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  ATI Radeon 9700 
 
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garth keefer Feb 26, 2003, 08:38pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
I just bought a powercolor 9700. It doesnt even POST! my motherboard gives the "video card not installed" tones. Card was tested at computer shop, works on another system. played with all the voltages/bios settings for hours

Asus CUBX (latest bios v1008 b4)
celeron 2 coppermine 900 mhz
512 pc133
AGP 2x 3.3v
Antec 430w ps

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1 Feb 26, 2003, 10:00pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
anyone in the Monterey California area? If so and you are having problems with this card then I woul be happy to help free of charge. I have a few here and I have a variety of boards that I have run them in. That would make things so much easier for you to be able to take a known to work great card and see if its something else in the system or if its just a bad card. Like i said before....I have already helped one person this way.
If it turns out to be your system then I can trouble shoot it part by part as I have several mobos including the a7n8x deluxe, 8rda+, soyo kt400platinum, msi kt4vl, and msi k7t266pro-2. I have several enermax 550 watters and a vantec stealth 520 if you think it may be your psu. Then of course the most common culprit the ram. I dont have any rambus but I do have several types of corsair xms from pc2700 to pc3500c2pt that can be used for testing.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5892707
http://www.docmodgod.com

If you are interested in meeting and getting to the bottom of this then emailto:matt_mcfaul@redshift.com

Outa Myhead Mar 01, 2003, 07:52am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Garth I had that message before, it normally shows that message when the power lead on the card is either not connected or there is not enough power getting to it. Check the power lead on the card and see if it's connecting properly or try another power lead on the PSU.

Does anyone know if the card runs ok without the metal spacer between the heatsink and the chip? I did read that one guy skimmed it down and then re-seated the sink and it worked fine, but since I don't have access to a skimming table or a milling drill would it be okay without any shim at all?

See bio for system setup.
garth keefer Mar 01, 2003, 11:21am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Found out how to almost fix it, had the "cold boot" bug. hit reset after getting the no vid card tones makes it boot fine. I returned the card though, no reason i should have to go through all that to get the thing to boot up. looks like i'm going to settle for a GF4 (also need something that runs at higher agp bus freq)

1 Mar 01, 2003, 11:28am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
When you tried it on the other computer at the store did you try rendering some games??? My buddy's bad one gave him that message...just a series of beeps.......when I swapped it with one of mine his system worked great so then I moved his appherently defective card into my systems (2 systems which had been running "built by" 9700pros perfectly for several months).
The result was that the card would then boot in my system however when I tried rendering any games it would either freeze the system or drop to a black screen. It may be deceptive if you put it in their system but didnt try anything other then a successfull boot.
Try going into your bios and setting halt on all errors to disabled or never.
If you still have a problem then it could be one of 2 things.....bad card or serious bottle neck with the rest of the system. It would make perfect sence for it to create a bottleneck in your system. No offense of course.

Christopher Hamaway Mar 01, 2003, 07:14pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700

1 Mar 02, 2003, 01:26am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
well, you should be okay. I am writting this on a sony 23inch widescreen with a native res of 1920x1200 attatched to a built by ati 9700pro.
Obviously I dont dare try to run games at that res however.....LCD monitors do look best at their native resolution. If you are using DVI then you wont notice any difference when dropping the res to play games. If you are using vga then you will definately notice that things get fuzzy when you are not running native res. Do they have DVI on that monitor?
Here is a link to a site with some workarounds for widescreen in xp.
http://www.widescreenxp.com/

I havent really gotten into that site too much because I just found it earlier today but hopefully it can help you out if you run into problems.

