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  Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI 
 
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Supreet Virdi Sep 21, 2005, 02:37am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
The thing is, it should've been avoided at any cost, what happened is totally un-acceptable, we cannot expect such things from professionals, especially if an individuial is a Technical Journalist and other is Manager in a well respected company.




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samson sassoon Sep 21, 2005, 10:55am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
I would like to say a few things

Sanders is a freelance journalist and he is not bound to always give positive feedback on everything that ATI does.

ATI on the other hand is a reputable corporate organisation .The managers in such organisation share a far more greater responsibility and professionalism is expected .

Mr Bania gunning for Sanders proves 1 thing that they also know that Sanders articles are trustworthy and credible.

If I though that Sanders was a lier why would I go to the extent to proving him wrong .If ATI is confident about there work they do not have anything to worry.So, in this regard it does seem that it is more of a personal rift between the two.

Although ,Sanders also perfectly timed his article and if I were to go by his article (with or without disclaimer) i would think that the ATI card is crap .

Mr Bani has stooped low by showing off personal emails .How many of us during our daily work write such emails .If these emails were taken up for credibility tomorrow all of us would fail it.

I must thank Sanders for coming out in the open and explaining the whole situation
I sincerely hope that you will continue writing unbiased articles about ATI even if they shun you out

Samson

Aleks Micovic Sep 21, 2005, 05:02pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
Job well done Sander.

I was thoroughly entertained by this article. It impresses me to see how you kept your head cool, and not go on a flaming rant like Andrzej did. This issue should have never went to a global level, but it did. Your way of dealing with this issue is truly inspiring. You flatly contradict every lie Andzrej tells us in the Beyond3D forums, and you do it with clear-cut facts. While on the other hand, Andzrej does not produce one iota of evidence that can discredit you in any way.

Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading your next article.

- Aleks

Promethius Sep 22, 2005, 07:09pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
I'm out of words... I'm really dissapointed in ATI, I once was a big fan of them, but price and performance lured me to NVIDIA. And to attack someone personally. Thats just not right. It's childish and unprofessional. People like that shouldn't be working there. In fact, companies who treat people like this should not be supported.

ATI should get a grip and pull themselves together, or they might get much bigger problems to worry about than Sander Sassen...

As for Sander, keep up the good work!!!

-----
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ankur313 Sep 22, 2005, 09:32pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
We all know that both parties have been at fault, at some point and therefore the best solution is to kiss and makeup.

I am sure ATI don't want to estrange themselves from a popular forum like "Hardware Analysis" and "Hardware Analysis" would like to work with ATI so they can bring us the latest info on ATI GCards.

And i think both these parties should use this public forum to solve their differences in a professional manner, instead of the sending each other rude & childish emails. These are two very well respected businesses and it makes sense for them to solve their differences.


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Mikie Sep 23, 2005, 05:14am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
I actually registered to post this, for no other reason that to call Mr. Sassen childish and immature. I understand the need to provide the news, however this should have never grown to this.

I am sure Mr. Sassen is happy at his point being sent all over the net, but honestly this types of issues are only resolved if everything is posted. His comments about share price and what he wants to see, is nothing more then elitist crap.

He thinks this site is so much better than any other site on the web and that is not a great thought, while I have enjoyed his rant/reviews, I have been dropping by this site less and less. There is no quantity and now the quality is lacking.

The truth is maybe he has received a reality check and his spot is no longer as high as he would like it to be. The ability to demand a piece of yet released hard ware, and when counter offered to review other items as well, he turns it down and again demands what I want or nothing. Come on. I expect better.

This is not to say ATI is clean in this, just as ATI's postings about this were "cleansed", I am sure there is much more to this story than being presented, from either side.

I welcome Mr. Sassen to explain or clairify, why he could not just say, thanks for the offer, but I decline, and leave it at that. Just a note to explaine why he really saw fit to post this and what I am sure was many other dissenting opinions to serve to further fuel the incident, that really matters to very few other people.

