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  "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP 
 
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afirstname alastname Oct 12, 2004, 10:12pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Bug in GetDataBack
After a day of giving myself a crash course in NTFS, I have concluded with a high degree of confidence that the problem that GetDataBack v2.31 for NTFS is having, where it reports many of my largest files as being 0 bytes long (and thus not recoverable) is due to a bug in the program, and not a problem on my drive.

Using another tool from the same company, DiskExplorer for NTFS, I confirmed my theory: Indeed, for these files in question, the Run list in the Attributes section was too long to fit into the main MFT entry, so it was placed in a new MFT entry. DiskExplorer understood this, and lets you follow the link to the other entries that have the run lists, and even DiskExplorer's own "recover" feature will save the file straightaway.

This is a big strike against an otherwise very fine-looking tool.

I'm convinced now that I have only a slight MFT corruption, and if only I could figure out what it was, I could unlock all my data again, without having to use these recovery programs to copy 250gb of data over to another drive.

Barring such a solution, I'll have to speed my process of finding a new drive and a new enclosure...not simple!

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Michael Yeang Oct 21, 2004, 09:09am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I'm a newbie to this forum, but I've got the same Delayed Write Failure experience using USB 2.0. Here's the URL to another forum where you can read about these discussions and hopefully get some useful info there.

http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=16&thread...TARTPAGE=1

I hope you can access it, otherwise I shall have to repeat the postings here.

Incidentally, I think I have solved the problem by doing these two things:
1. I changed HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControllSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\System Pages to 0xffffffff
2. In System Properties - Advanced - Performance Options - Visual Effects, I selected the option "Let Windows choose what's best for my computer" instead of "Adjust for best performance"

I'm not sure which one did the trick, but I think it worked, after one successful, error-free defrag test on the same USB hard disk with 68GB of files. Never had success before.

Scott Cheski Oct 22, 2004, 12:22am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Well, I isolated the cause of my Delayed Write Error problem. Or at least it's one of two things (I got tired of trying only 1 thing at a time). My problem was either 1) WinXP had automatically installed the wrong driver for my Promise IDE expansion card, or 2) when I reinstalled WinXP for the first time (for other reasons), it reordered my drive letters. After putting in the right driver and reording my drive letters, things appear to be working properly. Good thing, I was getting ready to do something drastic.

Michael Yeang Oct 22, 2004, 12:32am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
My post above, dated Oct 21, 2004, was not entered manually by me. I wrote it on page 6 some time ago. Somehow it appeared here by itself - wierd, huh?

Derek Chin Oct 22, 2004, 11:01pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
It seems to be there are 2 seperate issues here.

One appears to involve ATI cards, LargeSystemCache, and fixed disks - which appear to have well documented solution.

The other issue (my issue), is with external HDD enclosures. In my case, both an IOGear and ByteCC enclosure work beautifully in USB mode; I have moved 60 gigs from one to the other no problem via USB. However, attempting to move even 2 gigs of data on the FireWire connection will cause a Delay Write Failure error. Not sure what the problem is exactly, been fiddling with all kinds of settings and memory usage etc. to no avail.

Bob Elliott Oct 23, 2004, 02:18am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Built new machine last Apr 2004.

Specs

New components
GA-K8NNXP Rev 1
AMD 64 3000 CPU
1GB Crucial 3200 Ram

Existing Components
ATI Radeon 8500 Graphics card


4 x 20GB and 2 x 80GB
Maxtor D740X HDD's
7200 rpm, ATA133, 2MB Cache

Loaded XP Pro SP1 OEM Copy
No probs with install. All appeared OK

Began loading drivers and started to get "Delayed Write Failed"
Whilst loading Mobo drivers above fault "DWF" occuring frequently, could not load a single application without DWF occuring at least every couple files. Apps would not run or would run but keep reporting missing files.
Researched the web and found a lot of info on subject. Spent a couple of days trying all combinations of settings to mobo and OS but could not get a clean install of drivers and or apps.

Same problem with downloads of updates from the web
************************************

Installed 64-bit XP. No Problems. All drivers and Apps loaded OK other than the ones that 64XP would not recognize, which included some of the Mobo drives and, of course , my ADSL USB Modem.

