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  "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP 
 
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Greg Seery Jun 09, 2003, 02:49am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I just encountered "Delayed Write Failure" on drive C: (Win XP Pro)

I went back through my recent activities, and found that I had inadvertently quarantined/deleted a couple of files while using "Spybot" to remove tracking cookies, etc.

Restoring those files (identified as DSO Exploits) which were system related files seems to have immediately fixed the problem

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Richard Rynearson Jun 15, 2003, 05:40pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I recently purchased a 250Gig Western Digital drive and put it in an ADS dual link external drive kit. This drive kit connects via USB 2.0 or firewire to my computer. I also purchased an ADS USB 2.0 card to upgrade my computer to the quicker USB 2.0 standard. When I connect the external HD to my computer using the USB 2.0 cable I am able to use the HD for a minute or two before getting the "Dealyed Write Fail" bubbles being popping up and the data gets corrupted as we all are familiar with. The interesting thing, however, is that when I use the firewire link I am able to access my HD without any problems though slightly slower. I still haven't figured out what the problem is with this delayed write failure while using USB 2.0. I think it may be the drivers from Windows to support USB 2.0. Not sure.

Lar shedenhelm Jun 17, 2003, 08:34pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Well windows was right this time, on mine at least. XP would not run a chckdsk on my drive and finally refused to boot XP. I didn't figure it out until I got frustrated enough to try and reinstall and reformated.
One of my RAID 0 drives failed, Bad clusters, I guess just in the right spot and the right time. Maybe some ESD issue when I changed cards. Anyhow I broke the RAID reformated, reinstalled no problems. I knew better than use RAID 0 all was lost I wont do that again unless I can have fault tolerance.

Vadim Rapp Jun 22, 2003, 02:26am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I'm facing this same problem. Here's story.

I had RADEON 8500, and it worked fine.

Then I decided to try out RADEON 9600. It worked fine as well.

Then, I decided that I don't want 9600. Removed it and reinstalled 8500. That's when "delayed write fail" hit.

Replaced back for 9600 - works fine.

8500 - failure.

Also it seems that ATI Control Panel may be responsible. Without it, there's no failure. As soon as it is installed, the failure hits.

At some point, the failure hit as soon as I started any service. With nearly all services disabled, no failure. Then I start print spooler, or network, and here we go.

Complete mistery.

Ed R Jun 24, 2003, 05:20pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
GOT DAMN FORKING ATI CARDS.

There, I said it. It seems that the new ATI cards are the root cause of this "Delay write failure" with XP OS. I too have just upgraded my video card to an ATI and guess what started to happen "Delay wirte failure" problems.

I'd like to call ATI and take a strip off their asses but it's long distance for the $400 clamers I just shelled out for this piece ofs**t.

If anyone finds a fix, let me know so I can send it those idiots.

Ken Watson Jun 30, 2003, 02:58pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Either this error has multiple different causes (most likely) or it has nothing whatsoever to do with ATI cards.

I am not using an ATI card and have no ATI drivers installed, yet have just started experiencing this problem on my 2 months old Maxtor 120GB hdd 6Y120L0.

It has started apparently spontaneously, after having successfully so far loaded and regulalrly accessed some 20GB data. DWFs are appearing while writing the master file table ($Mft) but so far this has been recovered at subsequent boot. The drive is fortunately not my primary boot drive so the probelm has not yet been serious.

Grateful for any advice. I'm loathe to simply return the drive since having read the above I'm not at all confident the probelm actually lies with the drive itself.

Ken

Ed R Jun 30, 2003, 03:10pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Found a fix:

Data corruption may occur if the Large System Cache feature is enabled in Windows XP. This symptom does not occur on all systems. The key ingredients that lead to this symptom may include:

System Memory greater than 512 Meg. (1 gigabyte of RAM is common)
- Large NTFS disk volumes. And multiple large volumes. (60-100 gigabyte hard drives possibly in RAID arrays)
- AGP graphics with large AGP resource requirements (AGP aperture greater than default)
- Large file transfers
This problem occurs when the computer runs out of system page table entries. Windows determines (at boot time) the default number of page table entries to assign, based on the amount of system memory available. The items mentioned above all contribute to increasing the number of page table entires that Windows XP must maintain and in extreme cases the page table entries may be exhausted.


