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  Re: Accept the user agreement, or else? 
 
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Sander Sassen Feb 03, 2005, 02:02pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
Sean,

What he was trying to get across, and the point you missed, but which point I also tried to make in the column is that the inital purchase you made is ridiculous. Either you offer a game free for download and charge a subscription fee. Or you charge for a game and then give people free access to play online. An alternative is to combine the two, charge a small amount to purchase the game and a small amount for the subscription fee. I find $40 for the game and $12.99/m a bit too much for WoW, I almost pay less for my cable and internet access combined.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
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Kash Feb 03, 2005, 02:03pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
Erg... Have you guys played EQ2? There's hella questing... I mean, there's questing right when you get in, right when you get on the island, right when you get into Freeport or Qeynos... Man... it's everywhere. Most of them are just "take this here, make sure he gets it, then tell me when you got that done" kind of quests in the beginning. And I hope you have, at LEAST, 1GB of RAM to play that game... With my system as it was (512MB) it would take between 5-10 minutes to load one zone and it would take me roughly 5-6 minutes to run through it (if it was a city zone, and depending on size... It took me 10 minutes once to run through N. Qeynos). Then I upgraded to 1GB of memory and zoning only takes about 20-30 seconds and I can run through the zone in normal time.

Sincerely,
Kash

AMD AM2 3600+ Brisbane (65nm), DFI Infinity UltraII-M2, 1GB Wintec AMPO DDR2-800 @ 667, Sapphire X1950 Pro, 250GB WD SATA II, 500W Coolmax PSU, Logitech MX500, Gateway PS/2 keyboard (circa 1999)
Tom Sheets Feb 03, 2005, 02:04pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
If software companies keep going that way, they will suffer greater losses due to privacy reasons. Don't make us quit buying your product, just find another way to protect your content.

B_radr Feb 03, 2005, 04:03pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
I would like to see whoever is responsible for the "user agreement" have to agree to "My Terms" as a consumer. I would also like to see the ALL POWERFUL "I agree" button changed. Have a little checklist of their demands. I will check off the ones I agree with, and say "screw you" to the ones I don't and continue on my merry way and use the software. Example...

I will not copy this software - I agree
I will not use it for anything other than it's intended use. - I agree
I will allow you to install third party software to spy on you - Screw you
I will allow you to cancel my cd key at any time - Screw you

etc... you get the point.

My Terms....

1) Proper "user agreement" labelled on outside of box.

2) Do you agree to provide support for this software for a minimum of business operating hours until your company is bankrupt?

...feel free to add your own terms in their guys.

Brad

Tom Sheets Feb 03, 2005, 04:31pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
ROFL.... Well said.

varun rao Feb 04, 2005, 05:17am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
I agree with Sander... when u offer the game like a bloody service, charge the same way....They can have the best of both worlds.
Either submit complete ownership after having priced it so obscenely.... OR charge as and when used or in periods...

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Outdated
Sean B Feb 04, 2005, 05:48am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
The problem with that is that the developer has no assurance that you will actually continue to subscribe to the game long enough for them to make a profit.

If they gave the game away for free... the profit would be tentative and entirely based on the users' subscriptions.

While I agree that they shouldn't charge the full price of an average game, I do find it neccessary for the developer to charge something for the software in order to sustain some sort of profit.

In order to offset the price of the game, most developers do give you a free three month non-contractual trial period... equivalent to about 65% of the cost of the game.

A middle of the road solution would be to charge half the price of a normal game and only offer a one month free trial period. This will allow the developer to make a profit, while allowing the consumer to not feel buyers remorse if they choose not to subscribe.