Drivers are a definite problem as I can see from other posts.
**************************************
Loaded XP Pro SP1 OEM Copy and installed SP2 straight away.
No probs with install. All appeared OK
Loaded adsl modem drivers and download all updates from Microsoft site.
Loaded some drivers and apps. Ocasional DWF's but drivers and app's were at least working.
Some apps froze or droped out.
Machine is still too unreliable to be used main machine.
*****************************************
NO ATI drivers for graphics card have been loaded so I assume XP generic drivers are being used for the graphics card.
*****************************************
All three types of install have been tried on different HDD's so I am assuming that all the HDD's are OK.

Am at a loss to understand why DWF's occur on XP Pro SP1 and SP2 to a lesser extent but not on 64 bit XP bearing in mind that the hardware is exactly the same.

Am gradually working my thru all the posts trying the various remedies but if the above info rings any bells would be grateful for any short cuts.

Sry the post is so long.






Andy L Oct 31, 2004, 03:55pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hello,

my USB 2 HD gave me all the time DWF failures when I tried to write large files to it. Writing of small files even when it is a large amount isn't a problem.

I tried a lot of the given suggestions in this forum to fix this problem but unfortunately without success.

Solution for my system:

Bought a new USB 2 card with a NEC chip on it !!! BINGO.
Wrote already nearly 100 Gbyte back-up image files to the enclosure. No more DWFs ! That's a good feeling ;-)

I heard that the nFORCE 2 chipset on my ASUS motherboard which is responsible for the USB data exchange causes this DWF problems. Doesn't matter if it work with the WIN XP driver or with their own.

The NEC chipset works reliable.

My system:

OS: Windows XP Home
ASUS A7N8X with AMD 2600+
Chipset: nVidia nFORCE 2
Memory: RAM 256 MB
Video: ATI Radeon 9500
HDs: WD 120 GB + Samsung 40 GB
USB 2 Enclosure: TrekStor 160 GB (Hitachi HD)

Hope this will also work for some of you.

Andy L

James Bonaparte Nov 09, 2004, 04:04pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I first noticed this problem when XP was first out. I could not use an exteranal USB drive for this same problem. I read all the technical forums that discussed it and decided that according to popular opinion that Firewire was the way to go rather than USB. So I added an IEEE external drive. (This could not be partitioned and formatted directly using Win XP so I mounted it as an IDE drive took care of the partitioning and formatting and returned it to it's external enclosure) At first I did not DWF problems, but eventually they started appearing when moving large files (> 100Meg) to the external drive. Moving from the drive to internal harddrive was OK. The cure for my system is to defrag the external drive. This stops the DWF for a long time. When I get it again, that calls for another defrag.

Stephen Donlan Nov 10, 2004, 03:45am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi guys,

Just thought that I'd say that I've only ever experienced DWF once on my system EVER (albeit the event viewer was littered with them for a day, as I'd left my computer on whilst I was at work, it only ever happened that once).

I have:

Windows XP (have tried Home, Professional and Media Centre editions)
XP3200+ processor
ATI Radeon 9700pro (128mb)
1GB DDR400 RAM
Gigabyte NForce2 chipset
3x Maxtor hard drives (1x 80, 1x120 and 1x160gb drive - 2 on the mobo and 1 on PCI RAID card)
2x DVD drives (connected to mobo)
Various other PCI cards

The only thing that I can possibly think that I may do differently is that I get the generic drivers from the people who make the chipsets (i.e. for my motherboard drivers, I do NOT go to gigabyte but to NVidia and I go to ATI for my graphics card driver, not Sapphire or whoever makes it).

I don't mess with any setting in my registry or anything.

I've tried my system with no service packs, service pack 1 and service pack 2 installed - all turn up with no DWFs.

I don't know if I'm EXTREMELY lucky or not - but in saying this, I've built dozens of computers for friends, all based on the Gigabyte Nforce2 chipset - each and every one of them is STILL on the same, original install of Windows that I did for them (some of them are more than 12 months old) and still in good working order with no DWFs.

I don't know if I'm doing (or not doing) something to prevent this - all that I do is a plain-Jane install of Windows and the Windows updates. I don't fiddle with any registry settings or anything, and use the drivers (latest if poss) provided by the chipset manufacturer.

I hope that this is of some help to anyone. If you want to know any setup configurations that I have, feel free to ask.

Stephen

Richard Hardoon Nov 13, 2004, 07:16am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
The Answer is:

It needs to be partitioned as an extended partition with a logical drive. The write errors seem to be generated when the external drive is set to be a primary partition.

I have tried this on 2 drives which had these errors and it has fixed them both.