Update from buddy on bad 9700pro from ocsystem.com:

Originally ordered back in early january, they still havent returned him with a new card......in fact they sent him an email indicating the 9500pro was on backorder? He didnt order a 9500pro though he ordered a 9700pro.....anyone have anything good to say about these guys? I surely will never do buisiness with them again. I did however find out what was wrong with the ocsystem pc3200 I ordered. Upon taking off the heatspreader I noticed it was an ealy release geil dimm and they used a adhesive tape that measures 3mm in thickness to adhere the heatspreader to the chips. Early release means that there was no jedec spec for pc3200 at that time (purchased early last year) and that it was merely overclocked pc2700. Well, that explains why you must set it at 2.8v to get it to run at all with to 512 sticks......and even then only at cas 2.5 and still totally unstable. As most of us know when you overclock ddr you must raise the voltage which in turns raises the heat produced. Now correct me if Im wrong but having these heavy copper heatspreaders attatched with 3mm of tape on both sides does nothing but trap the heat in. To varify this I used a digidoc 5 to measure the heat of both sticks one with a heatspreader and one without. I probably dont have to tell you but the difference was amazing.....so off with the heatspreaders and the ddr runs great now! Yes I have many case fans.....5x80mm,1x120mm, dual water coolers, prometieas....etc.
Bottom line is watch out and check anything you get from these people with a magnifying glass!

Christopher Hamaway Mar 02, 2003, 12:04pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
DOCMODGOD,

Many thanks.... Yes, the Apple does have a DVI....

Thanks for the link as well, I will head there now....

Any thoughts on your use of normal (non-support of 16:9) software ?

I guess I am trying to decide if I should return the 20" widescreen in favor of a 19" Sony LCD (4:3)....

Thanks again for any input / help....

1 Mar 02, 2003, 12:27pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
not supported software will be stretched to fit assuming your monitor has that option in its menus.........and let me tell you this; If you play ut2k3 then your gonna love that stretch feature. My screen is actually 16:10 which makes the stretch effect less prominent. Either way you are viewing targets wider and since code is code you are also presented with a wider kill zone......I had to stop playing instagib cause guys were accusing me of cheating and It wasnt any fun anymore.
Maybe we should just start a widescreen advantage ut2k3 instagib room....lol!
Check your monitors menu options for that.

One other thing.......you wont be able to convert things like websites designed in 1024 or 800x600 in widescreen. You will however be able to run 2 explorer screens while surfing which is handy for replies to these message boards cause you can view the original post and your reply screen both at full size one on each side of the screen.
BTW, nice gift.........marraige does have its benifits....<font sml="AgHSHuk=">:-*</font>

Luka Zuber Mar 02, 2003, 04:07pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Hi i just bought Gigabyte 9700 Pro and having same infinite loop problems, i tried clean instals with dx8.1 and dx9, catalist 3.1 drw. Tried all bios settings but no luck. It doesent lock often but i hate the feeling when i have to expect errors and BSOD. It locks in win apps moastly like explorer and screen saver :( and im really getting p**sed now because i payed some serious money for my pc. If anny one has my pc specs and fixes or finds something out let me know. TNX and cya

Intel 2.8 Ghz
512 DDR 400 Samsung (CAS 2-2-2-5)
ASUS P4G8X Delux 1003g BIOS
Gigabyte 9700 Pro rev 1.0
Creative Audigy Platinum
WD 120 GB HDD
WD 40 GB HDD
Pioneer 106 Slot in DVD
Plextor 16x10x40
Enermax 430 W PSU
Samsung Syncmaster 959NF
Win XP Profesional

1 Mar 02, 2003, 05:41pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
I know you said you have problems even in windows but if you can go to the start menu and run dxdiag.......go to the display tab and varify that all direct 3d tests will run by clicking test d3d. I have seen this loop occur when upgrading from the beta dx9 to final. The end result there was a reformat since nothing else seemed to work......but it sounds like you went from 8.1 to 9.
Also, normally a enermax 430 watt psu would be great but......you have a lot of stuff on that system drawing alot of power. I was worried running i little less stuff on my enermax 550 watter. Im assuming thats not the ful extent of your system either......any cold cathodes, water coolers, or excessive items that might be removed temporarily to see if thats the problem? Also you might try plugging the card into a molex connector that is closer to the beggining of the power supply leads....It is possible that if you have it plugged in after 2 hard drives (any rpm) they could be robbing the power from your radeon. Im looking at one of my 430 watt enermax right now and noticeing that there really are not many leads which could be an indication that you shouldnt be useing a bunch of extensions.
You obviously arent one of those guys thats affraid of the bios so maybe you have a dc voltage tester? Try testing the power at the molex connector that connects to the radeons floppy power cable to be sure that fluctuations are not excessive. I have alot of building to do this week on a few systems so I will be doing some experimenting to see if I can cause these errors.......If I can somehow get a good card to exhibit this behavior then we maybe I can get some definate answers.
This card seems to be like a child....very tempermental, so maybe a little reverse psychology will work on it too! :-)