Robyn Hahn Feb 04, 2005, 06:37am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
The bottom line is: read the agreement. Software is not a couch, nor a car, nor a book, nor a cabbage. None of them include a limitation of usage clause (well, a book might--it's called 'copyright'). Intellectual property is a funny animal, with strange behaviour and feeding habits. Because of man's ingenuity, the cleverness of software *can* and *will* be exploited without some sort of "agreement" restraint. As a former FoxPro programmer, I remember the expressions of amazement from the original Fox Software team: the Dave Fulton gang were amazed that such incredible software could be developed from FoxPro. That was fine with them--they were impressed, that's all. This was a case of taking intellectual property and creating something so much more than even the developers themselves ever dreamt possible.
If gaming software were exploited unchecked, individuals could make some serious money off the fruits of the developer's labour--and the developers would never see a red cent of it. You must appreciate their angst about that. Fair's fair.
So, read the fine print (agreement). That's the beauty of buying software on the internet. You can evaluate before entering into the commitment. I own a copy of X-Plane. Brilliant stuff. Buggy as, but who cares? I had all the evaluation time I needed to trial it... *and* I read the fine print. And bought it.
So, read the fine print.

Noneofyour Business Feb 04, 2005, 10:21pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
I think it's a bunch of bs, I mean I can understand the software developers wanting to protect their rights but this is going overboard.

Jason Snyder Feb 05, 2005, 02:53am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
I'm sorry for a slight off topic here, but I just got an update from steam saying that a new level for cs is being released taking advantage of some new lighting techniques or something and that it would only be released to people with good enough hardware. that sucks, cause I have a 3 year old computer. This stuff their handing out is free, and I's like to be able to see it even if my computer is old. Now just watch, you'll have to have an ati card to play the level. :P. lol. anyways, I have no real problems with steam, but I think that software deveopers might be going a little overboard trying to squish pirates. lol. I think arrrrgh! pirates every time. heh.

Brendan Falvey Feb 08, 2005, 04:34am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
An interesting thread that while of more immediate consequences to gamers it has the broarder implication for all of us a bit like the region codes on DVDs. No one begrudges the developer protecting his IP however the end user has rights also including the right to buy a different product. However, to exclude users unless they forego their rights is not acceptable. The industry needs to develop two models. One an outright purchase where they no longer have any say in its use other than the acceptable restrains such as no dissasembly, no multiple installs. second the suggested rental at reasonable rates say the old replacement cost say $120 per year that works out at $10 per month that has to be acceptable with a one month termination option and this is where a lot of arguments would arise.

The servers automatically cutting off users if the key is registered a second time raises the issue of piracy in that a legitimate user would be cut off if another user with a pirate copy uses the same number or even miss keys their own similar number.

Again I suggest that the best way to enforce change is to vote with your wallet. You keep buying they will keep diminishing your rights. You have to remember that may of the original developers have gone for additional finance to build a better product and the bean counters step in and drive all these obnoxious processes. Dont buy the product email them and tell them you would buy their product but object to their management of YOUR right to extintion so you purchased XYZ as a better product. Might not be but if their cashflow stops they may rethink their position

Meats_Of_Evil Feb 20, 2005, 08:38pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
WOW!!!!!!!!!! This is the best thread i seen in all the site very interesting i ended reading it all.And it was very entertaining i hope you post another like this one.



EXCELLENT TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything I write is Sarcasm.
OCGW Feb 20, 2005, 08:46pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
Sean B, if you are "out there"

The only assurance you have in "business" to turn a profit, is to put out a better product than the other guy

For LESS!!

OCGW

PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEACE

john albrich Feb 09, 2008, 03:38am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Accept the user agreement, or else?
Don't forget 3 other things:

Re: Software requiring "logon"/verification contact with company server-
If the company goes out of business, or simply modifies its website, your software may become completely inoperable. That has happened to me several times.

Re: Content of agreement-
I have also read agreements in which the user agrees to allow personal data to be used by company, and indemnifying the company against any and all control and protection of those data. They may even sell your personal data to a crook and you'll have nothing to say about it.

Re: Content of agreement-
The agreement can change at any time, and the company is under no obligation to tell you if it does. That includes such things as how they use any personal data you may provide. Your only recourse is to stop using the software, but that may not stop your personal data from being mis-used/sold.
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