It is tough being told you are not good enough, and ATI is just as guilty. They need to get the product out there and they need reviews, but I am sure for ATI to release the next chip and card, they have many people waiting in line.

That is all I had to say on this issue, and just so no one thinks I am just a fringe elecment, I have been around Mr. Sassen since the days of Hardwarecentral.com and his split from the boards there.

I welcome any comments.
Mikie


Sander Sassen Sep 23, 2005, 05:20am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
Mikie,

You should really try to read some of the posts here prior to posting your reply, I think another member said it best when he made the below quoted post, especially take note of the last sentence of the 2nd paragraph:

"The problem with most people is that they tend to not read a post fully, or an article fully, prior to making up their minds. And of course it is far easier to just believe the negative spin of some company than the lone individual that has exposed them to lie and cheat and start a smear campaign. Rest assured that I would also not be supportive of Sander's article if it indeed was meant to smythe ATI. He however discloses all the information he has and provided PRELIMINARY(!) benchmarks of a PREPRODUCTION(!) card that was NOT(!) tested by himself and he provided a DISCLAIMER(!) to me that just shows he's covered every base, no need to attack the person.

Frankly ATI has succeeded to spin the attention away from the scores mentioned in the article and on Sander as a person, which is a clear sign of bad ethics in my book. Andrzej Bania continues to this day to respin claims Sander has already PROVEN(!) false, yet people simply ignore this. Bania continues to smear Sander, ridicule him, whereas Sander has done everything he can to stay HONEST and OPEN about what happened. If you have not fully read his rebuttal following Andrzej Bania's post I frankly don't think you have the right to post here, or anywhere else, regarding this topic.

Again, keep up the good work Sander,

---
Jason Silverman"

Regards,

Sander Sassen
Editor in Chief - Hardware Analysis
ssassen@hardwareanalysis.com
guru Shane Sep 23, 2005, 06:30am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
My reply to Mikie and his quotes:

"I actually registered to post this, for no other reason that to call Mr. Sassen childish and immature. I understand the need to provide the news, however this should have never grown to this."

++++If this is so childish, then how does it become such a priority that you suddenly felt the need to register just to post your worthless comments? You are just like the rest of the PUNKS that see an opportunity to take a jab at someone, and do so without reading everything that has occurred. Honestly, registering just so you can criticize someone really shows your maturity level, so I wouldn't be so quick to make snap judgements about someone else, if I were you.

"I am sure Mr. Sassen is happy at his point being sent all over the net, but honestly this types of issues are only resolved if everything is posted. His comments about share price and what he wants to see, is nothing more then elitist crap."

++++Everything was posted. If you had not been so lazy and actually read the reply and followed the links, you would know this. His comment about the share prices were obviously made in anger, but it was an e-mail. I've seen spam that was more offensive. Retaliating to this by publishing the e-mail all over the net is the childish part.

"He thinks this site is so much better than any other site on the web and that is not a great thought, while I have enjoyed his rant/reviews, I have been dropping by this site less and less. There is no quantity and now the quality is lacking."

++++Why are you talking about him and not to him? Are you not bold enough to be straight forward, even over the Internet?? Do you even have a clue about the number of hits this site gets? If 10,000 people don't buy an ATI card because of that article, then ATI is getting what it deserves. If they had released the card when they said they were going to, they wouldn't be facing this problem now. They are liars, and they have kids on their staff. They have no real leadership. They publicly try to humiliate journalists that create articles that do not show ATI in the best light. Should I go on? Is any of what I have said not true? I can back it up with Google. The only thing that might be questionable is the kids on their staff part, but honestly only children behave like that. Professional adults conduct business in a professional manner. There was nothing professional about their manner.

"The truth is maybe he has received a reality check and his spot is no longer as high as he would like it to be. The ability to demand a piece of yet released hard ware, and when counter offered to review other items as well, he turns it down and again demands what I want or nothing. Come on. I expect better."