LAZARUS Mar 03, 2003, 08:22am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700 please help
Hi guys

I recently re-installed win XP pro and all my ATi 9700 drivers from scratch.. I then moved on into benchmarking my card..... 3D mark 2001SE b330 gave me only 10421 when I should be getting 14003 or something...a huge difference . Also in Jedi knight 2 I am stuck at 90 FPS no matter what I DO.. even at 640 x 480 everything OFF the game will not go more than 90 FPS... Please let me know if you got any ideas...

P4 2.4Ghz
Asus P4S8X
1 GB 333 DDR
Quantum ATLAS SCSI-3 HD
AHA 29160 SCSI card


Luka Zuber Mar 03, 2003, 11:23am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
I thank you for your reply, in past few days i tried runing dxdiag manny times and it passes without a glitch, when i updated to dx9 i did a clean install (first win, mobo drivers, sound and lan etc. drivers, dx9, and last catalyst 3.1 drv, 3.1 catalyst control panel) and it all went smooth. I tried installing MBM (voltage monitor) and watching +3.3 voltage while running hard dx aplicatins like ut2003, unreal2, ati 9700 demos, needfor speed hot persuit 2, C&C generals (all max detail 1280x1024 res.) and voltage dident go below +3.30 (+3.34 - 3.38 nothing running ) this was with all components connected to psu.(my graphic card is on its own conector, i removed floppy and tried removing some other components as well but no luck). Only one aplication besides win where ive been able to freeze my pc were those ati demos but that was while on dx9 so i thought it was dx9 problem but now i know it wasent, and freezing happened only 2 or 3 times. (My card before radeon was asus gf3ti500 delux on the same system and it ran flawlesly) When i was reading those p4g8x mbo tests i read that 9700 only worked normal when it was set to USWC in bios so it was the only setting i havent tried, but today i set it to UC and for 6 hours now i had no lockups i ran 3dmark2001 for 4 hours(looping) and all is fine. I had many problems with my pcs before but the good thing was that i could force those errors and trie my fixes, but this problem i canot force and that is what i hate, i can yust wait untill it hits me :( Sorry for my english im Croatian :)) Tnx again man (btw no lockups in open gl apps )

Outa Myhead Mar 04, 2003, 07:17am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
I found out why my card was tripping on the infinite loop and wierd screen crashes, I changed the power supply for a 400watt P4/AMD PSU and so far the troubles have gone, I will try some more demos and games to see what happens. I think the old PSU was straining when the board and the card were demanding more power but the PSu couldn't cope.

See bio for system setup.
Adam Martin Mar 04, 2003, 09:12am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Can't you allow the psu to give more power to the AGP through the mobo? What voltage do you think is safe? Also, what voltage is safe for RAM? I have a 350W but the people I bought it from claim very strongly that they have had no other problems with that psu or video card whatsoever. I want to send my video card and ram (OCSystem PC3200) back to them (have a year warranty), but they insist on me sending first and I really cannot go without a computer for that long (wish I was dealing with Dell or Gateway). I think I have it fixed for most games..but still can't play Jedi Knight 2 and some others. Also, some games have started to come up with an error instead of freazing or shutting down...one of those windows where it says the program has to shut down and if you would like to report the problem. Who knows...it would be nice to have a 100% system though.

-----------------------------------------------
Intel P4 2.8 Ghz 2x 512mb ram (OCSystem Overclocked PC3200)
Soyo Dragon Lite P4X400
Radeon 9700 Pro 128
120GB Hard Drive
CD-RW and DVD drives
Creative SB Live w/ 6 speaker system
--------------------
Outa Myhead Mar 05, 2003, 06:16am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Okay so I might have jumped the gun on the PSU thing, it runs longer than before but it still gives me the infinite loop error at random points; I'm thinking about buying a zalman heatsink if the article on frostytech is anything to go by and I'm sure it's relating to a heat problem seeing as the power supply has two fans going constantly where as teh old PSU had one that kicked in when it got too hot and I might add another case fan to the bottom of the case to get the air moving better as well.