Suren Raju Nov 13, 2004, 11:31am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: (Richard Hardoon's post-Nov 13, 2004, 07:16 AM) "Delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Richard,... this is interesting if always true. If someone can duplicate your suggestion, (the answer is that the "problem" drive should be created as a logical-drive within an extended partition) - then you would have done us all a great service. By the way, exactly whose post, specifically, were you asnwering?
I have had this DWF problem on both types of drives, (primary & extended partitions), but usually when they are located on : EITHER removable (internal)drives mounted on UDMA Ultra-ATA controller cards, OR on "external" drives accessed via USB-2 or Firewire connectors.
Usually the DWF error-message appears if the I/O to the drive is too slow to keep up with what Windows XP buffer manager wants to "flush". Other than the memeory-management problems (well-documented for ATI cards), there also seems to be a specific Firewire firmware-bug (I/O transfers more than 128KB) acknowledged by some IDE-to-Firewire hardware manufacturers. As an example, Prolific PL3507 chipset acknowledged the bug (ambiguously) within the release notes for thier IEEE 1394 firmware patch, but they have since withdrawn the patch as well as all documentation. The hardware vendor of my external combo-drive in my case (IOGear) does not even acknowledge that the problem exists!. But this DWF error also occurs when you do high data-volume transfers using USB-2. Typically, for me it happens when I do a WinXP Backup (ASR system-recovery tool), or try to install Windows on a USB2 drive. I have even encounterd it on a (very slow) Internal SCSI disk-drive.

Finally, DWF error-message is also sometimes displayed as a "warning" even if the disk is perfectly okay, when Windows encounters an unexpected poblem. As for exmaple, if the (destination)hard drive fills up during WinXP backup, the backup program does not correctly get the "insufficient space" symptom detected by Windows XP, and signals a DWF error.
SP2 service pack of Win XP does seem to reduce some occurrences of DWF errors, but NOT all, - because the message appears for many different kinds of reasons, and Microsoft should give MORE SPECIFIC error/warning messages.
Any ideas what we can do to lobby Microsoft ?
Suren

Suren Raju Nov 13, 2004, 11:32am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: (Richard Hardoon's post-Nov 13, 2004, 07:16 AM) "Delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Richard,... this is interesting if always true. If someone can duplicate your suggestion, (the answer is that the "problem" drive should be created as a logical-drive within an extended partition) - then you would have done us all a great service. By the way, exactly whose post, specifically, were you asnwering?
I have had this DWF problem on both types of drives, (primary & extended partitions), but usually when they are located on : EITHER removable (internal)drives mounted on UDMA Ultra-ATA controller cards, OR on "external" drives accessed via USB-2 or Firewire connectors.
Usually the DWF error-message appears if the I/O to the drive is too slow to keep up with what Windows XP buffer manager wants to "flush". Other than the memeory-management problems (well-documented for ATI cards), there also seems to be a specific Firewire firmware-bug (I/O transfers more than 128KB) acknowledged by some IDE-to-Firewire hardware manufacturers. As an example, Prolific PL3507 chipset acknowledged the bug (ambiguously) within the release notes for thier IEEE 1394 firmware patch, but they have since withdrawn the patch as well as all documentation. The hardware vendor of my external combo-drive in my case (IOGear) does not even acknowledge that the problem exists!. But this DWF error also occurs when you do high data-volume transfers using USB-2. Typically, for me it happens when I do a WinXP Backup (ASR system-recovery tool), or try to install Windows on a USB2 drive. I have even encounterd it on a (very slow) Internal SCSI disk-drive.

Finally, DWF error-message is also sometimes displayed as a "warning" even if the disk is perfectly okay, when Windows encounters an unexpected poblem. As for exmaple, if the (destination)hard drive fills up during WinXP backup, the backup program does not correctly get the "insufficient space" symptom detected by Windows XP, and signals a DWF error.
SP2 service pack of Win XP does seem to reduce some occurrences of DWF errors, but NOT all, - because the message appears for many different kinds of reasons, and Microsoft should give MORE SPECIFIC error/warning messages.
Any ideas what we can do to lobby Microsoft ?
Suren

Charles Betman Nov 13, 2004, 03:25pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi there,

I'm experiencing the same problems as you are (Maxtor 200GB external drive / USB), but I wondered .... might XP SP2 solve our problem? I didn't have the guts to install SP2 yet because of all the problems mentioned on the web, but I'm thinking to install it one of these days hoping that it'll solve my "delayed write failure" (in Dutch: Uitgestelde schrijfbewerkingen zijn mislukt! :-)).