++++If you ask me, it looks as if ATI got a reality check. They are not so big that they can't be put in their place. I think that it's great that Sander stood up to them and looked very good doing it. Most people don't like it when big corporations try to bully people around. I think that it is unfortunate that you would come here with the one purpose of backing ATI.

"This is not to say ATI is clean in this, just as ATI's postings about this were "cleansed", I am sure there is much more to this story than being presented, from either side."

++++I see. ATI isn't clean, but there has to be some sort of excuse for their behavior. Please kindly stick that stupidity somewhere else.

"I welcome Mr. Sassen to explain or clairify, why he could not just say, thanks for the offer, but I decline, and leave it at that. Just a note to explaine why he really saw fit to post this and what I am sure was many other dissenting opinions to serve to further fuel the incident, that really matters to very few other people."

Do you even really care? It appears that you have done what you came to do.

"It is tough being told you are not good enough, and ATI is just as guilty. They need to get the product out there and they need reviews, but I am sure for ATI to release the next chip and card, they have many people waiting in line."

++++Anyone who waits in line for a video card for 6 months after its announced release date is an idiot. That's not even taking into account the fact that it is now 1/2 of the card that it was supposed to be. If it is out when someone has the money, that's all good. But, if someone has been saving $700 since April for this specific card, that is EXTREMELY pathetic. I don't think there are as many people that are willing to "wait in line" for a time period that long as you might be inclined to think.

"That is all I had to say on this issue, and just so no one thinks I am just a fringe elecment, I have been around Mr. Sassen since the days of http://Hardwarecentral.com and his split from the boards there."

++++It wouldn't surprise me if you were on ATI's payroll for that length of time, either.

Dublin_Gunner Sep 23, 2005, 06:50am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
To Further back up Sander, and with regard to the points noted in Sanders post,

Mikie, it also appears you did not read the article posted by Sander that this whole thread is about.

Meaning, Sanders reply and rebuttle.

Sander does indeed go into detail about the other offers made to him by Mr. Bania, and indeed discloses the reasons for which he could not attend.

Also, personal as they may be, (and by no means did Sander need to tell everyone that he had planned a romantic getaway with his girlfriend), he still explained why he could not attend.

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a pagle Sep 23, 2005, 11:21am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
This is what happens when two people get into a p**sing match...........or at least one person perceives it to be a p**sing match and the other has to spend hours explaining things that should be obvious.

With the amount of turnover in my business, it's rare that you establich a long term working relationship with anybody. When you do, it is almost tragic to lose it. Sander seemed to have that with his previous contact at ATI. I doubt he will be able to have that same kind of relationship with this @$$hat. The sad thing is that this guy will probably get a promotion.

And before everyone jumps all over me and defends this ATI rep you must acknowledge this simple fact: no matter what Sander did, the ATI rep did not handle this in a professional manner. This is completely unaccepatle behavior from a person in his position. As a company representative he must take the morale high road in all situations.

I think if this person told Sander up front: "Hey, I know the ??? article isn't your normal cup of tea, but, we need some press about this. I'd consider it a personal favor and make sure send you R520 info as soon as possible." Sander would have probably wrote the article.

If Sander declined then he could have said: "I know there is a lot of excitment surrounding the release of the R520, but, we have other products to sell and it's important for those products to receive some attention. I'm sorry that you wont be able to write an article about the (whatever the hell that thing was.) Your ability to reach a large audience with this information would be invaluable to us. I would ask you to reconsider. I may not be able to get you the R520 info as soon as I had hoped. The ??? is my immediate priority and if I need to spend time finding another writer, I won't be able to invest as much time gathering info on the R520 for you."

I think that's a nice way of saying scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Or the guys just could have been up front about it.