I'm determined to get this thing running properly.

See bio for system setup.
Adam Martin Mar 05, 2003, 09:11am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
It seems like many people are having better luck working with the heat vs power. But even then some, like me, can't get this thing to totally work. I would go out and get a water cooling system but people with those are even having problems. Don't have the money or time to try EVERYTHING (already spent an arm and a leg for this system).

-----------------------------------------------
Intel P4 2.8 Ghz 2x 512mb ram (OCSystem Overclocked PC3200)
Soyo Dragon Lite P4X400
Radeon 9700 Pro 128
120GB Hard Drive
CD-RW and DVD drives
Creative SB Live w/ 6 speaker system
--------------------
1 Mar 05, 2003, 10:10am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
Assuming that you have a good card (though I doubt it), 1.5v should suffice just fine. The only time that it should be necessary for you to raise it from there is if you are overclocking. Yes that will generate more heat. I really wouldnt go attempting to overclock untill you have found a good stable baseline....if you cant get it stable then adding voltage could just create further problems. I normally run mine at 1.7v with a slight overclock but still full stability.
Oh yeah, I managed to mess things up the other day when I uninstalled radeonator 2.0. Upon reboot I got the bios screen display but once in windows the monitor wouldnt sync unless I switched to input 2 and then back to input 1......anyone exhibiting the same behavior try the same thing? I went through every boot.ini, sysco.inf, and temp user file and couldnt find what had become corrupt.
I tried everything from reinstalling radeonater 2.0 to completely uninstalling the card and then reinstalling it.....whatever the problem it seemed to be a courrupt prefetch problem. For those of you that dont know how this works...windows reads your mind after a while, sudden changes can shock the system especially when windows has seen you use a program over and over again and then all of a sudden its gone.
My patients wore thin and I just decided to go for a system restoral since Im reformatting this weekend anyway.
All is back to normal again immediately following the restoral. For those of you that are not aware of how a prefetch cache works, you can read more here http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=19543,00.asp

You will want to read about the first 4 paragraphs.

Do some of you guys having problems have another system or a friends system that you can try your card in?

1 Mar 05, 2003, 10:13am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
sorry that link doesnt work they seem to have modified it so it doesnt copy/paste. Here is the pertinent info though from the article courtesey of Etremetech.com. You can read the full article by manually typing in the link from the previous reply.

Windows XP's Built-In Optimization

Of everything you can do to optimize Windows XP, one of the simplest is just to use it. As you launch and exploit applications, Windows observes your behavior and updates a dynamic file called Layout.ini. After every three days, when it senses that the computer is idle, it rearranges the locations of programs on the system hard drive to optimize their launch and execution.

XP also speeds up and the boot process and optimizes the launch of programs by using prefetching. Windows observes the code and programs that are used immediately upon bootup and creates a list of data to prefetch very early in the boot process. Similarly, as individual programs are launched, Windows keeps track of different files and components are accessed. The next time the application is accessed, Windows prefetches the necessary items to expedite the application's launch.

The prefetch optimizing code exists both within the XP kernel and the task scheduler service. The kernel keeps track of pages that are referenced by a given process immediately after the process is created. The service transforms the recorded pages into prefetch instructions for that process. The next time the process is created, the kernel executes the prefetch instructions, speeding up the creation of the process.

Disk optimization and application/boot prefetching work in tandem. That is, when XP optimizes file system for faster program access, the data it recorded for the application and bootup prefetch processes is factored in to determine optimal file placement on the disks.

1 Mar 05, 2003, 12:16pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: ATI Radeon 9700
BEFORE YOU BUY THE ZAHLMAN GPU KIT!!!!!!!! READ THIS ARTICLE!!!!! This was a test performed by toms hardware.....if you are familiar with toms hardware he doesnt hold back and he doesnt ever fall subject to manufacturer pressure! Nor does he ever use their claims or copy their tests....all tests are performed in his dungeon! He has nothing to gain so you can be sure that you are getting unbiased results!


http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030226/zalman-04.html


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