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  Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature? 
 
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Alex-E-C-396 Feb 22, 2005, 08:31pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I have owned about fifthteen computer systems over the last ten years and have built all of them except the two Commodore Amigas, those I just modded the heck out of them. I have never had a problem with any of the Chipsets the only problems that I have had is with my two Current AMD Athlon chips the XP2700 burned up about two weeks after I bought it and the Athalon 900 burned up about a week ago and it is three years old. I owned many AMD systems long before the Athlon XP chips where released I cannot remember the model names of the CPUs though. I still have a Pentium II 450mhz up and running with 128MB of ram and it is used every, or every other day.

I have never scene anything quirky about an AMD chipset or an Intel chipset. The one thing that I do understand is that Intel owns the bloody market for processor distribution. I think it has to do with the fact that there is no main stream computer company that sells AMD based systems like Dell sells Pentium systems. The one thing about the chipset made buy the manufacturer of the chip is that there chipset will not have any modding features like my AMI BIOS or a BIOS from NVIDIA etc. Why would AMD make a chipset that would be cable of causing the chip to run at a performance level that would shorten it's life, just so it would run faster. Then they would loose money on there warranty.

Alexander E. Calvo
alex-e-c@sbcglobal.net
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Amalfi Marini Feb 23, 2005, 12:55am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
"I think it has to do with the fact that there is no main stream computer company that sells AMD based systems like Dell sells Pentium systems."

That was what I talked about, even if the numbers I showed were calculated by me "on the fly" I had no intention of trying to hide stability issues with AMD chipsets. I think there are enough users here to confirm that many of the issues are user related.

Asus K8N, I remember the first ones released were bad, had problems "quirks" with their capacitors. Anyway, that actually meant that there were plenty of bad apples, and some worked good. Heat problems, I have an Athlon 64 3000 and it's cold, but when raising the clock to 2Ghz it gets warm to hot not boiling like a P4 Extremly Expensive Edition.

Don't know what happened to you but I'm sure that temp was the cause, maybe the heatsink was missplaced. Happened to my borther, he has an Abit mobo with a athlon 64 3200 Socket 939 (blows my Athlon 64 3000 754 in mem transfer tasks) and the Titan Syberia Heatink he bought was not compatible with the Abit mobo (because siberia isn't lever based), meaning that I Kept the titan syberia and my bro got a small thermaltake that is exactly like the AMD PIB one (I recommend no to buy OEM, the AMD PIB heatsink is good enough). The other thing that could happened is that cool n quiet was enabled, and fan wasn' t turned on when the system was in a load... or you simply got a bad apple.

I don't believe your AMD system was responsible of burning 2 hard disk drives. That's just ridiculous, come on.

In the other hand, there's something strange happening with the Sound card that my brother has in his 939 mobo. When you open winamp (winamp and just winamp, doesn't happen with games or other players), systems reboots alone! Is this maybe the kind of quirk that happens to be the ones we should talk about in this article?

Anastasiou Steve Feb 24, 2005, 05:01pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I had an inlet fan above my HDD's and the still burnt up.It turns out that i had a faulty mobo.I changed it and didn't had a problem since.Bad luck what can i say...

Jay Harrison Feb 25, 2005, 08:29pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I'm not so sure the main point of the article is correct. A neighbor of mine has a POS emachines Celeron CPU with an integrated Intel graphics chip, which causes her no end of grief in crashes. She's totally unable to update the drivers for it (Intel provides an online instruction sheet that is 5 pages long), and I won't do it because I just know *something* will happen in the middle of the process that will render her system unusable (we live in an area of frequent power outages/brownouts and she doesn't have a regulator or UPS). If that were to happen, she would blame ME.
Point is, the Intel chip, while it may not be the system chip, is to blame; and the fix isn't there for it. Now I'm sure Intel has got that particular glitch fixed in their latest, but that doesn't help anyone who can't afford to upgrade every year or so.
I've not had a whole lot of other experience with actual self-built Intel rigs, but every mass-prod rig I've ever had to work on except for one was Intel and except for one P233 rig, has exasperating issues.
So perhaps Intel makes sure their enthusiast boards/chips work well, they let the mass-prods put out garbage. Don't know about you, but I've had to deal with a lot more of the latter than the former.

Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Feb 26, 2005, 02:33am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
reason why amd doesnt make chipsets of their own is due to the fact of price aswell, amd is trying to keep their stuff lower price but also make sure their performance is up where the intel cpus are but with lower clocks. Oh Plus those who are actually bashing the Intel Chipsets etc, Ive built many systems using them(P2 CPU and higher) and not have had a single problem yet.

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
DFI LP NF2 Ultra-B (Hellfire 3EG Rev2)
Antec SX800, Neo HE 500, 4 Antec 8CM Fans
Thermalright SI-97 1 Antec Tricool 12CM Fan
CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
2x Barracuda HDs (250/400)
2x Samsung Write
Who Knows? Feb 28, 2005, 12:55pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
perhaps if the current 3rd party manufacturers are successful enough in producing stable chipsets, then AMD can concentrate their money and time on CPU technology advancement, research and testing.

after all, if all 3rd party chipsets werent successful then AMD would also be a failure.
i'm quite fine with this strategy, and unless they notice a drop in sales because chipset manufacturing, they can continue to improve their success rate in the CPU world.
once they can keep the company on top of the competitor, as a secondary addition to their ajenda they can start or improve on other areas such as CHIPSETS

GameTyro Feb 28, 2005, 04:17pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Good comment "who knows?"..... I agree completely. Any company that gets spread too far and wide has trouble maintaining quality products in the long run. That's why the little guys give the big ones a run for their money because they're able to dedicate more time and research into developing a more masterful product. Damn this world of ENORMOUS SUPER companies. Yeah, maybe they produce cheaper products, but they also too often produce inferious products as a result. That is often out of greed.... So let's lay off AMD, I really respect them because they do a great job producing some AWESOME technology, and just look how long it's taken Intel just to produce their own 64-bit procs. Shame, shame.... However, I have no quarrels with Intel; I think their a fantastic and very strong company. ** I just think AMD is better... hehe **

* GameTyro (Gaming Name: Kanjou ; Gaming Clan: -[RASE]- )
- AMD Athlon 3800+
- 2GB OCZ Gold Series PC-3200
- nVidia 7800GT 256 DDR3
- 250GB WD 7200rpm SATA150
- 300GB Seagate 7200rpm SATA150
- Standard Logitech Keyboard
* Getting time to UPGRADE!!
Porkchop Mar 09, 2005, 05:34pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Good Article Sander Keep up the good work

Alex-E-C-396 Mar 09, 2005, 07:45pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
An AMD machine will always add 2+2 more quickly than an Intel machine. That is just a rule of reality!

Alexander E. Calvo
alex-e-c@sbcglobal.net
R cynic Mar 11, 2005, 05:50pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
AMD vs INTEL....again....hmmmm, personally I have always been partial to AMD; I like to support the little guy(I am scared to think how much Intel would charge for products if there was no competition). I think that the size of the company can also dictate STRENGTHS and WEAKNESSES.
For example Intel(BIG) can generate huge volume of sales(strength), but may fail to push the envelope relying on past successes and narrower vision(ie: relying on mhz increments to generate more buzz) instead of fully embracing NEW ideas and developping NEW technologies(weakness)

Amd on the other hand don't generate the huge volume of sales(weakness some might say), ....don't generate Intel's volume of sales(STRENGTH I say) , rendundant perhaps, BUT appealing to the hardcore computer user has always been a selling factor of AMD. Higher performance, lower cost, better Oclocking, generating less heat, and providing new ways to get past the performance bottleneck(with a fraction of Intel's R&D budget) all appeal to those of us who aren't happy with buying into the general complacency factor.
A drawback to these strengths might be that AMD doesn't update drivers/bios as often as Intel, the fact that amd has a little less support for hardware (at first) than Intel does,and has more 2nd party manufacturers involved in producing hardware based on amd design (personally I think this opens more of a think tank approach to new technology/ solutions{of course more hiccups also})