To avoid this symptom ensure the System Cache option is NOT selected for Memory usage. Use the Programs option.
- right-click on the My Computer Icon then Properties to open the System Properties dialog box

- select the Advanced Tab then the Settings button under Performance

- select the Advanced tab on the Performance options tab

- in the Memory Usage area, ensure the Programs radio button is selected

- Apply the changes and select OK


It may be possible to work around this issue by increasing the value for page table entries, as follows,

WARNING: Please make a backup copy of your Registry before proceeding. If you use Registry Editor incorrectly, you may cause serious problems that may require you to reinstall your operating system. Use Registry Editor at your own risk.

Launch the Registry Editor. Select the Start Button then Run. Type in regedit.exe and select OK.

Locate the SystemPages value under the following key in the registry:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management

Double-click the SystemPages value. The Edit DWORD Value dialog box appears.

Enter the maximum value (0xFFFFFFFF) , and then click OK.

Quit Registry Editor.

NOTE: 0xFFFFFFFF is the safest value however a value greater than the default but less than the maximum may provide better results.

NOTE: Changing the VALUE from the default may decrease performance by 1-2% .

INFO-BASE# 4217

KEYWORDS: ALL Products for PC Data corruption Large System Cache Windows XP

Vadim Rapp Jun 30, 2003, 03:13pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
perhaps it might be a good idea to talk to Maxtor. Maxtor appears very frequently in this thread, so it's also a "candidate" as well as ATI. Maybe they already received calls about this problem...

Robzzz Jun 30, 2003, 09:32pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I disagree. I have always used Maxtor drives and they have never been a problem. ATI, it's documented that they do have a driver problem, but I proved to myself that even they weren't the problem all ot the time and not really in my situation when it got into it. I would just like to get Microsoft to tell me what the h*ll the error message really means any what f*ck you should do about it.

Robzzz

Ken Watson Jul 01, 2003, 07:07pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
As I posted, I don't have any ATI card or drivers installed, so that certainly isn't the problem in my case either.

By turning off write-caching on the suspect disk I can avoid the error messages - though that comes at a cost of significantly reduced performance. The disk and OS should be capable of supporting write caching.

My OS is XP with no service-packs, and the disk is formatted as an NTFS volume in one single 114GB partition. It manifests no bad clusters or other logical/physical defects (eg strange sounds).

Ken

Mike D Jul 02, 2003, 12:57pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Do not discount what has been said about ATI cards. My XP workstation has been running stably for months, with no issues whatsoever, with a Radeon 8500. As SOON as i installed the latest ATI Catalyst drivers (version 3.5) I started getting delayed write failures on both of my hard drives, and my system freezes right about at the point when the ATI control panel would be loading. Something that the new catalyst driver is doing is causing the error.

Now before anyone flames me, all I said was that it was causing the error. I did NOT say that it was the only thing that would EVER cause the error. When was the last time anyone here researched an error in my MS knowledge base? It never fails, you look up the error and they list like 8 possible causes. All I'm saying is that something the catalyst driver does makes that error occur.

Ed R Jul 02, 2003, 07:26pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Mike, it IS a known fact that ATI with their protective thinking on driver development (it's closed source) that they suck badly during certain releases. 3.5 doesn't work at all on my machine. It does weird things like causing hardware resets (it reboots my computer without notice).

ATI has a great product, but unfortunately they may fall behind the game if they don't improve their QA testing on their drivers. Right now, it's right up there in quality with LADA. Sure it works, but it does cause a lot of break downs.

And it gets even better that there are A LOT of users who experience similiar ATI product failures. Talk about biting the hand that feeds them. This is my first AND LAST ATI purchase. Ever.

Ken Watson Jul 03, 2003, 01:36pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Microsoft have some info on this here:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;330174

However, for those of us who already have the correct (80-wire) cables and have not buggered around with BIOS or registry settings, the MS advice simply amounts to this: don't enable write caching.

But since caching is enabled by default, and since it's part of the standard Windows functionality (it's not some kind of unsupported tweak) I don't find MS's advice particularly helpful or insightful. If there's nothing more to it than "don't use that feature", why is write-caching offered as a feature in the first place?