The Saint Sep 24, 2005, 08:04pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
*** "If Sander declined then he could have said: "I know there is a lot of excitment surrounding the release of the R520, but, we have other products to sell and it's important for those products to receive some attention. I'm sorry that you wont be able to write an article about the (whatever the hell that thing was.) Your ability to reach a large audience with this information would be invaluable to us. I would ask you to reconsider. I may not be able to get you the R520 info as soon as I had hoped. The ??? is my immediate priority and if I need to spend time finding another writer, I won't be able to invest as much time gathering info on the R520 for you.""

--- That's a clear hypocrisy and a lie. Nothing more, nothing less. Todays world is full of it :-(

Blood Brother Sep 24, 2005, 11:39pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
well the final conclusion is ATI management sucks

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Trenchcoat Sep 25, 2005, 11:15pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
if ATI wants to treat people like this, then i assume they don't want my business, and i will be happy to ablige.
and when enough people ablige in like manner, ATI will go out of business. what a business tactic: telling customers that they are cut off... after all, Sander may run a website and review many products, but he is still a customer.

i, for one, refuse to do business with businesses who treat their customers poorly, and to think, Sander was MUCH more than a customer. and when someone high up in the business treats people this way, he earns a very low place off my respect list...

ATI, be careful who you pee on, he may just happen to be an electric fence...

i can see it now,when you sue the electric fence you peed on for electrocuting you, the judge will tell you to stop peeing on electric fences, and sentence you to the funny farm...
_________________

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guru Shane Sep 26, 2005, 08:13am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
Nice one Trenchcoat. :) I hope they are all taking this one in over there at ATI.

a pagle Sep 26, 2005, 11:37am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
--- That's a clear hypocrisy and a lie. Nothing more, nothing less. Todays world is full of it

Thanks for leaving the last part out Saint. You know the part where I said "or he could have just been upfront about the whole thing"

My point is that the ATI rep didn't tell Sander in advance that getting R520 info was contingent upon him writing an article on something else or attending a meeting about something else. These reasons were given after the fact. That is a weak excuse.

If the ATI guy had given him the hint ahead of time or just flat out told him, then I'm sure Sander would jump through an extra hoop or two.

I see no hipocrasy in these statements nor do I see them as lies. It is my assumption on what actions Sander would have taken, had he been given more information. An opinion is just that.

phil Sep 26, 2005, 11:45am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
sander ,

first rate!!
keep showing class, i've gone back and read up as much as i can.. (alot of spare time at work) keep standing your ground, those 2 clowns over at ati are just that... clowns.

who knows this all otta help in shaking up ati, and turn the company back around with new top brass.

---
can't access HWA unless I use a proxy... lol

pfft ..f**k that! (almost sounds like work)
Rooin Sep 26, 2005, 03:05pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Slander Sander? No

================================================================
"Even Satan wouldn't use customer service as a form of punishment." - Lucas http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com
Lawrence Heffernan Sep 26, 2005, 03:23pm EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
Just put the word Allegedly infront of what you want to say, hey, it works for Have I Got News.

George Bush has had a long running homosexual relationship with a penguin, allegedly.

I think ATi had no right to get p**sy, you can't expect that all reviews will be positive, otherwise what's the point of constructive criticism. It can't be "You can say whatever you want, aslong as it's exactly what we want you to say" - that runs against what a competitive corporate environment is all about

Edit - Misspelt penguin

ioneabee Sep 27, 2005, 05:06am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
would this have have anything to do with all this P*ssing match

http://forums.hexus.net/showthread.php?t=54629http://forums.he...hp?t=54629

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starfox x Sep 27, 2005, 10:10am EDT Report Abuse
>> Re: Re: Slander Sander? A reply to ATI
What a BIG mess...

I am sure Nvidia Engineers are reading these post and smiling to themselves...

Whether or not these results are true or *fake* it has done a lot of damage to ATI new range of cards.

Personal emails shouldn't be posted on forums when 1000's / millions of people can read them. Fair enough you may have issues with people but this process isn't professional and infact has cause more harm than good.

have fun. :)





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