Honestly tho I am getting off topic, The Nature of the industry is always pushing new tech, therefore instability issues will arise with Amd or Intel(Hardware? software? drivers? bios? etc.etc.etc...) All I am saying is that IMO both manufactures offer a good product, I just like the fact that Amd is cheaper, and performs better. If I have to hunt for the right driver or bios for an extra hour or 2 then thats ok with me, because in the end I will have a cheaper, faster system, that runs cooler and I have supported the underdog too! For Amd to go up against a Big Dog like Intel with meager sales from us enthusiasts is no small feat....They must be doing some things right, to come up with better hardware(handsdown) with a fraction of Intel's R&D budget. All things said and done, I am getting ready to build my 3rd Amd based system and I have never had more than a small stability burp the proper driver couldn't fix(I am sure I have been lucky). But If It weren't for AMD then Intel could charge 500 bucks for a 1 gig cpu and we would pay it....(CUZZ WE WOULD HAVE NO CHOICE)....but this is just my meager passing outlook on the amd vs intel argument and I admit that I don't even work in the industry. Infact this is my first post so (please be gentleLOL) I just wanted toc**kmy leg on the old intelvsamd....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

OPINIONS ARE LIKE a**holeS.........EVERYBODY'S GOT ONE.


Richard La Rose Mar 12, 2005, 12:46am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
I agree with the Author.

I'm purely an enthusiast. I've been buying the best of the best ever since 1998 (before that I did like most and tried to make do with what I had).

Each 6 months I upgrade my system (which usually means buying a whole new one) and do my research. More often then not I end up with an Intel based system. Recently I made the switch from a 3.4Ghz Pentium4 EE to an AthlonFX-55 & MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLi.

Since I made the switch I've been getting VERY irritating issues with my Adaptec 1960SCSI card, my two BFG GeForce 6800 Ultra PCI-Express cards (which I no longer run and where replaced with an x850XT PE) as well as issues with my ATi TV Wonder.

I've never had so many issues in recent memory. Last time I had this many issues it was with an Asus P5A-B Socket 7 board and K6/2 processor. (although my nForce2 did give me issues with sound glitches yey soundstorm).

AMD systems are just mean't for speed. Compatibility is sacrificed. The reason I went to the x850XT PE was for one not many games took advantage of SLi as well as the horrible issues with nVidia drivers on both the nForce4 and the graphics drivers (Forceware). Anything above 66.93 would work on some games while other games would not work and would show glitches and abnormalities. The funny part is the only way to get higher performance out of my SLi rig compared to an x850XT PE was to run the latest BETA glitch heaven drivers.

I guess it's all the fanboys and review sites who's lead writer is a fanboy that is responsible for the mis-information regarding the stability of both the nForce4 and 6800 cards.

This was the last draw and I am no longer going to purchase an AMD system because of the glitchy chipsets and I'm also no longer going to waste my money on nVidia products at all.

Intel/ATi all the way... at least I get WHQL driver releases monthly (sometimes more often) that fix issues rather then cause more.

just my 2 cents.

Richard La Rose Mar 12, 2005, 01:03am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
A few more corrections,

Intel has had a 64bit capable processor for longer then AMD (Itanium).

Hypertransport is not an AMD incention at all. AMD liscenced the technology from Compaq who acquired it after they bought Alpha. It was employed in Compaq's EV7 processors. http://www.top500.org/ORSC/2004/opteron.html <--- read me.

AMD does not invent. They have never really come up with anything original. AMD tends to liscense technology from other companies and improve upon it... make it there own.

AMD liscensed x86 from Intel. Improved it and added some 64bit extentions.
AMD liscensed Hypertransport from Compaq, improved it and added it to it's K8 architecture.
AMD liscenced MMX, SSE, SSE2, SSE3 from Intel... in the case of MMX AMD liscensed it and added some more instructions and called it 3Dnow.
AMD liscenced PCI Express from Intel. No improvements.
AMD liscenced PCI bus from Intel
AMD liscenced SDRAM bus from Intel
AMD liscenced the EV6 bus used on the K7 processor from Compaq and improved it (dual channel memory bus).
AMD liscensed Socket7 socket improved it and called it SuperSocket 7.
AMD read up on Intel's NX bit used on servers and high end platforms. Took the idea and brought it to the desktop.


