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/ Forums / ATI's MultiVPU solution, don't get caught in the c...
 

 
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Supreet Virdi Jun 01, 2005, 05:29pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
And exactly how long that wire is?

Well I searched it but couldn't find it again, I've read that external dongle is better than "SLI Bridge" and is there for ultra high bandwidth for faster cards, although I am sure ATI know what they are doing.

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mothow Jun 01, 2005, 05:36pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?cat=grfx&id=378&...genumber=3
looks like Crossfire is faster depending on how they got those number's

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jake Jun 01, 2005, 05:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 

Error 34:
There was no error
Supreet Virdi Jun 01, 2005, 05:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Yes, it is tomie, and that's what i've been saying from "quite time".... its a "technology" well implemented by ATI...and ITS JUST a begnining just wait and see how they optimizes their drivers to take FULL USE of it..and u'll see things flying. !

And that is JUST a "rough" benchmark, just wait and see ;)


Edit:

jake SLI bridge really gets hot sometimes, very hot indeed, and no the "Secondary" does that work and "Master" card gives the final output.

Sander Sassen Jun 01, 2005, 06:32pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Supreet,

If I didn't know any better I'd label you as a fanATIc, you're usually pretty down to earth and don't seem to be affected by company PR or very early benchmarks, but I do think you're suffering from a bad case of the ATI fever. I'll give you the same advice as I gave in another thread about this very same topic; don't get worked up about new technology until you have seen objective benchmarks from an objective source, preliminary benchmarks from early models shown at trade shows are not a good indication of actual performance.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
Sander Sassen Jun 01, 2005, 06:38pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Oh, and Supreet SLI bridges don't get hot at all, they're comprised of two connectors and a small PCB with a few traces carrying nothing but logic signals, no power, hence they don't get hot. Any alleviated temperatures of the SLI bridge can only be attributed to the close proximity of the heatsink of the GPU which will, by natural convection and the fact that hot air rises, heat up the SLI bridge. This is in NO way hampering performance or a drawback of some sort as you seem necessary to pitch it.

From an engineering point of view, as Raymond correctly pointed out, an internal PCB connecting the two cards directly is the shortest signal path and therefore the best solution from a signal propagation and signal delay point of view. But also in terms of EMC susceptibility and connector wear and tear this is a far more elagant solution, as you'd like to keep the signal path short and out of harms way, ie. short and as close to the source as possible.

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
jake Jun 01, 2005, 07:12pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
as far as emc is concernd i would say the external cable is the best way to do it because the cable is sheilded from the strong e-feilds created by the compoents inside the computer case, these e-feilds are further reduced by the grounded metal case. to make the situation even better the cable most proberly has some ferrite in the connectors to reduce any standing waves created by the em interference. the internel one although proberly does not suffer from emi is subject to higher intensity e-fields and is more prone to interference, but again this shouldnt be a problem becasue the tracks shouldnt resonant at the same frequency as any of the pc's components or the frequency of the signal which being transmitted

Error 34:
There was no error
OCGW Jun 01, 2005, 07:48pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Throughout electronic history, there has been a move to change descrete wiring, or (components) to pcb to save space, & also recently to avoid latency

That is how it is, ATI's (less than elegant) dongle, is probably a move to avoid paying patent fees

IMHO

OCGW

PEACE

Harrison Someone Jun 02, 2005, 03:32am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
I'd like to pull up what jake had said about the SLI and Crossfire differences.

If it's true, that SLI's bridge makes the cards do the dividing of the work load. Wouldn't it take up the cards GPU speed to determine what goes where? But what if the processor on the computer split it up, leaving the GPUs to do their job. Wouldn't that be better? I'm not sure which would really be better, or if there is any difference at all. Just putting out the questions.

jake Jun 02, 2005, 05:41am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
well the work load balencing could be done on a different chip to the main gpu, and then the performance of the two gpus shouldnt suffer

Error 34:
There was no error
Supreet Virdi Jun 02, 2005, 06:10am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Sander, I read it somewhere about the heat with SLI bridge, but as u pointed it out, so I could be wrong, but external dongle is "not" a bottleneck, ATI know exactly what they are doing.

You can say me ATI FAN boy know, as I am tired and sick of people hailing Nvidia for some "odd" "wierd" reasons...they say ATI cards runs hot, they say Nvidia chip is superior when it comes to overclocking, they say Nividia has Shader Model 3 support which "GIVES" much more detail, they say Nvidia is GOD, ATI is pathetic right?