By the way, there's another thread on this board on the same subject, which I've only just discoved (I had come in via Google)
http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/2458/

And here are a couple of other links with interesting ideason delayed-write:
http://bermangraphics.com/problems/delayedwritefailure.htm
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9664
http://www.the-inquirer.com/?article=9689

Ken

Vadim Rapp Jul 03, 2003, 01:58pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
after reading of all this, it appears that there's no unique recipe, everyone is pretty much on his own. Mainly it's all spinning around ATI drivers and disk cache settings.

I would suggest that we bug Microsoft and ATI as hardly as we can. Open Help Center and open a free support incident with Microsoft. Sure thing, they will advise to disable all programs on start etc. etc., usual tech support bull, but, as far as I know MS, if multiple reports come in on the same topic, they may begin to look in it more seriosly. ATI support is also notorious for their bouncing, but again, perhaps there's some threshold number of calls that would trigger more attention. Open incidents, email send a message at http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/. The more we scream, the better our chances are. If we continue to go in circles on our own, reinstalling XP 100 times in 100 different combinations, it will go on and on.

Rick Wilson Jul 04, 2003, 12:55pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I have a Radeon 9500 Pro, and have no trouble with the Catalyst 3.5's. I have one Maxtor 40gig, which is my boot drive, and 2 Western Digitals, 40 and 80gig. I am running two sticks of 512mb Corsair XMS3200 in Dual Channel mode on an Asus A7N8X Deluxe. I have experienced the "delayed write" problem, even when I was only running 512mb in Single Channel mode.

It occurs as soon as I attempt to enable Large System Cache, and ONLY then. If I leave it at the default (Programs) I never see this error. Ever.

This is an overclocked Athlon 2400 running at 2.2ghz in synchronous mode with the multipler dropped to 11.5 and the fsb set at 192. This system is rock solid stable 24/7.

The only time I experience any problem is when I try for the Large System Cache setting, and it occurs immediately after enabling. The pop-up errors indicate massive mft corruption on ALL drives; not just the Maxtor.

It could be the Catalyst 3.5's, but its not the Maxtor.

Has anyone tried changing the cache size with a third party program, like Cacheman, and if so, did you still have the problem?

kris Carpenter Jul 04, 2003, 08:23pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I think this is a microsoft update problem, might be a security update. Will see if a rollback will help. My system has had no problems since original install with ATI video card. Have 2 maxtor drives for 3 months and no problems then after doing an update of some patches the delayed write errors started. Nothing fixed it so I removed the second drive and the errors started on a seagate scci drive that has been installed for over a year. My though is this is another in a long list of update breaking something that a hot fix fixes a few months later.

Rick Wilson Jul 05, 2003, 02:24am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
yep. That would be par for the course with M$....I have been able to use the large cache before without errors, I just can't isolate which "Hotfix" broke it, and at that time I was using an earlier version of the Catalyst driver as well. This makes for a sticky situation to unravel.

But how much performance boost can be expected from enabling the large cache anyway? I wonder if its even worth the trouble....It would be nice to compare the two settings, but after having to rebuild my system I'm not going to touch it until the cause and fix are known.

kris Carpenter Jul 05, 2003, 05:52pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Well system restore back to 4 days ago when the update was done and as I expected no errors all day. Thanks to Microsoft for the breakage and wait for the hot fix in a few months when they admit the failure. If restore not available then rebuild to sp1 should solve issue. I learned another valuable lesson, do a restore point before any microsft upgrade. Hope this helps.

Vadim Rapp Jul 05, 2003, 06:22pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Often system restore can't function after file system errors that happen during delayed write failure. I learned that the best chance is to quickly hit reset as soon as it becomes clear that delayed write failure is happening.

Eric Shock Jul 06, 2003, 12:48am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
James Robinson, I bet your PC sounds like an A/C window unit from the 1970's. LOL

I don't mean to offend, but I'm doing my best to build quieter systems than I have in the past. I'm not a gamer or an OCer, so high performance/max cooling is not that big of an issue to me. One thing (I hope the only thing) Dell has up on me is noise. Those Dimension 4000 PC's are really quiet (maybe mine would be that quiet too if it moved that slowly).


Eric Shock
Lexington, KY

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