU idle, is like
Core 0 =11%, Core 1 =14% Core 2 =8%; Core 3=17% and will sit at a steady low temp.
My GPU, which's OC'd as far as it will go, and has been since 2007 is 42c Idle with
the liquid cooling and with a constant OC is good enough for me Not sure what
the temps would be with out OC for GPU i'd have to let that test over night for it to
cool enough.

another thing to the big rad you posted and pumps, the more and larger equipment you use in the loop, the stronger the pump needs to be.
so even if you pack everything in one loop, the 3x3 rad, the dual gpu, the cpu and chipset, the mcp355 will not play along with it at all. even a mcp655 had a good time working on keeping up the flow. rad, gps blocks and chipset blocks are all restrictive in nature. better products will try to keep this restrictiveness to a minimum but it's still considerable.
a cpu block usually like high flow. if you go with a single loop, make sure that you don't load it up too heavy. if you decide to go with a 360 and add a 240 or 120, they should be low restrictive rads. it's worth the extra bucks.

a 360+360 loop would be optimal i think but a smaller second rad should do. all depends on the products you use and the quality

try to keep the loop short

another option to mount the big rad you listed would be to mountit on the opposite side of the panel you usually use to access the motherboard.
you could use quick disconnect fiitings to ensure that you still be able to remove the backside panel as well. i don't really like to recommend this version as the quick disconnects also add restriction.

BoT said:

yeah, that's what i was actually thinking of, the back side, but i still have to get in there to get at the screws to move any bay devices around, inc hdd's.

so, i take it the mcr320 is not a low restrictive rad?

are there any other options for mounting second rad, aside from koolance top? not sure what they are using for rad in there, and i think the bracket is obscenely priced at least where i saw it, it was like 80 bucks, just for the adapter to put the koolance rad on top of. you know what though, it might not be as pretty, but i could use those xspc rad brackets, which cost like 10 bucks or less, and still mount it on top, just with an open space between it and the case, could be cool actually, and i think you can buy the shrouding separate and use whatever rad you want, or not at all, i doubt it does that much in the way of airflow, the fans are against the rad anyway, does look sharper though.

so what about pumps- if i'm doing the dual loop, can i get the lower voltage laing pump for each one, instead of the 12v, does it need it at that point? that or the xspc sub-pump mentioned earlier, that's 400 lph, prob around the same as 9.5v Laing pump. two of the 12v's would be a little noisy, right?

my first instinct with the inside res pump is that it's not a good idea, but i don't know any real facts about them. is this a good (reliable) way to go, does it matter? i read so many references to the laing pump, i don't want to be inadvertently biased.

df

I don't want to add any more stuff into the mix here, but....
i was looking at the Feser X-treme rads, not the "Monsta"'s which are like 300 bucks, but their regular extreme line, i guess, idfk. anyway i was reading about them on another forum and read some pretty glowing reviews, i'm thinkin that 2 of those could be good, based on what info i've gotten. i am overclocked pretty good on my e8400 -> 4.0G but i've got that on air now, with slightly high, but decent temps, it idles around 40/41, i'm not giving it that much more voltage, the vcore is ~1.38725. i have a themaltake big typhoon, idk it's supposed to be a good cooler, but i've had mediocre results with it, and it's so heavy it's hard to tell when you've got even pressure along the surface of chip, you have to tighten the top a little more, because of all the downward force, it's a pita afaic, and you can't get at anything in the case, no room.

so yeah, dual, dual feser X-tremes, anyone have xperience with feser rads?

& pumps for dual setup- 300/400 lph or 600 lph (each)?

thanks
df

No the pumps are not noisy at all. My case fans make more noise!!

So have you looked at how much all this cooling system gonna run you????? Go ahead and price it up?


Radiator or r's
Pump or p's (traditional or submerged/tank combo)
tank
cpu block
gpu block or k's
chipset block
Hoses
barbs
clamps


curious as to the cost of the type of setup you are looking at.