AMD is not an innovator. Intel is an innovator. I'm not a fanboy as you can see it is very much the truth. I don;t know why some people get offended when someone criticizes AMD. It's human nature to criticize and to offer one's opinion.

Intel is constantly spending on R&D. All AMD does it take what Intel is working on, and due to the free liscence between the two, add a few improvements and change the name.

Now Intel did release 64bit extensions and called it EM64T instead of x86-64 (AMD never called it AMD64 it was called that by a fanboy reviewer over at Anandtech and caught on.. AMD later started to use it). but as we do know Intel's 64bit extensions on based on Itanium's registers which is why M$ had to make a few changes to WindowsXP 64 to accomodate the new Intel extensions. They differ from AMD's and were not taken from AMD and mearely improved... but they are for the most part compatible.

One could say Intel took the idea of 64bit extensions from AMD.. so I'll add that to the list of things Intel has taken from AMD

Idea to add 64bit extensions to x86.

AMD make gaming CPU's. That's about it.


OCGW Mar 12, 2005, 01:34am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
"If I screw something up, it must be defective"

"It couldn't be because I didn't read the, & follow the directions"

& if I keep screwing it up, over, & over. & over it only proves that the products I am choosing are inferior, not me

OCGW

PEACE



Alex-E-C-396 Mar 12, 2005, 02:01am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
What website should I go to to inquire about 128bit/256bit CPUs? Is there a discussion box on this subject on the Hardware Analysis site?

Thank's,
Alexander E. Calvo

Alexander E. Calvo
alex-e-c@sbcglobal.net
Who Knows? Mar 13, 2005, 11:37am EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
hey Richard,
Microsoft giant Bill Gates had done just that years ago, he bought out this lousy hole punched card reading computer and made something out of it.
if Bill Gates had NOT also done that 25 or 30 years ago, he'd not be where he is today.
or perhaps if he stayed in partnership with Steve Jobs, APPLE computers would dominate everything in this world (isnt it weird how things work out?)
did you know that there were 8 or more differnet versions of DOS?
instead of spending thousands of dollars to make the 9 millionth version it would be cheaper and wiser to work with something already in your reach.

same goes for the typical FLASH technology that we all use today on our cell phones, digital cameras, mp3 players, hand held devices and more. FLASH was just one of many other inventions, FLASH just happend to be the successor. this is also on going now for the next new technology to take over FLASH.

however, if you were a giant like APPLE, Microsoft, or INTEL, then you'll be taking a lesser risk by putting out "innovations", because being a giant you can afford to take risks.


i couldnt help but notice the comment about AMD 64 extensions VS the ITANIUM. to me it sounds like apples and oranges because ITANIUM is a true 64bit architecture and as you already know the AMD 64 is only an extension of instructions.

also the statement about AMD makes gamming machines is over exagerative to me. that would be like saying that MOTOROLA's RISC processors are made for audio and video production, or like saying that INTEL is made for workstations.
AMD just so happens to give most gammers out there a slight if not over powering arousal of because of it's desirable architecture, but that's not to mean that they dont do other great things. since when did the majority of INTEL fans out there build pcs strictly for workstation use?

Michael Miller Mar 25, 2005, 05:47pm EST Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Intel had it right up until the releases the Prescott line of Pentium 4s. I still stand by the Northwood P4s for video editing and 3D modeling/animation. I like Northwood and the Intel 875I chipset. Though over 1 year old still rock solid and reliable. I don't like jumping into new technology when the old one is still perfectly good. AMDs are good when they work but they still are not as reliable as Northwood P4. Prescott was a bad move for Intel.

