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  Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together. 
 
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David Pantich Feb 01, 2013, 03:52pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Hello,

This probably goes under "the more you know, the less you know" category. I thought I knew what I was doing as I set up my home network but I found out something that makes me think that I've created some of my own problems.

In my many attempts to get good wireless coverage in my two story house (floor plan here) I've tried several different routers and locations in the house of those routers. Some of that is documented in this post.

Bottom line, I now have a <a href="http://www.asus.com/Networking/RTN56U/">ASUS RT-N56U</a> Router. It is connected through a <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOHO-BASIC-HUB208A-NO-CABLES-ADAPTERS-...t;>SOHO BASIC HUB208A</a> to a <a href="http://www.motorola.com/us/consumers/SBG6580-SURFboard%C2%AE-e...t;Motorola SURFboard SBG6580</a> which was provided by Time Warner Cable.

While talking to Time Warner level 3 support last night, they told me that the kind of problems I'm experiencing (dropping connections intermittently, weak signal) could be result of "daisy chaining routers". He said you should only have one router and everything else should be a "switch".

He also said that even though the Motorola has 4 ethernet ports I should only have ONE cable coming out of it to a switch that then should have cables going to the Asus and all the wired PCs.

I don't understand why I can't use all 4 ports of the Motorola. Anyone else know why?

Having only one router kind of makes sense if each one down the line is just doing the same work as the main one. The problem is, I don't know what to do to make the Asus act as just a switch. If I do, how will it be able to process the wireless requests?

Also, what, if anything, do I need to do to the SOHO to make sure it's not acting as a router but just as a switch?

Thanks for any help!!


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David Pantich Feb 01, 2013, 03:53pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
Aw crap. I guess I put those links in wrong. Sorry about that. How do I include links in a post without it looking that ugly?

David Pantich Feb 01, 2013, 03:54pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
Oh, and I forgot to include link to original post. D'uh. Long week!!

http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/78130/

Dr. Peaceful Feb 01, 2013, 05:51pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 01, 2013, 06:07pm EST

 
>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
For links, don't use HTML tags, just type the URL. HWA can't process HTML tags in the body of post.

To make the second router to become an access point (not just a switch), you need to disable DHCP in that router, so it does not give out IPs to clients. The first router should be the only DHCP server. The following are more detail instructions.

If you want to use 2 routers to extend the network by -Wire-, you need to:
1. Set each router with a different IP in the same subnet (e.g. router1 = 192.168.1.1; router2 = 192.168.1.2)
2. Use the main router (in your case the Motorola modem/router) as the only DHCP server. (With IP range from 192.168.1.3 and on, for example.)
3. Disable DHCP on the second router (in your case the Asus router) and connect by wire to the main router, LAN port to LAN port. (Don't use the WAN port on second router.)
4. Either disable the wireless on the first router, or setup two different wireless SSIDs for the 2 routers. Very important step, if they have the same SSID they may conflict with each other.
5.Only connect your computer(s) to the closest router, either by wire or by using that router's wireless SSID.

If you want to use 2 routers to extend the network -Wirelessly-, you need to:
A. Do the same as 1) and 2) above as for "by wire"
B. Disable DHCP on the second router as well, but don't need to connect wire to main router.
C. Both routers MUST have wireless repeater capability, with the main router acting as the WDS host to the second router. Otherwise, you can't do this!
D. Setup the second router as wireless repeater bridge to the main router. Consult with your routers' manuals for instructions on this, since different routers may have different procedures for setting this up.
E. If all goes well, the 2 routers would be bridged together wirelessly and all share the same SSID. So you can use 1 SSID throughout the whole house.

David Pantich Feb 01, 2013, 08:56pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: wireless repeater recommendations?
I had already asked TWC to disable the wireless on the Motorola. The ASUS has a wire in the LAN port. That wire goes to the SOHO BASIC HUB208A and from there directly to the Motorola.

OK, so I went in and disabled DHCP on the ASUS. Rebooted it and now it isn't recognized by any of my devices. They all say there is no wireless network available. I can't get into its admin console even when I connect my laptop to the ASUS directly with an ethernet cable.

I tried pressing the reset button per the instructions in the manual. It goes through all the steps described in manual but when it's all done, I still don't see a wireless network nor can I connect to it with my hardwired laptop.

Help! I'm stuck.

Dr. Peaceful Feb 02, 2013, 12:43am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 02, 2013, 01:43am EST

 
>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
David Pantich said:
I had already asked TWC to disable the wireless on the Motorola. The ASUS has a wire in the LAN port. That wire goes to the SOHO BASIC HUB208A and from there directly to the Motorola...

Unless TWC has locked your router/modem somehow or use their own firmware in there, you should be able to get into the admin interface and set your own settings. I've mentioned the defaults and link the manual in the other thread before. The hub above is not really necessary, you can connect the Asus directly to the Motorola LAN to LAN. Then use the hub on the Asus side to split the network, if you need more ports.

David Pantich said:
...OK, so I went in and disabled DHCP on the ASUS. Rebooted it and now it isn't recognized by any of my devices. They all say there is no wireless network available. I can't get into its admin console even when I connect my laptop to the ASUS directly with an ethernet cable.

I tried pressing the reset button per the instructions in the manual. It goes through all the steps described in manual but when it's all done, I still don't see a wireless network nor can I connect to it with my hardwired laptop...

Here's what I am speculating what's happening. The Asus has a default IP of 192.168.1.1 ( http://support.asus.com/FAQ/Detail.aspx?SLanguage=en&no=89...;m=RT-N56U ). Originally your computer is getting its IP from the Asus, so it's in subnet 192.168.1.x. The Motorola has a default IP of 192.168.100.1. Once you disabled the DHCP from the Asus, you are getting IP to your computer from the Motorola, so it's in subnet 192.168.100.x. Under the new subnet you won't be able to see your Asus, of course.