Howard Smith Nov 13, 2004, 03:49pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I have today bought two external drive cases which use the Prolific chipset, and after a day can get neither of them to work via firewire.
Browsing around the Microsoft site I cam up with some information regarding a fix, but you have to call support so they can check the fix is appropriate and then probably charge you for the information.
To find the info, go to the help and support centre, search for code 43 and select the knowledgebase items, should be 15 in total, the first one "SBP-2 drive stops responding when you try to write data in Windows XP"
Hope someone else can take this further.
I'm off tomorrow to buy a USB 2 card and see if that will work!
Regards
H

Nathan Roberts Nov 18, 2004, 04:21am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi guys - I've been following this discussion closely as my 200gb firewire drive has developed the DWFs after about 2 months (it's interesting that many posters cite this period of time), in my case they are triggered every time by Adobe Audition scratch disk activity.

Has anyone followed up this Microsoft hotfix?

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;885464

I'm interested to know whether it will be worth my while phoning them tonight - any guinea pigs like to share their experience?

Charles Betman Nov 18, 2004, 04:30am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi Nathan,

I'm not using a firewire connection but a USB conenction for my external drive. Do you know of a similar XP-fix when using USB?

Thnx, Charly

Bob Elliott Nov 18, 2004, 11:49am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi

Re my post Oct 23 2004 02:18 AM

New machine Specs

New components
GA-K8NNXP Rev 1
AMD 64 3000 CPU
1GB Crucial 3200 Ram

Existing Components
ATI Radeon 8500 Graphics card


4 x 20GB and 2 x 80GB
Maxtor D740X HDD's
7200 rpm, ATA133, 2MB Cache

Loaded XP Pro SP1 OEM Copy
No probs with install. All appeared OK

Forgot to mention that all HDDs in Kingwin removable trays.

No success with any of the software fixes mentioned in any of the posts.

Tried with HDDs in Beantech trays still DWFs.

Finally removed HDDs from trays and connected eide cables directly to HDDs.

Have successfuly moved large files from one folder to another, recovered large files from CD and DVD discs
done numerous defrags on large HDDs, generally tried all I could to simulate conditions that previously
caused DWF faults.

All drives connected directly to cables work OK.

64 XP beta still works well with HDDs fitted in removable trays.

All removable HDD racks rated for ATA133.

Seems my main problem is fixed but do understand what would be causing the DWF fault.

If there is anyone who can explain the fault would be grateful to hear from them.

Bob

Nick Lytton Nov 18, 2004, 03:01pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
Hi,

All I can say is that I have not had an ATI card on my system but was getting lots of DWF errors on several drives and partitions after I added a 200 Gig Maxtor 6Y200P0. I cured it by putting a paging file on each drive/partition that was causing errors. No more problems since!

Michael Yeang Nov 18, 2004, 09:15pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I had the DWF errors with my USB 2 120GB Maxtor external hard disk and solved it by letting "Windows choose what's best for my computer" in Performance Options, which means that all options are selected. Probably this slows down the computer enough so that there won't be an avalanche of data pouring through the USB port.

However, I now have only one paging file, min and max set at 1280 MB, on a fast internal HDD, also a 120GB Maxtor. So far, so good.

Garrett Rabenold Nov 19, 2004, 01:03am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: "delayed Write failure" in WIN XP
I was getting that error for the last several years... as soon as i exceeded 137gb... i got an ATA controller card and it went away for a while, and then i got another drive - a 160gb maxtor from staples (i am a western digital freak usually, but this maxtor was only 80 bucks almost a year ago, and figured it would be worth a shot). They all started delayed write failing, and i finally got it so that only the maxtor did by installing western digital drive overlayment stuff. somehow, the IDE cable CAUGHT ON FIRE! and now the maxtor is completely out of the picture.

About a week ago, my 200gb western digital started "tripping" like a lot of older maxtor drives do... it will just spin down and back up again, while the computer is on.

My first suspect was the power supply, but to my demise, Dell poweredge powersupplies are proprietary, and the biggest one they make is only 290 watts.

For about a week i had an old-ass AT power supply hanging out of the case to power the hard drives independently, with no tripping, except the delayed write failure came back.

WTF!!??

Right now i am just contemplating spending the 300 bucks for new everything... except for the western digitals, as they have my entire collection of movies, music, and files on them (2 200s, so i dont lose anything)

all these problems have totally destroyed maxtor's integrity in my mind, and has definately gotten me p**sed off at Dell quite a bit too.


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