Emilio Douglas May 24, 2005, 05:46pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Since reading this forum and it's many replies I see many opinions, some factual, some perhaps less so.
I can only recount my own expierence in such matters. Expierence which should be rooted in solid technical assessment and with a good foundation of technical knowledge. The Intel vs. AMD question is one debated till time im-memorial. As a high-end 3D graphic content developer and end user for 7 years, I have used & own both the Intel and the AMD. I find both to be "problematic" for the average end user depending upon which series is in late favor.

Overall however, I must give the AMD label the system of personal choice. Why ? Simply the fact that the AMD has by a far margin been "less" problematic. Perhaps due to good parings of solid components and chipset MOBO's that have always been very solid performers. I think most people in the know will agree that the most intensive test one can give to any system is that of 3D content or CADCAM developement. In a heartbeat, the flaws & weaknesses will be revealed. I've had Intel based boards & AMD based ones running and crunching numbers continiously for up to 2 years before "something" will go. Such are the nature of machines. The score so far ? 6 Intels down vs.1 AMD and that AMD went down due to the power supply going by way of the ghost in very big way. The Intels somehow to me just can't survive in my environment in any configuration for anything but a year at most. Both have had the benefit of top notch boards and chipsets with substantially ventilated cases and beefed-up power supplies, being used in ideal conditions.

I can say personally that at home where it counts for me the most, the AMD is/has been rock solid for me.

To those who will build a new system with either, I offer this advice -

1- Do your homework. Research "what" you are buying and "why" it fits your needs.
2- Buy a good system case with a "wide overhead" for superior cooling and then only any required features.
3- Don't skimp on power supplies. Provide a 20% greater overhead of any true requirement to be safe.
4- Choose your memory, storage & graphic choices carefully. These will determine your eventual fate.
5- Don't invest in the "bleeding edge" latest, greatest. The survivors are few & the issues many for a time.
6- Do not overlook the real advantages of "power conditioning". It will double the lifespan of most any system.
7- Cost & value "are not" the same thing. With most any moderen components you will get what you pay for.
8- Do not be afraid to ask questions about a purchase and do not be afraid to ask the same questions of more than a few people. I find the motives of most sales people to be driven by the agenda of the sellers and not the agenda of whats best for a particular buyer's need.


Asus A7N8X -E deluxe socket A - nVidia nForce 2 Chipset
AMD Athlon XP 3200+ [2.2]
2x1024MB DDR Matched Samsung RAM [2048MB]
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 256 DDR3 - 2x DVI
2x Samsung Syncmaster 19" 930b TFT-LCD Flatscreen monitors
Antec P160 Case
Antec TPII-550 Power supply
2x Antec Smart Cool, Pro 80mm DBB fans
VRp-5000 Precision Voltage regulator


Courtney English May 29, 2005, 11:22am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: AMD chipsets, quirky by nature?
Please bear with me gentlemen/ladies. I have a 550 Mhz Intel processor on a Gigabyte GA - BX 2000 Mobo. Yes time to upgrade.

I had already chosen the AMD 64 3200 Socket 939. I am now convinced. Now I need a mobo with the best supporting chipset (as highlighted by Sanders)

I started reading this string from the beginning. I wasn't able to read it all. I am a novice as you can tell.

I'm not concerned about the perfection of graphics (currently have an AGP card) but I need a board that will support a sound module via a sound card. I know that most new mobos have up to 6 channel audio. I don't need anything fancy at all. I Just want to be able to hear the music I put together.

I currently use an old Soundblaster 64 Gold soundcard with a game port and phono outlets that allows me to attach a soundmodule/keyboard to put music together using a music program all coming out of my normal speakers via my amplifier. I now need a mobo that will allow me to do the same. One site suggested a 754 socket for a 939 AMD 64 (Doh).

Thats basically it. A compatible mobo for a AMD 64 3200 with the best supporting chipset. I quite like the idea of a dual bios, but I will welcome advice from you pros. I know that Asus are good. I just want to make sure I get all the right components before I put them all together. I'm aware of the right power supply and case with correct ventilation. Perhaps someone can advise me further.

Can anyone condescend to my needs. Please. Thanks in advance Oh this is the first time I've posted on a forum.

(I run office 2003/CD write/Internet/download music hear and there)



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