Just love the way AMD and ATI implement technologies. ;)

I can see Sander, u only read MY posts only....good work though...I like u Sander u r ver professional ;)

Thermalfreak Jun 02, 2005, 06:10am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Well load balancing is dont by the drivers so it uses up some cpu clockspeeds, not alot but GPUs themselves dont decide.....ati though doesnt have any load balancing.....it just splits it with the 32 tiles across the board that will hopefully get ~50% load on each gfx card .... that plus alternate frame rendering

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
Thermalfreak Jun 02, 2005, 08:50am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Hmm all that the dongle does is send the images its processed to the second hard so that the master card's images can be combined together using the chip on the master card....seems like no reason for any bottlenecks....

The sli bridge has current going through it, though so does a USB cable :p PCBs get warm all the time, not the kind of heat one has to worry about though...sure it warms up but it doesnt (cant?) have any effect on it...

Ive snapped:
An xbox360 and a 12" iBook....
And a kawasaki er-6n to mod instead
varun rao Jun 02, 2005, 11:54am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Even though the work done by the dongle sounds simple... its something without which u cant get the final image.. so its significant. I'd like to quote somebody on HWA (I dont remember who) "ur computer is only as fast as the slowest component."

The work of the fuel injector in an automobile engine is quite simple.. the solenoid just opens and closes letting fuel into the inlet manifold... the engine is doing all the work of creating suction , burning the fuel, converting spontaneous combustion into rotary motion of the flywheel. BUT if the injector is slow to react to engine demands... pistons start to reciprocate without a combustion stroke or a very inadequate one robbing the engine of a lot of horse power.... In a final assembly there is NO insignificant component since there isnt a parellel path. The component is there in the system cause it facilitates information/power flow. Get rid of it and the system comes to a grinding halt.

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Outdated
jake Jun 02, 2005, 02:42pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
sure if you get rid of it then the current system will come to a grinding halt, but only with this design, if they used a different design then the external dongle could have been done away with.

Error 34:
There was no error
OCGW Jun 02, 2005, 03:07pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
An external connector for 2 components inside the case is just plain "Tacky", an "eye sore"

They could have had the same type of data communication internally, but they cut corners because they didn't think ppl would mind

IMHO

Hell, I hate that my ATI TV WONDER VE has an audio out that has to connect externally to my sound card, that is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeally "Tacky"

I don't need more "spagetti" on the back of my comp, that 'birds nest" already looks like s**t

OCGW

PEACE

Bungle Jun 06, 2005, 05:33pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
"Do you know...how "HOT" SLI bridge gets?"

actually its not "HOT" at all, there are no chips on the bridge... its just some wires on a piece of PCB so there is nothing to generate heat on the bridge.

And to those of you saying that "ATI's external dongle is faster than nVidias internal connector" the speed that data is transfered over a wire has more to do with the chips "talking" on the ends of the wire then the wire itself.

Core i7 4770K @ 4.4GHz | Corsair H110 | Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H | 32GB 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance
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Shadow_Ops_Airman1 Jun 12, 2005, 03:41am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
hmm this makes me think, perhaps VIA and Intel Need to have Dual PCI Express 16 Arch that each slot has 16 channels even when under Dual Graphics Hookup, plus advantage would be that you have a Chipset that is universal that supports both Crossfire and SLI Architectures, so you dont have to buy a Nvidia or ATI based Chipset Motherboard out there and also supports the Latest CPUs out there (Venice, Sandiego, X2, Pent-D/EE)

AMD Athlon XP-M 2500+ (133x14= 1867MHz) (209x11= 2299MHz)
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CL SB XFi Xtreme Music
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Rude Boy Jun 21, 2005, 05:54am EDT Report Abuse
>> 
bla bla bla, It's all hype.

The fact is that SLI/Crossfire needs two propietary video cards, a proprietary connector of some sort, a proprietary mainboard with the chipsets that are capable, a special BIOS and 2 free PCI-E x16 slots which may come in handy down the road for other peripherals. And here's another point no-one seems to get in the debate over SLI vs. Crossfire. A single 6800GT or X850 will give you plenty of power to play the latest and up-coming games without any compromise in game performance. Furhtermore, two 6600GT's in SLI gives only a slight improvemet over one 6800GT at a much higher cost than the sinlge card solution.

I believe that SLI and Crossfire were born to showcase the potential of PCI-Express but will ultimately fall by the wayside like the 3D-FX cards that came out when the original PCI bus became widely implemented over ISA.

Same crap, different decade.

P.S. Why do I want to spend over $500-1500 on 2 graphics cards without including the cost of the SLI/Crossfire mainboard, when Half-life2, Doom3, FarCry and almost any other title on this planet will play well on my little 9800Pro for a fraction of the cost.


OCGW Jun 21, 2005, 04:44pm EDT Report Abuse
>> 
Well stated Rude Boy

IMHO

OCGW

PEACE


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