When you're working with a router, the best way to do it, is to first unplug all other network wires. Make sure your computer is the only network device connected to the router. Set your computer to a static IP in the same subnet as the router. Use instructions here http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/19249/how-to-assign-a-static-ip...windows-7/ , but don't worry about default gateway and DNS settings, just set IP and subnet mask. Then use the router's IP to get into admin interface via a browser. Do all the setting changes in there and save it, before you reconnect it back into the network.

Do the following. Disconnect both routers from the network. Set your computer at static IP of 192.168.100.3. Go into your Motorola at 192.168.100.1, set an IP range from 192.168.100.3 to 192.168.100.254, reboot. Set your computer to static IP of 192.168.1.2, now you will be able to get into the Asus with IP 192.168.1.1. Once you're in there, set your Asus to 192.168.100.2 instead, disable DHCP, set the SSID (if not already), and reboot. Reset your computer to "obtain an IP address automatically". Reconnect the routers back into network. Now you should be able to have internet, and able to get into both routers from the network. (This will cover step 1 to 3 in my previous post above.)

David Pantich Feb 04, 2013, 09:35pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: wireless repeater recommendations?
TWC did lock it. What a mess that is! The lesson I've learned from dealing with TWC is "if you don't get the right answer from support, call back again. And again. And again. Eventually, you'll get someone who knows what the heck they're talking about!"

Anyway, the ASUS finally did reboot correctly. I got in to the admin console. I disabled DHCP, set its IP to 192.168.0.2 and changed it to be a switch. It automatically rebooted and now, once again, I can't get back into the admin console.

The IP of the Motorola is 192.168.0.1 so that's why I set the ASUS IP to 192.168.0.2. I've tried 192.168.0.2 all the way through 12 and none of them brought up the admin console.

I could just reset the router again but I am curious what I did wrong. Any ideas?

Sorry to be so dense here!


Dr. Peaceful Feb 05, 2013, 12:22am EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
David Pantich said:
TWC did lock it. What a mess that is!

Bastards! I've dealt with both Verizon and Comcast before, neither of them lock their routers. They shouldn't be, because it should be the customer's freedom to manage their internal network. They can do whatever they want from outside house to the router, since they own the network. But what's behind the router is none of their business! When they have the capability to manage your router, your IPs, your wifi, they have the capability to access your computers!!

David Pantich said:
Anyway, the ASUS finally did reboot correctly. I got in to the admin console. I disabled DHCP, set its IP to 192.168.0.2 and changed it to be a switch. It automatically rebooted and now, once again, I can't get back into the admin console.

The IP of the Motorola is 192.168.0.1 so that's why I set the ASUS IP to 192.168.0.2. I've tried 192.168.0.2 all the way through 12 and none of them brought up the admin console.

Here's what I theorized. Since you can't access the Motorola, you can't change the IP range. It probably goes from 192.168.0.2 to 192.168.0.254, that means it can assign a PC with an IP from within that range. If it happens that it assigns your PC with 192.168.0.2, same time you set your Asus router also as 192.168.0.2, you've got yourself an IP conflict!

Ok, forget all the steps I mentioned before. Let's do it a bit differently this time. Let's setup so that you use your Asus as the main router, and use the Motorola only for the role of modem.
1. Reset your Asus to default. Set your PC to say 192.168.1.2 and go into the router admin. Make sure it's back to IP 192.168.1.1 with DHCP enabled. Set the SSID and any other settings to your desire. Reboot.
2. Now attached an ethernet cable from the LAN port of the Motorola to the WAN port of the Asus. Remember it's the WAN port this time, on the N56U, it's the white ethernet port. This will enable your Asus to serve as the DHCP server.
3. Do not use your Motorola for any computer by wire or wireless. Connect all computers from now on to the Asus.

Your Asus has quite a bit of features to optimize Wifi coverage, including dual band (2.4Ghz and 5.0Ghz). So it should provide good enough wireless coverage in the house. Make sure your PCs can use wireless N, if not upgrade them to an N adapter. If even after upgrade, the coverage is still weak, then you should look into wireless extenders.

David Pantich Feb 05, 2013, 01:29pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: wireless repeater recommendations?
Dr. řaz said:
Bastards!


HA. Yes they are but the situation isn't as bad as I painted it.

They didn't lock me out of the whole admin console. Just the ability to turn wireless on and off. They say that it's turned off by default so it won't "confuse" their customers and interfere with other wireless routers customers may have. I guess I can see that but once I called them to ask them to turn it on, you'd think they could give me ability to do it myself from then on. Nooooo!

So, given that I *can* get into the Motorola admin interface, what do you suggest I do there to help me be able to also get into the ASUS interface?

Dr. Peaceful Feb 07, 2013, 02:24pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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Edited: Feb 07, 2013, 02:25pm EST

 
>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
All the instructions are up there. All depends on which router you want to use as the main router. If you want to use Asus as main, follow instructions in my last post above. If you want to use Motorola as main, follow instructions in my 2nd last post and before. Good luck.

David Pantich Feb 07, 2013, 02:26pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: wireless repeater recommendations?
Great, Thanks. I wanted to ask before diving in and maybe messing something else up.

I really appreciate all the help!!

David Pantich Feb 24, 2013, 11:49pm EST Reply - Quote - Report Abuse
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>> Re: Routers, hubs and switches. Making them work together.
Well, I've had the Asus setup as my wireless router for awhile now. It's working great. Should have done this sooner!

Thanks everyone for all your help!


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